Let's talk about D.Va

General Discussion
OK, so I know there are dozens of D.Va threads on here every day. And I know that there's a vast difference of opinion between the D.Va mains and those who don't play her. I want to hear the opinions of both groups, and hopefully catch the attention of Blizzard staff with our conversation.

Geoff Goodman has said that he thinks she's in a good place. And I think it was Jeff Kaplan that said they won't be giving her armor back. Despite the many calls for 300/300 (something I would support), I think we have to respect the fact that Blizzard does not want to do this. However, I think many in the community have a hard time believing she is really in a good place because we play her and we know that she has shortcomings now that should not be there.

I do think she's weak right now, but maybe not as weak as some people suggest. She can still be useful, but she cannot fulfill the dive role properly. Time to kill is too high compared to survivability. That doesn't mean she's completely useless or unplayable. What it does mean is that she's not suited for the niche that she's supposed to fill and needs a little help to get there.

My proposal is this. Give her the same buff that you just gave Winston, the 15% reduction in critical hitbox size. And reduce the spread on her fusion cannons, maybe 20%.

My reasoning is this. The reduction in spread will help more of her shots hit at range which will make her more useful prior to her engage. The 15% reduction in her crit zone will make her more survivable against a frenzied enemy during the dive.

Both of these options reward skill.

1. Reducing her spread rewards the D.Va player's aim. It means they can't get lucky shots as much. But if they do hit the target, it means they do more damage a little further back. It would actually make it a bit more difficult at extreme close range for the D.Va player because it's harder to track targets close up.

2. Reducing the critical hitbox rewards the aim of the player playing against D.Va. Right now, it's really easy to land headshots on her. It takes no skill. This would make headshots on D.Va more rewarding.

Overall, even though these don't seem like much, I think this would bring D.Va into a good spot. I don't think she's actually too far away from it if we give her a slight buff. What do you all think?
Everyone but Blizzard seems to understand what she needs, the question is how long will it take for them to admit what the rest of us already know.
I see Diva I downvote.
02/21/2017 06:16 AMPosted by Paragus
Everyone but Blizzard seems to understand what she needs, the question is how long will it take for them to admit what the rest of us already know.


I'm not really sure about that. The latest interview makes it feel like they have no idea how she's played.
02/21/2017 06:17 AMPosted by l33tk1ng
I see Diva I downvote.


I am actually trying to be constructive. At least take the time to read the suggestions. Then if you disagree downvote away. Or better yet, comment as to why you disagree.
02/21/2017 06:22 AMPosted by Larzyn
02/21/2017 06:16 AMPosted by Paragus
Everyone but Blizzard seems to understand what she needs, the question is how long will it take for them to admit what the rest of us already know.


I'm not really sure about that. The latest interview makes it feel like they have no idea how she's played.
That's what he said. Based on past experiences with Dva from beta onwards, be prepared for 6 months to a year before they decide to act appropriately.
OK, so I know there are dozens of D.Va threads on here every day, so I figured I'd join the party.


Clarified your introduction. :|

I don't play her a ton, but when I do I still get top kills, least deaths, usually silver damage, and get potg.

I mean I get she used to be better, and you gotta change your playstyle and take less risks...but she's still really good. Defense Matrix is one of the most OP defensive abilities in the game, and I absorb alot more damage than pre-nerf due to being in closer proximity to the team and having more opportunities to...tank for my team.
02/21/2017 06:28 AMPosted by Reaver102
02/21/2017 06:22 AMPosted by Larzyn
...

I'm not really sure about that. The latest interview makes it feel like they have no idea how she's played.
That's what he said. Based on past experiences with Dva from beta onwards, be prepared for 6 months to a year before they decide to act appropriately.


Oh, right I misread that.
OP's ideas would help, I think but I'm sure that Blizzard will do something noone asked for anyway. Given how the gun change was supposed to make them more "consistent" but made them overall worse, I don't expect them to come up with anything good.
02/21/2017 06:28 AMPosted by StormBlessed
OK, so I know there are dozens of D.Va threads on here every day, so I figured I'd join the party.


Clarified your introduction. :|

I don't play her a ton, but when I do I still get top kills, least deaths, usually silver damage, and get potg.

I mean I get she used to be better, and you gotta change your playstyle and take less risks...but she's still really good. Defense Matrix is one of the most OP defensive abilities in the game, and I absorb alot more damage than pre-nerf due to being in closer proximity to the team and having more opportunities to...tank for my team.


I've been a D.Va main since the game launched. I've played every variant of her. This isn't the worst she's ever been. But, she's in a similar spot to where she was before her recent buffs. I was getting POTG and 4 gold medals then too, but Blizzard said she needed a buff. I can still have that kind of performance, but mostly in quickplay. I can also perform really well with Mercy and Sombra. But that doesn't mean they are balanced just because I can make them work.
I see and understand your suggestions, but I cannot personally agree with some of them.

> 300HP/300AR instead of 100HP/400AR helps Ana more than any other healer. We want to make her work well with all the healers, not give another edge to Ana over them.
> Reducing spread would help somewhat, but her bullet decay is still really severe at the moment at anything more than 10m. Tried shooting from top of the church on Dorado (example)? They'll simply ignore you because the damage is too small to matter, you can no longer distract\lure\annoy them in many places you could before.
> Changing the critbox is gonna change who D.Va is a bit too drastically, plus the Defense Matrix feels like it's there precisely to help her deal with that flaw too.

Edit: It's not like they made the decay more severe directly, it's just that bullets now decay from 2 instead of 3.
If they don't want to change her armor / compensate survivability in another way, at least they need to make her a threat by changing the damage.

She needs her damage model back. It must be 8x3, not 11x2. To make it feel more consistent - yay, you indeed can tighten the spread. Yet however her current spread allows her to make some damage on highly mobile targets - since she has that huge angular rotation penalty on shooting.

What I see for the damage:

- As I've said, 11x2 -> 8x3
- Tightening spread ~20% so that she can be effective beyond that point blank range and that it feels consistent and rewards aim
- Removing angular rotation penalty so that with tightened spread she is still able to deal with mobile targets

That's it, you'll get a mobile glass-cannon which actually can take down targets provided you have a tracking skill and diving with her will at least become a 1 v 1 trade, not "dead D.Va".
02/21/2017 07:02 AMPosted by Angel

She needs her damage model back. It must be 8x3, not 11x2.


Interestingly, 8 fits with her lore as a gamer. She was the 8-bit hero.
There's two megathreads about this. Why would you make ANOTHER one just to say what people have already said. Support those threads. Spamming more and more threads isn't the way.
I feel like she's weak atm. They made her stronger than they had to, they pulled back too hard and now it's difficult for her to do anything particularly well. Yeah you can still use her, but you can get better results/contribute more to your team on other characters. She's seeing lower pick rates than Winston, a character that blizzard is giving a buff, so I think that says something.

All that being said, it's my hope that whatever data blizzard claims to pay attention to will eventually convince them to help her out in a meaningful way. A lot of heroes have been languishing in a pretty rough place, and the situation has continually gotten worse for heroes like McCree and Reaper so that doesn't exactly fill me with confidence, but we see Winston and Bastion getting some attention so that's cause for some hope. In regard to Bastion though, I hope they don't decide to give D.VA an unnecessary rework. She doesn't really need anything that complicated.
I agree.
I have agree right now she's in a semi rough patch she's not unviable but she isn't doing good either her surviability is pretty rough and her damage feels inconsistent if they made her an even split of armor that would help the surviability or changed how her damage worked that unfortunately they always mess with both at the same time effectively breaking the hero
02/21/2017 06:14 AMPosted by Lumin
Both of these options reward skill.


im down. i would rather her be more spiky if they really wont give her survivability back.
02/21/2017 06:28 AMPosted by StormBlessed
...

Clarified your introduction. :|

I don't play her a ton, but when I do I still get top kills, least deaths, usually silver damage, and get potg.

I mean I get she used to be better, and you gotta change your playstyle and take less risks...but she's still really good. Defense Matrix is one of the most OP defensive abilities in the game, and I absorb alot more damage than pre-nerf due to being in closer proximity to the team and having more opportunities to...tank for my team.


I've been a D.Va main since the game launched. I've played every variant of her. This isn't the worst she's ever been. But, she's in a similar spot to where she was before her recent buffs. I was getting POTG and 4 gold medals then too, but Blizzard said she needed a buff. I can still have that kind of performance, but mostly in quickplay. I can also perform really well with Mercy and Sombra. But that doesn't mean they are balanced just because I can make them work.


This mentality is it. I still can go in and get four gold medals and kick some !@#. However, the amount of effort I expend to make this happen is far higher than other members of the cast. I do not mind having to work my $%^ off to achieve this but there is a point where is like, "why not pick another character? I would get much greater results for my effort.." this is how balance should be looked at.
I've been thinking that a weapon toggle "E" function could do something similar.
It can be a toggle a "tight spread mode" that shoots slower.

technically that could be easier to balance then a straight buff to the normal attack while still giving an option to be more effective beyond 10m.

02/21/2017 07:02 AMPosted by Angel
If they don't want to change her armor / compensate survivability in another way, at least they need to make her a threat by changing the damage.

She needs her damage model back. It must be 8x3, not 11x2. To make it feel more consistent - yay, you indeed can tighten the spread. Yet however her current spread allows her to make some damage on highly mobile targets - since she has that huge angular rotation penalty on shooting.

What I see for the damage:

- As I've said, 11x2 -> 8x3
- Tightening spread ~20% so that she can be effective beyond that point blank range and that it feels consistent and rewards aim
- Removing angular rotation penalty so that with tightened spread she is still able to deal with mobile targets

That's it, you'll get a mobile glass-cannon which actually can take down targets provided you have a tracking skill and diving with her will at least become a 1 v 1 trade, not "dead D.Va".

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