The endless war against a "punishing" Matchmaking System

Competitive Discussion
Hello!

i had a few bad days about 2 weeks ago, and dropped from 4.1k to 3.2k SR. I don't want to complain about this, maybe i deserved it, maybe not. who cares. what i wanted to talk about is that since then, the matchmaking is "punishing" me, to a point where ranking up again has become almost impossible.

I started marking down on paper every SR change after every match. i get +16/+23 points when winning, and i lose -25/-33 when losing. i can provide photos of such papers if u want them. I'm in a situation where winning 2 every 3 games is not enough anymore (win +17, win +17, lose -31. total= +3. this keeps happening over and over).

even with such system "working" against me, i managed to get back a few hundreds points. At some point I won 8 games in a row, lost one, then won 6 in a row again... after a few alternate win/loss games i won another 6 in a row... i have a winrate higher than 60% in my last 100 games. but still, the game keeps giving me +17/+20/+23... and then -25/-29/-31...

when i was on that 8 wins streak, i got +33/+33 at the 6th and 7th won game and +47 at the 8th won game. it's absolutely ridicolous, i clearly remember getting +50 and even more points every win after the 5th when being on streak in the past.

i remember from other posts from developers talking about a "performance stat"... some kind of hidden rating where u get compared with other players of similar SR on the heroes you used. well... im a Reinhardt main, and i believe this has something to do with the "blocked damage" stat.

i once used to keep my shield open in dead moments, blocking poke damage before the fight even started and then finding myself with a broken shield when needed. i learned with time to save my shield as much as possible, so i can best use it when really needed. my "blocked damage" averages (per minute) is much lower than it was before, but it doesn't mean i'm a worse reinhardt... it's actually the opposite. i would like to hope this doesn't mean anything, but i sadly believe that's it...

what am i supposed to do, to show to the MM system that i'm a better player? isn't 60%+ "partial" winrate enough? aren't 3-4 winning streaks in a few days enough?
can the "peformance" stat not be such a mystery thing please? can someone from blizzard investigate my account and tell me what's behind this "punishing" system behaviour?
People are mostly talking out their !@#$ when they claim they know how this system works.

The simplest answer is that if you can't carry five people you are in a lottery.
02/12/2017 10:39 AMPosted by Automagic
People are mostly talking out their !@#$ when they claim they know how this system works.

just asking for explanations
I think this is a bug with hidden MMR. Personal performance is not supposed to be this big of an effect. There have been some reports that when you crash your rating, the system decides that you belong down there (or lower) until you spend a significant amount of time in ratings purgatory with a very high win percentage. If you can maintain a 60%+ win rate, your hidden MMR will eventually reset and let you back up again.

Oddly enough, people tend to say the reverse does not happen: if you go on a win streak, the game does not assume that you belong up there.

This is all anecdotal, but Blizzard really needs to look into this (and then abolish Hidden MMR and win/loss streaks).
system believes you are a 3,8k player. you play in 3,3k so you must win. you win, you earn 20, you lose and you lose 30 because you should win. Stupid system.

the funny think is that the opposite doesnt work well either. First time you hit season high you will still lose way more than you win. Needs some days to believe that you actually belong there. Maybe they've done this to punish people who got carried higher than they belong.
02/12/2017 10:39 AMPosted by Automagic
People are mostly talking out their !@#$ when they claim they know how this system works.

The simplest answer is that if you can't carry five people you are in a lottery.

yesterday i had a day of not quite being able to carry hard enough and it felt really really bad..

i usually hover around 3.6k.. if i fall down to diamond i can carry super easy but in masters its kind of hit or miss.. i cant do enough to make up for bad healers or bad tanks but i can frag enough to win if even one other person is doing work.

one day tho.. ill be able to carry these heavy !@#$s...
02/12/2017 10:59 AMPosted by Hanzo
02/12/2017 10:39 AMPosted by Automagic
People are mostly talking out their !@#$ when they claim they know how this system works.

The simplest answer is that if you can't carry five people you are in a lottery.

yesterday i had a day of not quite being able to carry hard enough and it felt really really bad..

i usually hover around 3.6k.. if i fall down to diamond i can carry super easy but in masters its kind of hit or miss.. i cant do enough to make up for bad healers or bad tanks but i can frag enough to win if even one other person is doing work.

one day tho.. ill be able to carry these heavy !@#$s...
yesterday i won 5 and lost 2. My performance was so good but still i couldnt save the day for these 2 matches. One was semi-trolling and the other was one stupid dps who was just on qp mode. I had 4k/d ratio, 3,4 elims/min, 1,8k dmg/min. according to masteroverwatch all these are top 1-2%. I climbed 90sr. Thats all. I will lose all this just for having one leaver and one bad game.

the most annoying thing is that i carried my team in oasis (25mins game) and won 24sr. The next match was not even close. We won in less than 6 mins in numbani full match. i won 30+ and we were all equally good.

oasis game was 60+elims, 5-6 deaths, tons of dmg and dmg blocked as zarya.
I hate a system that uses this "predict" algorithm, it's incredibly demoralizing.

Especially when the designer already said that "losing doesn't mean a bad matchmaking system, a bad team, or bad player; it just means that the other team at a specific moment played better than your team"

AKA the flow of the game and luck with ults and luck with respawning is more of a determining factor than skill sometimes. Therefore why is there a prediction algorithm?
Not surprised at all when I click on your name, and see you mostly play Rein and Lucio. They're just too hard to quantify as good or bad play with numbers. I can't move up with 55% winrate on Lucio over hundreds of games and yet I see people here posting about going up on damage-centric heroes with sub 50% play.

Especially, the way it seems to value damage and elims per time with no worries about deaths and some other stats. I think that's why in gold you get these really bad dder's, all over the map except where the objective is, and they don't drop below you. They get the same SR for sub 50 play that support and Rein get for over 50 winrate.

At this point, I don't see how personal results should factor into some hero's SR at all. Just admit its all about wins and losses. One thing I'm surprised had no effect at all is how close the game is. I would think that is very relevent information that is being discarded. Also, it would encourage people not to just give up, and help teams stay cohesive. If you won or lost in OT in extra rounds, its only going to be +/- single digit SR.
your personal performance is gonna suck if just one or two teammates are subpar.
02/13/2017 06:58 AMPosted by Isachar
Not surprised at all when I click on your name, and see you mostly play Rein and Lucio. They're just too hard to quantify as good or bad play with numbers. I can't move up with 55% winrate on Lucio over hundreds of games and yet I see people here posting about going up on damage-centric heroes with sub 50% play.

Especially, the way it seems to value damage and elims per time with no worries about deaths and some other stats. I think that's why in gold you get these really bad dder's, all over the map except where the objective is, and they don't drop below you. They get the same SR for sub 50 play that support and Rein get for over 50 winrate.

At this point, I don't see how personal results should factor into some hero's SR at all. Just admit its all about wins and losses. One thing I'm surprised had no effect at all is how close the game is. I would think that is very relevent information that is being discarded. Also, it would encourage people not to just give up, and help teams stay cohesive. If you won or lost in OT in extra rounds, its only going to be +/- single digit SR.


No issue here though.
02/13/2017 08:48 AMPosted by Tankz


No issue here though.


While I've been on these forums enough to know you're the resident troll, this one is a bit more enigmatic than most. Please elaborate.
02/13/2017 09:02 AMPosted by Isachar
02/13/2017 08:48 AMPosted by Tankz


No issue here though.


While I've been on these forums enough to know you're the resident troll, this one is a bit more enigmatic than most. Please elaborate.


Despite playing lucio/rein or only tank/supports i dont feel like i get punished at all, ive been sitting on a +- 200 SR the entire season.
02/13/2017 09:06 AMPosted by Tankz
02/13/2017 09:02 AMPosted by Isachar
...

While I've been on these forums enough to know you're the resident troll, this one is a bit more enigmatic than most. Please elaborate.


Despite playing lucio/rein or only tank/supports i dont feel like i get punished at all, ive been sitting on a +- 200 SR the entire season.


doesn't change the fact that there are many people that have had very high swings.
02/13/2017 09:33 AMPosted by Understeer
02/13/2017 09:06 AMPosted by Tankz
...

Despite playing lucio/rein or only tank/supports i dont feel like i get punished at all, ive been sitting on a +- 200 SR the entire season.


doesn't change the fact that there are many people that have had very high swings.


Yup, exactly. You can sit at one ranking range for over a month and then move to another that's like a quarter of the OW population away, and stay there for another month. The only thing I might be sure of with this system is that it is very unlikely people in silver are really playing at master level. Outside of that kind of range, everyone else should expect wild swings.

As for Lucio, it would seem to be less of a problem at higher SR, but Lucio's issues with ranking keep popping up. There's a reason for it. Blow outs might be part of the problem, but I suspect the emphasis on flanking in gold / plat also changes how the game gets played. Is Blizzard's algo designed for all Lucio's or does it compare how wins are achieved in each tier? There's a huge difference as to why he's popular at lower ranks and why he's played at higher SR.

Bottom line - after a certain number of games, why shouldn't win% be the only factor? I'd feel more confident in that system for several of the more popular heroes.
I noticed I was stuck in the 2200-2400 range for the longest time.

Then I decided to play other heroes, like Mei and Zen. For some reason I have dropped like a rock, even though I think that I may actually be helping the team more.

Somehow I think they are taking into account all of my stats and somehow decided to push me lower in rank.

The odd thing is the teams I'm facing in the 1800's seem just as good as the teams I faced in the 2200's.

Something is just simply off and it may be the fact that an MMR rating is placing you with or against other players with a certain MMR.
i managed to get back to 3700-3800 and still getting -30 when losing and +20 when winning... this has completely no sense. i see no other way than getting a new account because of this !@#$. i would have reached 4k or even more with a normal rating at this winrate. it's %^-*ing ridicolous
It's even worse when you play healer. You can heal till your fingers bleed BUT:

If you win, your sr gain will be least out of your teammates'.

If you lose, you will need to win at least twice to get those sr points back.
02/12/2017 10:39 AMPosted by Automagic
People are mostly talking out their !@#$ when they claim they know how this system works.

The simplest answer is that if you can't carry five people you are in a lottery.


This. Exactly.

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