2 ways to fix D.va (Without reverting the Nerf)

General Discussion
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01/27/2017 07:47 PMPosted by Ceratisa
...Yes so they want us to thrust forward to block the shot as they get hooked.


Which then puts us in a bad position since D.Va get annihilated by everyone now. So now her DM is dying, she has no boosters, and now the entire enemy team is looking at her.


01/27/2017 07:49 PMPosted by Oizen
I'm honestly not confident in D.Va's current tanking ability to risk that.

You might save the person from the hook combo. But you'll be a high risk yourself, and the other person is still horribly out of position. You'll also be down both Boosters and DM.

I think I'd rather Zarya bubble.


I know guys but, there's likely no other way to catch up with whoever got hooked and block the shot. So We need to expose ourselves and put boosters on cd to block
01/27/2017 07:46 PMPosted by Oizen
01/27/2017 06:44 PMPosted by Geoff Goodman
This is excellent feedback, thank you.

I just tested it to make sure you could project defensive matrix through an ally to block shots on the other side, and you can. If you can find situations where this doesn't work it would be great to hear or even better, if you have a video showing it it would be helpful, since it would be considered a bug.

That said, there is a change coming to defense matrix next patch that you guys might be interested in. Currently on live, defense matrix wont block shots until they are a very small distance away from the muzzle of the gun that shot them. Generally speaking players wont notice this effect, but it matters a lot in certain situations, such as blocking an ally from getting killed by a roadhog hook combo.

Next patch the plan is to remove this minimum distance so the projectiles are killed directly out of the muzzle. This means it should be possible to save an ally from a Roadhog hook by covering them with your defense matrix, which doesn't work on live right now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts27M_vbKjg

heres a good video since you asked.

Very end of it has the issue of Defense matrix creating a deadspot with an allyhitbox.

Might be what you said though, also a lot other bypasses that can be done just by shooting the floor. Or shooting D.Va in the face at point blank not even triggering DM.


WOW. I main DVA and I never knew that. I have known roadhog is a little funny, but that explains it.
<span class="truncated">...</span>I know.

I'm just saying that I think he's wrong.

What can they do to buff her survivability without giving her back her armour? Improve defensive matrix? Well, it's going to help her survive, but she'll still be unable to deal damage while it's active. It's not going to make for a very exciting playstyle.

Improve her movement speed while firing even more? Sure, it'd work, and she'd probably be quite powerful then, but it would also move her away from her concept and make her more similar to Winston.

If they want to preserve what made her distinct, what defined her playstyle, then there's really no way around making her armoured and slow. Her defining traits from the start have been that she's:
-Resilient to fast firing, lower damage weapons.
-Vulnerable to slow, high damage weapons.
-Able to dive and threaten, but not pursue and keep pouring fire into a target.


Reinhardt can't do dmg with his shield up why should Dva be able too?


Because Rein can dole out 75, 100, and fully charged Widowmaker crit damage with all of his kit. D.Va shoots pew pews that add up over a sustained time.

Rein is supposed to be with the team at all times; D.Va in the enemy's face.

Rein has a gigantic shield that covers the team - D.Va has a selfish shield that requires that you position yourself really, really meticulously for a fat bunny mech.
01/27/2017 07:51 PMPosted by Littleman
Either way, heroes are expected to die, and D.va simply wasn't before. Blizzard can see the K/D ratios and deaths per match average.


The flaw in your logic here is that losing mech does not count as a death. A D.Va out of mech is no longer a tank, that means she isn't doing her job. That is why looking at raw stats and medals is nigh meaningless and a horrible way to try and balance the game around.
[quote="207516677287"]Next patch the plan is to remove this minimum distance so the projectiles are killed directly out of the muzzle. This means it should be possible to save an ally from a Roadhog hook by covering them with your defense matrix, which doesn't work on live right now.


The troll pick is strong in this one, totally disagree. Middle finger solution ever heard.
01/27/2017 07:46 PMPosted by Oizen
01/27/2017 06:44 PMPosted by Geoff Goodman
This is excellent feedback, thank you.

I just tested it to make sure you could project defensive matrix through an ally to block shots on the other side, and you can. If you can find situations where this doesn't work it would be great to hear or even better, if you have a video showing it it would be helpful, since it would be considered a bug.

That said, there is a change coming to defense matrix next patch that you guys might be interested in. Currently on live, defense matrix wont block shots until they are a very small distance away from the muzzle of the gun that shot them. Generally speaking players wont notice this effect, but it matters a lot in certain situations, such as blocking an ally from getting killed by a roadhog hook combo.

Next patch the plan is to remove this minimum distance so the projectiles are killed directly out of the muzzle. This means it should be possible to save an ally from a Roadhog hook by covering them with your defense matrix, which doesn't work on live right now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts27M_vbKjg

heres a good video since you asked.

Very end of it has the issue of Defense matrix creating a deadspot with an allyhitbox.

Might be what you said though, also a lot other bypasses that can be done just by shooting the floor. Or shooting D.Va in the face at point blank not even triggering DM.


Thanks for the video. All of these cases are related to the same general issue I mentioned earlier, the projectiles didn't travel far enough from the muzzle to be removed. With the change coming that I mentioned, all of the cases in the video would be blocked.
01/27/2017 06:44 PMPosted by Geoff Goodman
This is excellent feedback, thank you.

I just tested it to make sure you could project defensive matrix through an ally to block shots on the other side, and you can. If you can find situations where this doesn't work it would be great to hear or even better, if you have a video showing it it would be helpful, since it would be considered a bug.

That said, there is a change coming to defense matrix next patch that you guys might be interested in. Currently on live, defense matrix wont block shots until they are a very small distance away from the muzzle of the gun that shot them. Generally speaking players wont notice this effect, but it matters a lot in certain situations, such as blocking an ally from getting killed by a roadhog hook combo.

Next patch the plan is to remove this minimum distance so the projectiles are killed directly out of the muzzle. This means it should be possible to save an ally from a Roadhog hook by covering them with your defense matrix, which doesn't work on live right now.


Question about this defense matrix change Geoff.

With this change is it now possible for D.va to stop ults/abilities that are inside defense matrix or does this only apply to LMB/RMB shots? Right now it is possible to have an enemy stand completely inside of defense matrix and still use abilities that would normally be stopped by defense matrix. For example, Mei's ult can be stopped by DM, however if Mei aims her ult completely downwards it bypasses DM even if that Mei is standing inside the DM. This is true for several abilities as well like McCree's flashbang, Zarya's ult, Ana's biotic grenade, and others. Also with abilities like flashbang and biotic grenade it is possible to use them if you are standing close to an enemy that can get hit by the ability and still be inside defense matrix.

Can we expect changes to how these work as well any is there any chance of fixing it where attacks can bypass defense matrix if they are approach DM from the side or is that part intended?

EDIT: Nevermind, Geoff answered the question. Thank you.
01/27/2017 06:44 PMPosted by Geoff Goodman
This is excellent feedback, thank you.

I just tested it to make sure you could project defensive matrix through an ally to block shots on the other side, and you can. If you can find situations where this doesn't work it would be great to hear or even better, if you have a video showing it it would be helpful, since it would be considered a bug.

That said, there is a change coming to defense matrix next patch that you guys might be interested in. Currently on live, defense matrix wont block shots until they are a very small distance away from the muzzle of the gun that shot them. Generally speaking players wont notice this effect, but it matters a lot in certain situations, such as blocking an ally from getting killed by a roadhog hook combo.

Next patch the plan is to remove this minimum distance so the projectiles are killed directly out of the muzzle. This means it should be possible to save an ally from a Roadhog hook by covering them with your defense matrix, which doesn't work on live right now.


Thank you for responding, Geoff! That sounds like a definite step in the right direction.
01/27/2017 06:49 PMPosted by Hiyoshi
01/27/2017 06:44 PMPosted by Geoff Goodman
This is excellent feedback, thank you.

I just tested it to make sure you could project defensive matrix through an ally to block shots on the other side, and you can. If you can find situations where this doesn't work it would be great to hear or even better, if you have a video showing it it would be helpful, since it would be considered a bug.

That said, there is a change coming to defense matrix next patch that you guys might be interested in. Currently on live, defense matrix wont block shots until they are a very small distance away from the muzzle of the gun that shot them. Generally speaking players wont notice this effect, but it matters a lot in certain situations, such as blocking an ally from getting killed by a roadhog hook combo.

Next patch the plan is to remove this minimum distance so the projectiles are killed directly out of the muzzle. This means it should be possible to save an ally from a Roadhog hook by covering them with your defense matrix, which doesn't work on live right now.
Thanks Geoff, really happy to hear updates are being worked on for Dva because right now she feels very weak.

Roadhog is just dominating every game with his hook combo but if Dva can do something about it with her defense matrix, it would be really great.

But seriously though, any news on her new health / armor? I don't want to dive in, defense matrix and walk back only to get shot by Roadhog and die instantly.


Roadhog does that to everybody. The problem isn't D.Va's new armor/health balance, it's his attack power.
01/27/2017 08:01 PMPosted by Geoff Goodman
<span class="truncated">...</span>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts27M_vbKjg

heres a good video since you asked.

Very end of it has the issue of Defense matrix creating a deadspot with an allyhitbox.

Might be what you said though, also a lot other bypasses that can be done just by shooting the floor. Or shooting D.Va in the face at point blank not even triggering DM.


Thanks for the video. All of these cases are related to the same general issue I mentioned earlier, the projectiles didn't travel far enough from the muzzle to be removed. With the change coming that I mentioned, all of the cases in the video would be blocked.

What about a bug when Hog can hit mech through defense matrix if he is in point blank range?
Do you think you guys could make it possible for it to be easier to distinquish between D.vas mech call and her Self destruct? As it is right now, when you press tab it just shows the same blue symbol for mech call and Self destruct which can make it kind of confusing to some team mates who aren't closely looking and could potentially mess up competitive team strats as people would think the team has another ult but they really don't.
Here I am just wanting more emotes for baby D.va
01/27/2017 08:01 PMPosted by Geoff Goodman
Thanks for the video. All of these cases are related to the same general issue I mentioned earlier, the projectiles didn't travel far enough from the muzzle to be removed. With the change coming that I mentioned, all of the cases in the video would be blocked.


Welp, he is reading everything here. There's just no intention to reply to anything that everyone has been complaining about ever since the PTR update.

This means the complaining isn't going to stop because nothing has been answered, and D.Va's problems won't go anywhere. Fantastical.
The Original Poster read my mind.

I've been thinking that if they really want the current level of fortitude. They could do one or more things like:

  • Small improvement to damage at 10 to 20 meters. She use to have armor to go toe to toe. But now she doesn't and that 10m effective range is really noticeable when playing less reckless.
  • E ability that can help define her role.
  • Improve baby D.va to fight better. I was also thinking like the original post but I don't think it has to be drastic a change... but something something as simple as a dodge move would be good or How about a SC inspired stimpack! Lose 20% health but do everything twice as fast for a few seconds. That would be hilarious
  • Make DM more better in some way maybe... also as the original post already pointed out.
  • 01/27/2017 08:11 PMPosted by Slade
    01/27/2017 08:01 PMPosted by Geoff Goodman
    Thanks for the video. All of these cases are related to the same general issue I mentioned earlier, the projectiles didn't travel far enough from the muzzle to be removed. With the change coming that I mentioned, all of the cases in the video would be blocked.


    Welp, he is reading everything here. There's just no intention to reply to anything that everyone has been complaining about ever since the PTR update.

    This means the complaining isn't going to stop because nothing has been answered, and D.Va's problems won't go anywhere. Fantastical.
    Yeah, I guess so
    ...

    Thanks for the video. All of these cases are related to the same general issue I mentioned earlier, the projectiles didn't travel far enough from the muzzle to be removed. With the change coming that I mentioned, all of the cases in the video would be blocked.

    What about a bug when Hog can hit mech through defense matrix if he is in point blank range?

    I mean thats in the video.

    So I don't see why not.
    01/27/2017 08:12 PMPosted by Ceratisa
    <span class="truncated">...</span>

    Welp, he is reading everything here. There's just no intention to reply to anything that everyone has been complaining about ever since the PTR update.

    This means the complaining isn't going to stop because nothing has been answered, and D.Va's problems won't go anywhere. Fantastical.
    Yeah, I guess so


    Welp, I know I don't plan on just giving up. These threads will never die, because as time goes, D.Va will start seeing less and less play because people won't be able to defend her anymore or say "the update just came out." Her playrate as already dropped on Overbuff and when playing comp I almost never see her myself.

    This is so disappointing...
    01/27/2017 07:26 PMPosted by Ceratisa
    01/27/2017 07:23 PMPosted by IHirs
    the point of the out of suite dva is she is suppose to be bad XD, but the second idea is good, i didnt even know it didnt work
    You didn't? You've never seen point blank shots land under the effects of matrix? How?

    I'd like to say I'm a little salty with all these threads with so much more attention that don't ignore the fact that pilot form is a punishment, why did this one get a response?
    i stop shooting when im in defense matrix because i dont have a infinite clip
    01/27/2017 06:44 PMPosted by Geoff Goodman

    That said, there is a change coming to defense matrix next patch that you guys might be interested in. Currently on live, defense matrix wont block shots until they are a very small distance away from the muzzle of the gun that shot them. Generally speaking players wont notice this effect, but it matters a lot in certain situations, such as blocking an ally from getting killed by a roadhog hook combo.

    Next patch the plan is to remove this minimum distance so the projectiles are killed directly out of the muzzle. This means it should be possible to save an ally from a Roadhog hook by covering them with your defense matrix, which doesn't work on live right now.


    This whole dva controversy is not looking good for Blizzard. Just to recap

    -Game launches, dva is garbage

    -Months later they finally address how garbage she is, buff doesn't help

    -They throw in a random buff that nobody expected or even asked for

    -Dva becomes viable and is quickly and harshly nerfed, while Ana is barely tickled

    -Players get pissed

    -PTR feedback was blatantly ignored
    ..........specifically that the tank meta would still be a thing because D.Va was never the problem.
    (thanks for reminding me of that, Slade)

    -No response from Blizzard

    -Dva gets glitched in 3v3

    -Junkrat Tire meme from Geoff

    -Now all they've really said is that they're essentially fixing a bug that has been in the game since launch and thats it

    That's dva's life

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