"I can't climb because bad teammates"

Competitive Discussion
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OK, I'll explain this again for the intellectually poor.

If you are a significantly better player you can play above the randomness of terrible matchmaking and therefore still carry.

If you are a better player (but not significantly) then you will be affected by this randomness. The match making is !@#$. There is a whole plethora of people across all ranks who do not belong where they are placed. This produces random games. So the only way out of this is to play so many games that statistically this randomness eventually works you out of it as the better player.

This will take MILLIONS+ OF GAMES due to the sheer amount of variables in overwatch (made significantly worse due to no solo queue). No-one plays this amount, so some get lucky, some get unlucky, and the entire ranking system falls apart for anyone who is not massively placed in the wrong rank and can therefore beat the outliers.
02/21/2017 09:22 PMPosted by ColdSnap
I do think it is funny for every thread that points out flaws there is a giant white knight thread with long paragraphs that reassures everyone the ranking system works great!


Its almost like its easier to blame someone or something else for all your problems rather than face up to reality or rational arguments.

"I cant climb even with all the games I play and I seem to lose a lot. MUST BE ALL THE RANDOM PLAYERS I RARELY PLAY WITH MORE THAN TWICE. Definitely isnt the only consistent things in all the games, myself."
I don't think it's so much about climbing as it is having 90% of losses feel like total rip-offs due to leavers, trolls, or simply incompetent teammates.
In the other 10% of lost matches, it's clear the enemy team was simply better at the game, and that's perfectly fine. That's how all losses should feel.

People don't expect to climb to GM just because a matchmaking system gets fixed (if they do, they're morons). They expect to play with teammates that are actually at their skill level and want to win equally as bad as they do, rather than have nearly every comp match be a gamble upon entry, and a burden to endure.

Unfortunately for many, in order for this "utopia" of ranked play to exist, a few variables have to be eliminated:

- cheaters, aimbotters, etc:
we need active cheat recognition to get these !@#$ers insta-banned.

- leavers/griefers:
put them in a pool with each other like Dota 2.

- more accurate ranking to reduce instances of:
- overrated teammates who are way out of their league
- smurfs: just ban them from comp. (smurfing in ranked is cheating, but that can be discussed elsewhere)

^ I'm sure these changes will never be made, but they are exactly what we need to minimize complaints about the quality of comp matches.

Rewarding grouped play would be the most practical way to get rid of the teammate blame, but i digress.
The "so and so didn't switch so we lost" followed by a ^^^^^
Sheep follow...

[/quote]Are you kidding? People are constantly blaming their teammates for losses instead of looking at themselves for improvement.[/quote]
I believe I was stuck in bronze because of my teammates. Once I started queuing with my friends I climbed up to plat. Many people in lower tiers belong there but quite a few don't.
it's not 100% the teammates fault, but there are some matches where you are giving your best and is doing pretty well, but still lose because some incompetent teammate on your side, it's those matches give people frustration. It's the inconsistency of match quality makes a bad experience, when that happens, you feel like every time you queue in competitive, you are essentially rolling a dice.
There is some truth to it. I play a lot of support and I've had many games with more than enough healing done and good ults yet we still lose. So, yes it does happen once in awhile.

Sometimes there are stretches where I just get stuck with disfunctional teammates. No one tanks is one of them or the stupid widow pick. Not only do they pick widow but then switch to tracer or Hanzo when they are absolutely garbage with them.

I've had my share of bad teammates.
so you're saying bad teammates don't exist...?
You cant climb because the season is over lol
You simply cannot play a carry hero in every match, not without resulting in a weak composition for your team. This combined with you often losing more from losses than you gain from wins is already stacking the deck in such way that it is not simply hindering you, but worse.

If you have even fairest amount of bad luck, you will get a nasty loss streak which can be really difficult to recover from. I did that during season 2 few times, but it wasn't really enjoyable. I was stuck at around 2850-3010 for most of the season, few times dipping to 2500 and then making my way back up.

Season 3 I placed around high 2800 and stayed between 2960 and 2800 for quite awhile, before getting one bad day that dropped me to 2600.

The fact of this game is that toxicity and uncooperative players are a constant in solo queue, they are far more numerous than the really nice and really cooperative players. Your loss streaks are far more likely to get extended by a toxic uncooperative player and win streaks cut by such a player, than your loss streaks are to be cut short by a nice and win streaks extended by a nice and cooperative player.

You will need to be really skilled and often a great DPS player to combat most of those negatives stacked against you. As great DPS player has easier time shining without support from a teammate than a great support/tank player.

You can sometimes have a lot of bad luck which will hit you down in a way that it is hard to recover from, not impossible but hard. I was hit hard on season 3 and I honestly simply lost interest at a certain point, I got out of the game for a month or two as I got tired of it. Sometimes you need to put a lot of time into it as any loss streak longer than two games, is bound to cause you to do a lot of backtracking, to your effort to recover.

The inconsistency is can truly annoying, the most efficient fix for it is to find a premade, but not all of us have the ability to play quite so regularly and the premades we find often will find someone more active to replace us.

They have every right to do so, but it does make the game less enjoyable for people like myself who are unable to keep a set coordinated premade for very long and the game's goal (as far as I know) is to be enjoyable for everyone.

Every game like this one will have the "git gud" crowds who think this is the only fix, in some cases it is. This game has a lot of difference characters and ways to play it. There's not just one way to progress in it or shouldn't be.

If only way to progress consistently in the game is to play mainly DPS, then that is bit dull.
02/22/2017 11:33 AMPosted by Apoth
so you're saying bad teammates don't exist...?


Will you be my bad team mate? :)
I like how many people who say: "Is your fault you are bad, you are where you belong"....are players above Diamond while people who say things like: "sometimes is hard when you get unbalanced teams, i can do everything if my team doesnt help.".....are below Platinium. Coincidence? I dont think so. The Ranking System is Broken and very unbalance putting players matches which or they rekt the enemy or get rekt; situations where you can be lvl 400 and be in a team with someone below lvl 100, being Platinium and getting a duo where one is Gold 2400 and the other Silver 1990, and many more examples. Of course this only happens in the below Ranks because past 3200 players take it serious, but yes, there can be 1 or 2 Trolls but you dont get them as often as Platinium and below. Players should look at each other and understand where each one comes from because the only thing i see is Diamond and above players talking trash at lower Rank and those lower Ranks insulting and blaming without giving reasons; but we all must know this: "The System is Broken and has been since Season 2 with the Solution only affecting people below Diamond making it harder for decent player who take the game serious."
02/21/2017 10:51 AMPosted by OneShot
I'm seeing this ridiculous excuse of people whining about being unable to climb due to bad teammates, leavers, streaks etc.

But why is it that people are able to make smurfs and climb to GM/top500 like nothing?

Why does boosting exist, where boosters are able to boost 500 SR in a matter of hours?

When will kids realize the only thing stopping them from climbing is their reluctance to actually get good at the game

Edit: Going to go ahead and add this because people are making assumptions based on my short post. No, I don't think the ranking system is perfect. Yes I do think a player that plays slightly above his rank can be stuck in a rank for some time. But when players constantly use the "bad teammates" excuse when there is room for improvement, it's just ridiculous.


I played too much during season 3, competitive. I lost LOTS of games with other diamond, plat, and gold players because they were genuinely clueless how to play their hero correctly, where to place themselves correctly, that they should know / learn how to play at least 2 heroes in every category (tank, support, offense, defense), that only playing widow after 100+ hours is a bad idea, lots of other stuff like that. Sure one extremely experienced player can smurf their way back to the top for their new account. But that's not a fair analogy for players, who aren't smurfs, who are still practicing everything. I definitely improved and could improve further with lots of heroes. But no matter how well I played with any hero needed, there could always end up being at least one or more people on my team that would just pick awful picks for the map / comp / other team. And they weren't good. And it didn't help. And they didn't switch.

Absolutely you can drop your SR because your teammates don't communicate, know how to play multiple heroes or pick one they're good at for the given map / the team's comp / the enemy team's comp. I did improve and could improve more. But in the end, that doesn't matter unless I was willing to play competitive RELIGIOUSLY, as in for 5 + hours daily. Only then would I get some win-streaks in and people who were friendly / knew wtf decent strategies like I listed above are.
02/22/2017 03:05 PMPosted by ToxicBone
I like how many people who say: "Is your fault you are bad, you are where you belong"....are players above Diamond while people who say things like: "sometimes is hard when you get unbalanced teams, i can do everything if my team doesnt help.".....are below Platinium. Coincidence? I dont think so. The Ranking System is Broken and very unbalance putting players matches which or they rekt the enemy or get rekt; situations where you can be lvl 400 and be in a team with someone below lvl 100, being Platinium and getting a duo where one is Gold 2400 and the other Silver 1990, and many more examples. Of course this only happens in the below Ranks because past 3200 players take it serious, but yes, there can be 1 or 2 Trolls but you dont get them as often as Platinium and below. Players should look at each other and understand where each one comes from because the only thing i see is Diamond and above players talking trash at lower Rank and those lower Ranks insulting and blaming without giving reasons; but we all must know this: "The System is Broken and has been since Season 2 with the Solution only affecting people below Diamond making it harder for decent player who take the game serious."


I am diamond and I started Season 2 in low gold. I've been through it all and I know what it's like. See my post above to learn how to fix the cesspool that is sub-diamond competitive.
02/22/2017 10:48 AMPosted by Disparu
OK, I'll explain this again for the intellectually poor.

If you are a significantly better player you can play above the randomness of terrible matchmaking and therefore still carry.

If you are a better player (but not significantly) then you will be affected by this randomness. The match making is !@#$. There is a whole plethora of people across all ranks who do not belong where they are placed. This produces random games. So the only way out of this is to play so many games that statistically this randomness eventually works you out of it as the better player.

This will take MILLIONS+ OF GAMES due to the sheer amount of variables in overwatch (made significantly worse due to no solo queue). No-one plays this amount, so some get lucky, some get unlucky, and the entire ranking system falls apart for anyone who is not massively placed in the wrong rank and can therefore beat the outliers.


Incorrect. You only need to be 1 or 2% better than your rank to improve. If you can turn 2% of your losses into wins, you will easily climb. It does not take millions of games to even out the random element of ranked. You need to learn to understand probability better. Anything around 100 game will suffice. The more games you play, the less the random element has an effect, and the more your true skill will shine through.
02/22/2017 03:05 PMPosted by ToxicBone
I like how many people who say: "Is your fault you are bad, you are where you belong"....are players above Diamond while people who say things like: "sometimes is hard when you get unbalanced teams, i can do everything if my team doesnt help.".....are below Platinium. Coincidence? I dont think so. The Ranking System is Broken and very unbalance putting players matches which or they rekt the enemy or get rekt; situations where you can be lvl 400 and be in a team with someone below lvl 100, being Platinium and getting a duo where one is Gold 2400 and the other Silver 1990, and many more examples. Of course this only happens in the below Ranks because past 3200 players take it serious, but yes, there can be 1 or 2 Trolls but you dont get them as often as Platinium and below. Players should look at each other and understand where each one comes from because the only thing i see is Diamond and above players talking trash at lower Rank and those lower Ranks insulting and blaming without giving reasons; but we all must know this: "The System is Broken and has been since Season 2 with the Solution only affecting people below Diamond making it harder for decent player who take the game serious."


What he said.
Downvote this, I really don't care. I'm saying this as someone who is capable of climbing alone, but not at superspeed.

A single person cannot carry an entire team if you don't main "carry heroes" that can survive on their own if their teammates aren't around.
A single person can't cap the point alone while the rest of their teammates are still standing around at the choke point and the entire enemy team is now attacking the single person.
A single person can't claim Victory during overtime if they die in the last few seconds and the rest of their team refuses to stand on the payload/point while the single person's respawning.
A single person can't get anything done if a decent Pharah or sniper or Roadhog or.. idk, Genji, is after them repeatedly.
A single person can't go wipe a team if their support isn't backing them up (or if they are support, if their dps isn't helping eliminate enemies around them).
A single person can't stay alive and heal their whole team, if their whole team is scattered all over the place and unreachable (or hiding behind a wall on a platform support can't get to while spamming "I need healing").
A single person can't race past 6 enemies to get onto the point because there's always gonna be someone on the enemy team that successfully stops them (you can't 1v6).
A single person cannot climb in a team-based game if their teammates are not being, well... teammates. You also can't climb if you're already in the rank you are and deserve to stay at because that's how you play and your games are balanced.

"Get good"? You know how many amazing players there are that still can't climb because of bad teammates (or just bad luck/bad days)? (By bad teammates, I mean people that don't play as team, people that run in alone, people that waste ults, people that don't communicate, people that refuse to get off of a hero that counters no one, people that throw the game or tilt the team, etc) Until you experience repetitive games where people leave the game because they died in the first 2 minutes and they're salty about it, or Symmetras that place teleporters on the edges of cliffs or Torbjorns that sit-emote behind their turrets that are in obscure useless locations, don't tell people they need to simply "git gud". Do your best? Hell yeah. Improve? Of course. But the entire team needs to play as a team in order to win. There are plenty of good players that can't climb because they're doing everything alone while their teammates don't know whether to repeatedly shoot Reinhardt's shield for 5 minutes straight or push in. Is the goal to use 46459 bullets? No, it's to get on the point/payload and cap it/move it and have more points than the enemy team, but surprisingly, some people don't seem to get this, or they just don't care.

It's a team-based game. People need to learn that, and start playing as a team.
16% of a team cannot outrun 100%. Unless you're Kephrii with Widowmaker or Seagull with Genji. People don't need to be "pros" at the game, to play it well and to have fun and to climb. However, I will say, that since the influx of new players that showed up around Christmas, comp games for unlucky (and low rank players) have gotten worse because there are too many new players joining competitive matches and playing them as if they're quick play or arcade games instead of actually playing seriously, with experience. It's worse if you soloqueue (and are placed with other random soloqueuers) and don't have a full 6-man team to play with 24/7. We don't all have that privilege. You do not have to be Grandmaster to be good at the game. You do not have to be Grandmaster to be considered a good player. Gold is the average, GM is 4 tiers above that. But hey, in the end, it's just a game, you're not going to physically die or lose something major by not climbing ranks. Except maybe your dignity.
02/22/2017 05:26 PMPosted by Chrom4tik
It's a team-based game. People need to learn that, and start playing as a team.
16% of a team cannot outrun 100%. Unless you're Kephrii with Widowmaker or Seagull with Genji. People don't need to be "pros" at the game, to play it well and to have fun and to climb. However, I will say, that since the influx of new players that showed up around Christmas, comp games for unlucky (and low rank players) have gotten worse because there are too many new players joining competitive matches and playing them as if they're quick play or arcade games instead of actually playing seriously, with experience. It's worse if you soloqueue (and are placed with other random soloqueuers) and don't have a full 6-man team to play with 24/7. We don't all have that privilege. You do not have to be Grandmaster to be good at the game. You do not have to be Grandmaster to be considered a good player. Gold is the average, GM is 4 tiers above that. But hey, in the end, it's just a game, you're not going to physically die or lose something major by not climbing ranks. Except maybe your dignity.


And for these reasons, they need to implement an in-game lfg and let groups play against randoms. It would promote team play while punishing trolls and selfish players.
All this is bull!@#$. Im Just a Diamond player and could easily take 4 acc from silver to high plat in just 2-3 weeks. How can you say that there are so many players stuck in tiers lower than they deserve, but also that you cant carry 5 players. Arent any of those players in your team???
Also, there is the same probability that bad players will be in the other team, with the exception that they wont have YOU.
Let's simplify.

When you have a leaver how often does your team win a man down? That's right. Basically never.

A trash teammate or two puts the team in the same position as having a leaver.

So GG. Enjoy the loss.

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