As a DPS main, I implore Bliz not to nerf D.va like in PTR

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Highly Rated
As a DPS main who play 76/Reaper/Ana and other characters that D.va can go toe to toe against in a 1v1, Bliz should really ease the nerf bat on her, and see how the Ana nerf plays out before nerf her again. Playing her on PTR and listen to pros like Emongg of Selfless Gaming talking about how fragile D.va is right now is really making me worry for the state of D.va, who have been stuck in the dumpster tier for a large part of the game until recently.

Here's my (and a lot of other's) reasons:

Firstly, D.va excelled in shutting down damage and ults, while also providing superior 1v1 capability. As annoying as getting my visor blocked by the Matrix, or losing a 1v1 as Reaper the premier tankbuster of the game, I understand that there's a need for a character like her who can provide various counterplay. She's a harasser tank, someone who use her superior 1v1 capability to pick apart enemy team and create space for the friendly team to push/hold objective etc etc. She filled a niche in the game and the nerf will take away her capability of fulfilling the niche. 400 health with only 200 armor makes her just a glorified Winston with an extra 100 armor, and in a team fight and 1v1 against high DPS character like 76 or Reaper, it is nothing at all.

The next reason is that right now on live, she's the most reliable in taking out cheese like Bastion/Torb/Symmetra, while also providing the counter to 76 who is the premier DPS of this meta. Now, she never dies with a good Ana, which is a problem but D.va with any other healer is just as squishy as any other tanks. Playing D.va with Mercy or Zen is just an exercise in fultility. She is just as squishy as any other tanks if there isn't an Ana behind pumping darts into their !@#. And just in case someone forget, D.va was in the !@#$ter for the large part of the 3 tanks meta thru out most of its iteration until very recently. The only time in the past that D.va was in play was after the initial shield rework, and then it got nerf because apparently doing one tap with it is not right. Just revert D.va to the initial shield rework and i think she should be somewhat of a balanced state (assuming the Ana nerf come through). Nobody was complaining about her health or her DM being OP until recently with the way she synergize with Ana.

The third reason, is that as it is right now, if Bliz go through with the nerf, then it is an indirect buff to Zarya/Reaper/76/Torb/Symmetra, as the nerf make her capability to neutralize damage and 1v1 diminished greatly, which is one of her strength. Unless Blizzard wants a. 76's spot in the meta become even more dominant, b. no reliable counter to cheese strategy that make lower elo plays hell for people and c. a return to Rein/Zarya dominant meta that Blizzard worked hard to avoid via multiple nerf to Zarya, then right now they need to ease up on the nerf bat and see how things play out first.

I hope a dev sees this and talk to the balancing team to rebalance the patch. Right now it seems like you guys are doing way too much to tilt the meta back without considering the repurcussion of other characters and general state of the game as a whole.
Bump
Highly Rated
people who play ptr usually came to the same conclusion as you.
ana will still carry the meta on her back and zarya will replace dva
hog is in a strange spot where he became the tank killer because of how hook 2.0 work on fast mobile flankers that can abuse los to break the chain. the cc into 1hit kill is still too good to give up i think
anyone who plays the ptr knows nano visor is also a HUGE problem
Jan 9 -102
It is I golden plants here to tell you that bumping is not allowed. And it is I who will tell you that you're post will sink into the abyss. As there are too many current topics covering the same thing. Saturation is not good.
Highly Rated
Nice post. And you're not even a D.Va main, look at that! Guess nobody gets to comment "salty d.va main" in this thread.

Where are the devs? Are you guys reading any feedback??? Or are you just going to ignore all that's being said and just pretend that everything is fine? Wake up!
Highly Rated
If people are even somewhat competent at playing a DPS they can demech me super easily with superior range and movement speed while firing. I'm not even talking on the PTR.

What I'm saying is the OP is right and the Devs' reasons for nerfing Dva is misdirected at best.
Highly Rated
You know what, seeing the OP finally makes me want to come forward with my opinion. I tend to play support, mostly Lucio, otherwise it is most of the tank role, but only as of late.

WARNING: Lots of rambling ahead.

Now, I have yet to get on the PTR to test out the changes personally, but I think if the changes go through, then D.Va might drop down to the pickrate she had in S2. Probably worse if she is indeed as frail as people say. And trust me, when I was playing S2, it was very rare for me to see D.Va, nor did it seem like it was worth picking her up.

When the buff hit, I finally gave her a serious chance, and man, was I surprised how much she fits my playstyle. And before anyone types comments about the D.Va that can 1v6 the enemy team, all of the two times I tried that ended in abrupt failure. No, I like staying with the team and keeping them alive, while having the option to turn aggro when needed. Clearly my history with Lucio even impacts me when I tank.

She definitely feels like she has a lot of options. She can deal a decent amount of damage, albeit in a very unreliable fashion. She can position herself more precisely than Winston, and her Defense Matrix is good for catching burst damage, and the occasional ult (although you have to be lucky to catch most of them.) She feels powerful with the mech, but the only time she ever felt overpowered is when she is being pocketed by Ana. Any other healer and I find myself playing defensively, otherwise I start to melt very quickly.

Now, I have observed this from the outside as well. Playing Lucio has made me hypersensitive to the healthpools of my team. I can't help but notice D.Va being below half health or out of mech most of the time I am solo healing, and this is after the buff. The difference in surviveability is huge when we lack a Mercy or Ana, especially if we lack Ana.

So from my experience, both from playing her and supporting her, I am inclined to say that healing drastically improves her surviveability. I am for the Ana nerfs, if anything, they are a little too gentle, but I will have to go to the PTR to test it myself.

The D.Va nerfs kind of confuse me though, because swapping armor and health like that seems like a drastic change, especially when coupled with the damage nerf. Again, she is going to rely even harder on healers to stay in mech, except, she does not benefit nearly enough from it to be justifiable, if what other support mains say is true.

I am afraid that if the changes come though, As D.Va I will no longer be able to protect my team, especially if I die as quickly as people say I will. As Lucio or any other support, I am afraid I will simply not be able to heal her enough for people to win games with her. I mean, it may not even be a problem, since she is going back to a point where her statistics look worse than when she was a 'troll pick', I may only rarely have to heal her.

I have not been on the PTR, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I am probably going to get on sometime tomorrow, record all my matches with her as D.Va, Lucio, and Ana. Then I will review my footage and make a follow up post provided it does not exceed the post limit by the time I am finished.
I hope they dont nerf dva. I played some matches last night with dva and was getting wrecked so hard by a rein/zarya/hog team

(on live)
I wasn't able to get a game against actual people (because it is dead as heck)but I set up a 1 v1 with a bastion AI on hard in the ptr for custom game. Let him set up and everything to simulate an actual match as much as possible.

D.va can not reliably 1v1 him in turret mode unless he is significantly distracted for the majority of time or is caught reloading while you are shooting him. Not enough damage is dealt to him in time for when he de-mechs you to finish him with the pistol fight, and he essentially counters her 1v1 now, so she can't dive whatsoever and has to stick really close to the team.

In another custom match I was in front of the other friendly bots blocking damage let down my matrix to get some damage in and was de-meched before I could pull up the matrix again.

She can't operate whatsoever on the frontline without a rein shield, she can't dive to duel a bastion effectively enough to be a counter as she loses most of those 1v1 duels now consistently on top of her being focused fired in a team fight you can not dive with her. She can't take out bastion by herself most of the time then she can not dive onto a teams back line and expect to survive focus fire.

They should revert it back to the 500 400/100 armor/hp they had before if they are convinced it was too much or hold off on it till ana's tweaks go through.

D.va is unkillable when focused healed by ana because of the burst healing plus the armor being restored plus the defense matrix with the bio nade on top giving her ridiculous amounts of sustain. Ana needs the tweaks or how armor is healed needs tweaking if they believe they can't afford nerfing her nade any further.
01/09/2017 03:26 PMPosted by to0ty
people who play ptr usually came to the same conclusion as you.
ana will still carry the meta on her back and zarya will replace dva
hog is in a strange spot where he became the tank killer because of how hook 2.0 work on fast mobile flankers that can abuse los to break the chain. the cc into 1hit kill is still too good to give up i think
anyone who plays the ptr knows nano visor is also a HUGE problem


The next meta is for D.va or Hog to lose. Whoever came out of PTR the worst is going to be the one relegate back to dumpster tier. Meanwhile it took the dev like ages to take care of the real issue which is Ana. Hog and D.va by themselves wasn't the problem.

If D.va lose though, I can already see a couple of D.va main go on suicide watch (or just play Mercy because playing as any other characters is hard lol)

01/09/2017 04:48 PMPosted by Shame
I hope they dont nerf dva. I played some matches last night with dva and was getting wrecked so hard by a rein/zarya/hog team

(on live)


Right now Ana and D.va synergize so well that playing D.va with any other healer is just a losing proposition. Mercy can't burst heal effective enough and Zen's heal is too little. Without Ana, she is just as vulnerable as any other tank, even with the increased health.

01/09/2017 03:44 PMPosted by GumshoeJump
If people are even somewhat competent at playing a DPS they can demech me super easily with superior range and movement speed while firing. I'm not even talking on the PTR.

What I'm saying is the OP is right and the Devs' reasons for nerfing Dva is misdirected at best.


They are trying to curb the dominant of D.va but it feels like they are not aiming at the cause (Ana) but rather the symptoms (Roadhog, D.va). The funny part is that the competitive community in OW had been talking about this quite a bit but apparently Bliz dev only soliciting opinions from casuals players instead of the one that actually invested time, blood and sweat into the game. And that's not to mention the OW League thing in the future too. Right now they should really listen to the competitive scene more and adjust according. You need the hardcore audience to keep the games alive and attract the casuals, not the other way around.
D.Va's damage nerf is good, but her tanking HP/armor swap nerf is bad. You can't fix the tank meta unless you make tanks be more of a tank rather than DPS. Nerfing her tanking ability will only make it worse and simply just continue the tank meta really. Tanks do an amazing job at dps and are beefier than the actual dps characters. It's quite obvious.
Highly Rated
it's nice to know there are at least a few people who actually care about balance and not ONLY their own favorite heroes.

D.Va didn't need the extra hundred health (no one even asked for it, every d.va player I know wanted changes to her critbox). she's a bit too strong. but not so strong that she deserves the triple beatdown she's about to receive. Ana is the core of the problem but D.Va's going to be the one to pay for it, and it's not even going to make a difference because it'll just be Zarya taking her place.

I wish again for the thousandth time that blizzard wasn't too proud to ever admit they were wrong. then we could just do the sensible thing and roll back part or all of her last buff, instead of nerfing her in completely different ways
I'm sorry but she was top 5 in kda, elims, winrate, least deaths, damage blocked, damage dealt, medals per game, popularity, objective time, objective kills. Healing is the ONE category she wasn't a top 5 pick, and most of those are top 1 - 3.

Think about that for a second. D.Va was top 1 - 3 (damage was the lowest of all the categories listed at 5th place) in literally every category tracked except healing for this season in competitive.

Go ahead though and tell me she's supposed to be a jack of all trades.

edit: downvoted, okay, i'll take them. But tell me I'm wrong then. Show me numbers that go against what I said.
Everyone says that D.Va blocks Ults like a god.

But I did some checking into it and in all honesty, If you compare Rein to D.Va in terms of blocking a single ult head on using the Barrier Shield vs the DM

Rien actually wins. He blocks 13 Ults if faced head on (assuming the shield isnt circumnavigated)

Where D.Va blocks 11, but 3 of those she cant block completely. (Ex: Tactical Visor lasts 6s, where DM lasts 4s, or Tank Config lasts 8s)

Assuming full Drain on both their shielding tactics, Rein has a full 1s longer recharge from empty.

Both cant attack while their Shields are engaged, but D.Va doesn't get the movement penalty (she instead gets that when she attacks)

Also Rien can block more than just projectiles, like Zarya's beam or Mei's Cryogenics. Which are D.Va's counters.

I mean to be brutally honest I don't see why people are upset about the DM, as it compares roughly similarly to the Barrier Shield, in fact, the DM can be seen as worse in a way, because she can have it out for a maximum of 4 seconds before it HAS to recharge, Rein can keep his shield out and up for the ready as long as he wants and isn't in any hurry.
01/09/2017 08:32 PMPosted by DexterousGek
I'm sorry but she was top 5 in kda, elims, winrate, least deaths, damage blocked, damage dealt, medals per game, popularity, objective time, objective kills. Healing is the ONE category she wasn't a top 5 pick, and most of those are top 1 - 3.

Think about that for a second. D.Va was top 1 - 3 (damage was the lowest of all the categories listed at 5th place) in literally every category tracked except healing for this season in competitive.

Go ahead though and tell me she's supposed to be a jack of all trades.


She has a pseudo-death ability that messes with kda, eliminations just need a single point of damage at the right time and she has an infinite-ammo spread weapon, and the spread also factors into getting lots of damage (plus shooting as a deterrent).

So, that's the source of two medals.

Then you go list medals per game...? That's not an independent category.
01/09/2017 08:35 PMPosted by TheRose
Everyone says that D.Va blocks Ults like a god.

But I did some checking into it and in all honesty, If you compare Rein to D.Va in terms of blocking a single ult head on using the Barrier Shield vs the DM

Rien actually wins. He blocks 13 Ults if faced head on (assuming the shield isnt circumnavigated)

Where D.Va blocks 11, but 3 of those she cant block completely. (Ex: Tactical Visor lasts 6s, where DM lasts 4s, or Tank Config lasts 8s)

Assuming full Drain on both their shielding tactics, Rein has a full 1s longer recharge from empty.

Both cant attack while their Shields are engaged, but D.Va doesn't get the movement penalty (she instead gets that when she attacks)

Also Rien can block more than just projectiles, like Zarya's beam or Mei's Cryogenics. Which are D.Va's counters.

I mean to be brutally honest I don't see why people are upset about the DM, as it compares roughly similarly to the Barrier Shield, in fact, the DM can be seen as worse in a way, because she can have it out for a maximum of 4 seconds before it HAS to recharge, Rein can keep his shield out and up for the ready as long as he wants and isn't in any hurry.


Except you're ignoring literally everything else about the heroes. Reinhardt dies more, does less damage, loses more games, gets less medals, etc. Being better in ONE category doesn't mean anything.
01/09/2017 08:35 PMPosted by TheRose
I mean to be brutally honest I don't see why people are upset about the DM, as it compares roughly similarly to the Barrier Shield, in fact, the DM can be seen as worse in a way, because she can have it out for a maximum of 4 seconds before it HAS to recharge, Rein can keep his shield out and up for the ready as long as he wants and isn't in any hurry.
for whatever reason, people absolutely refuse to adapt to it. I've never seen someone turn on tactical visor and just spray at a reinhardt and then get pissed OMG THAT BARRIER IS SUCH BULL!@#$ MAN. people also talk about it eating up things like mei's ice robot which almost never actually happens unless the mei is stupid. in fact the mei can 100% guarantee that d.va can't block it by throwing up a wall before throwing the robot. hanzo need only step behind any wall or obstacle to guarantee his to go off. for that matter, anyone can just fight the d.va first and wait till the matrix goes down just like you'd do with a reinhardt except d.va is maxxed out after only four fricken seconds. if a d.va eats your ult you deserved it.

I wonder if it's a macho thing. like when the big powerful german dude stops you it's fine but if the little girl beats you and makes a winky face OMG IM TILTED SO OP
01/09/2017 08:40 PMPosted by DexterousGek
01/09/2017 08:35 PMPosted by TheRose
Everyone says that D.Va blocks Ults like a god.

But I did some checking into it and in all honesty, If you compare Rein to D.Va in terms of blocking a single ult head on using the Barrier Shield vs the DM

Rien actually wins. He blocks 13 Ults if faced head on (assuming the shield isnt circumnavigated)

Where D.Va blocks 11, but 3 of those she cant block completely. (Ex: Tactical Visor lasts 6s, where DM lasts 4s, or Tank Config lasts 8s)

Assuming full Drain on both their shielding tactics, Rein has a full 1s longer recharge from empty.

Both cant attack while their Shields are engaged, but D.Va doesn't get the movement penalty (she instead gets that when she attacks)

Also Rien can block more than just projectiles, like Zarya's beam or Mei's Cryogenics. Which are D.Va's counters.

I mean to be brutally honest I don't see why people are upset about the DM, as it compares roughly similarly to the Barrier Shield, in fact, the DM can be seen as worse in a way, because she can have it out for a maximum of 4 seconds before it HAS to recharge, Rein can keep his shield out and up for the ready as long as he wants and isn't in any hurry.


Except you're ignoring literally everything else about the heroes. Reinhardt dies more, does less damage, loses more games, gets less medals, etc. Being better in ONE category doesn't mean anything.


Wasn't talking about the rest of them. Im talking the fact that D.Va's barrier isnt as good as everyone makes it out to be. I'm comparing Barrier to DM

Otherwise if you look into the two you also have to realize that they totally play different roles.

I mean just as the following goes:

She has a pseudo-death ability that messes with kda, eliminations just need a single point of damage at the right time and she has an infinite-ammo spread weapon, and the spread also factors into getting lots of damage (plus shooting as a deterrent).

So, that's the source of two medals.

Then you go list medals per game...? That's not an independent category.


He said it all. So accounting for 2 of those medals, that leaves dies more, where D.Va has the mech as a Psudo Death so that makes death count unreliable, leaving "Loses More Games" which in all honesty is up to WAY more factors than just the character themselves. Just because D.Va is in a team comp doesnt mean you're gonna have a better WR.

So yeah, I fail to see your point, but maybe thats just me.
01/09/2017 08:40 PMPosted by DexterousGek
01/09/2017 08:35 PMPosted by TheRose
Everyone says that D.Va blocks Ults like a god.

But I did some checking into it and in all honesty, If you compare Rein to D.Va in terms of blocking a single ult head on using the Barrier Shield vs the DM

Rien actually wins. He blocks 13 Ults if faced head on (assuming the shield isnt circumnavigated)

Where D.Va blocks 11, but 3 of those she cant block completely. (Ex: Tactical Visor lasts 6s, where DM lasts 4s, or Tank Config lasts 8s)

Assuming full Drain on both their shielding tactics, Rein has a full 1s longer recharge from empty.

Both cant attack while their Shields are engaged, but D.Va doesn't get the movement penalty (she instead gets that when she attacks)

Also Rien can block more than just projectiles, like Zarya's beam or Mei's Cryogenics. Which are D.Va's counters.

I mean to be brutally honest I don't see why people are upset about the DM, as it compares roughly similarly to the Barrier Shield, in fact, the DM can be seen as worse in a way, because she can have it out for a maximum of 4 seconds before it HAS to recharge, Rein can keep his shield out and up for the ready as long as he wants and isn't in any hurry.


Except you're ignoring literally everything else about the heroes. Reinhardt dies more, does less damage, loses more games, gets less medals, etc. Being better in ONE category doesn't mean anything.

Reinhardt blocks more than twice as much damage on average and gets more ult kills. Reinhardt only has 2 or 3 more deaths on average, but D.Va spends more time out of her mech than it takes Reinhardt to walk back from spawn three times.
01/09/2017 08:46 PMPosted by Wraith
01/09/2017 08:35 PMPosted by TheRose
I mean to be brutally honest I don't see why people are upset about the DM, as it compares roughly similarly to the Barrier Shield, in fact, the DM can be seen as worse in a way, because she can have it out for a maximum of 4 seconds before it HAS to recharge, Rein can keep his shield out and up for the ready as long as he wants and isn't in any hurry.


I wonder if it's a macho thing. like when the big powerful german dude stops you it's fine but if the little girl beats you and makes a winky face OMG IM TILTED SO OP


I told you. What have I been saying all my life

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