I Kinda Like The New Bastion

General Discussion
Prev 1 3 4 5 26 Next
Glad that we got some insight on the situation from you Jeff. Not just on Bastion, but also on the perceptions of the meta in Overwatch. I'll be glad to see what changes you make to Bastion, and hope that they will be a better solution for Bastion as a character and the Overwatch meta.
03/02/2017 09:01 AMPosted by BGZ

Here is an alternative: Listen to the million other people trying to tell you the changes were too much.


Millions of people are telling us millions of contradicting things all day, every day at this point. Different communities are telling us different things constantly. The idea of community consensus is slippery at best.
03/02/2017 08:52 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
n playing online games since they existed and now working on them for almost 15 years. One of the things I've learned about online communities is that change -- any change -- can cause a lot of anxiety. Back when I was working on World of Warcraft, I used to say that if we mail
03/02/2017 09:03 AMPosted by MKhaos
However... I'm now scared. Bastion has always been my favourite character and I'm now scared he's going to be over nerfed.


Eh, I don't think so. According to Jeff, he feels Bastion is too strong, but not very much so.

And I agree. You can win against Bastions, there's ways around the 'bot. It's just really annoying for a number of characters to pin it down. Tracer was a optimal counter to Bastion, and she struggles to kill it through the armor and Ironclad. The armor alone makes it a huge pain for her.

It wasn't a problem before because Bastion couldn't heal itself while taking damage. Now that's not a problem and it can regenerate it's armor.

I'm expecting some small changes, but hey, we'll be seeing it soon.
03/02/2017 08:52 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Thanks for the thoughtful feedback here, everyone. We know Bastion is a big focus for everyone right now. I've been playing online games since they existed and now working on them for almost 15 years. One of the things I've learned about online communities is that change -- any change -- can cause a lot of anxiety. Back when I was working on World of Warcraft, I used to say that if we mailed 500 gold to every player, the community would find some way to be upset about it... because change is bad.

With that said, we'll make some changes to Bastion and put them up on the PTR this morning. We'd love to hear your feedback about those changes when they go up. I don't have details right now because we're still making the changes!

I think it is interesting to reflect upon the idea of what the meta is, what the meta is perceived to be and what the meta should be. When I read some feedback about what the meta should be, I get the sense that for some people that means every hero in Overwatch is picked at the exact same rate (so everyone has a 4-5% pick rate). I'm not sure this is entirely realistic, nor do I think the game is necessarily better if this is the case. It might be and I would love to be wrong about that. One of the reasons that we try to keep all 4 of our game modes viable (I know the community thinks of it as 3 game modes or maybe 3.5) is because different maps and different game modes allow the meta to be more fluid. The more the community pushes us to eliminate maps or modes, the more the hero meta will stagnate. I totally agree that when the meta is too defined (i.e. people only play XYZ heroes) the game is less fun. So we need to watch for trends and adjust as needed.

One interesting thing is the actual meta vs. the perceived meta. The perceived meta is largely driven off of the professional scene and what gets played in tournaments. After those tournaments, really cool reports are written analyzing the pro scene. Those reports go out of their way to say that they are solely reflective of the pro scene and not necessarily representative of the playerbase at large. Yet people cite the pro pick choices as gospel. One thing that I found interesting was that there was a perception based on those reports and in the community that Mercy is never played. Yet according to our stats back during the "3 tank meta" when "Lucio and Ana were the only viable healers", Mercy was the 5th most played hero OVERALL -- and yes, I am talking about in Competitive Play, not Quick Play.

So often, the perception of what the meta is does not match what the actual meta is.

Balance changes can be very difficult to make when emotions run so high in the community. There is outrage if a hero does not get played a lot (like with Bastion or Symmetra). We make changes to make those heroes more viable which means they will get played more. The result is, people need to adjust to playing against Symmetra and Bastion more... and they are more powerful. We cannot just magically make Bastion get picked more so the stats look pretty and not make changes to make him more viable at the same time.

I want to share my personal opinion on Bastion (which is dangerous because I know I am a spokesperson for the game). I play every night. I'm playing both Quick Play and Competitive (I played 2 games of CTF to get my loot box). Over the past few nights I've played with, as and against Bastion. My perception is that he is a little too powerful right now. In particular, in one match I was playing Bastion and the enemy Tracer was trying to hunt me down. The Tracer player was clearly a better player than I am -- a very skilled individual. I relied heavily on my self-heal and the Tracer could not finish me off. But I was able to kill Tracer in recon mode almost through attrition. This part felt wrong to me. But a lot of the feedback I read feels wildly blown out of proportion. Bastion isn't the "I Win button" and he can be focused and countered. When a team is coordinated, he is far scarier than when a team is just playing a pick-up/deathmatch style of play -- and I've witnessed both over the past few nights. I think complaints and praise of Bastion are both valid. I don't think he's perfect yet. But I do think there is a high amount of hyperbole around this particular situation.

In any event, will put some changes up and we're eager to hear your thoughts.


Ok now do the same for the "Buff McCree" threads, there's plenty of them.
03/02/2017 09:04 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
03/02/2017 09:01 AMPosted by BGZ

Here is an alternative: Listen to the million other people trying to tell you the changes were too much.


Millions of people are telling us millions of contradicting things all day, every day at this point. Different communities are telling us different things constantly. The idea of community consensus is slippery at best.


i really like the new bastion jeff

dont listen to these babyragers
Good timing on the response Jeff, the day 1-2 tsunami of emotion and opinions has somewhat diluted already. I've been a follower of the idea that Mercy just can't do well with Ana around too, but you're right that when I'm actually playing the game I see Mercy more than often enough and she's never a burden on the team, her performance is entirely related to her skill rather than her kit's power.

And thanks for the bit on your time in quickplay too, a lot of players fail to grasp that you do play the game and neither you nor the rest of Blizzard are some sort of balance Tyrants who are disconnected from the game's condition.
03/02/2017 08:52 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Thanks for the thoughtful feedback here, everyone. We know Bastion is a big focus for everyone right now. I've been playing online games since they existed and now working on them for almost 15 years. One of the things I've learned about online communities is that change -- any change -- can cause a lot of anxiety. Back when I was working on World of Warcraft, I used to say that if we mailed 500 gold to every player, the community would find some way to be upset about it... because change is bad.

With that said, we'll make some changes to Bastion and put them up on the PTR this morning. We'd love to hear your feedback about those changes when they go up. I don't have details right now because we're still making the changes!

I think it is interesting to reflect upon the idea of what the meta is, what the meta is perceived to be and what the meta should be. When I read some feedback about what the meta should be, I get the sense that for some people that means every hero in Overwatch is picked at the exact same rate (so everyone has a 4-5% pick rate). I'm not sure this is entirely realistic, nor do I think the game is necessarily better if this is the case. It might be and I would love to be wrong about that. One of the reasons that we try to keep all 4 of our game modes viable (I know the community thinks of it as 3 game modes or maybe 3.5) is because different maps and different game modes allow the meta to be more fluid. The more the community pushes us to eliminate maps or modes, the more the hero meta will stagnate. I totally agree that when the meta is too defined (i.e. people only play XYZ heroes) the game is less fun. So we need to watch for trends and adjust as needed.

One interesting thing is the actual meta vs. the perceived meta. The perceived meta is largely driven off of the professional scene and what gets played in tournaments. After those tournaments, really cool reports are written analyzing the pro scene. Those reports go out of their way to say that they are solely reflective of the pro scene and not necessarily representative of the playerbase at large. Yet people cite the pro pick choices as gospel. One thing that I found interesting was that there was a perception based on those reports and in the community that Mercy is never played. Yet according to our stats back during the "3 tank meta" when "Lucio and Ana were the only viable healers", Mercy was the 5th most played hero OVERALL -- and yes, I am talking about in Competitive Play, not Quick Play.

So often, the perception of what the meta is does not match what the actual meta is.

Balance changes can be very difficult to make when emotions run so high in the community. There is outrage if a hero does not get played a lot (like with Bastion or Symmetra). We make changes to make those heroes more viable which means they will get played more. The result is, people need to adjust to playing against Symmetra and Bastion more... and they are more powerful. We cannot just magically make Bastion get picked more so the stats look pretty and not make changes to make him more viable at the same time.

I want to share my personal opinion on Bastion (which is dangerous because I know I am a spokesperson for the game). I play every night. I'm playing both Quick Play and Competitive (I played 2 games of CTF to get my loot box). Over the past few nights I've played with, as and against Bastion. My perception is that he is a little too powerful right now. In particular, in one match I was playing Bastion and the enemy Tracer was trying to hunt me down. The Tracer player was clearly a better player than I am -- a very skilled individual. I relied heavily on my self-heal and the Tracer could not finish me off. But I was able to kill Tracer in recon mode almost through attrition. This part felt wrong to me. But a lot of the feedback I read feels wildly blown out of proportion. Bastion isn't the "I Win button" and he can be focused and countered. When a team is coordinated, he is far scarier than when a team is just playing a pick-up/deathmatch style of play -- and I've witnessed both over the past few nights. I think complaints and praise of Bastion are both valid. I don't think he's perfect yet. But I do think there is a high amount of hyperbole around this particular situation.

In any event, will put some changes up and we're eager to hear your thoughts.


Holy crap Jeff..

I'll admit, I've probably been one of your & Geoff's biggest critics these past few months. But i have to say, that was extremely well spoken. This is one of the first times i felt you were being completely honest with us with no bs attached.

I can respect that
03/02/2017 08:52 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan

Bastion isn't the "I Win button" and he can be focused and countered. When a team is coordinated, he is far scarier than when a team is just playing a pick-up/deathmatch style of play -- and I've witnessed both over the past few nights. I think complaints and praise of Bastion are both valid. I don't think he's perfect yet. But I do think there is a high amount of hyperbole around this particular situation.

In any event, will put some changes up and we're eager to hear your thoughts.


Bastion can be focused and countered, however I don't think it's healthy for the gameplay when all teamwork and success is based on one player, one hero. Bastion forced teams to work more together, but at the same time it led to teams forcing to do same teamcomp over and over, and literally giving all your support on a single player. Anyhow thank you for the quick reply for the community!
I've spent a lot of time lately criticizing the state of Bastion, so I just want to say that while I do not think he is balanced in his current state, I DO think he is significantly more fun to play after the recent changes... and I'm not saying he is fun because he is strong, but rather because his kit dynamics are much more engaging than the (extremely) bland, singular design he had pre-patch.

He still lacks a lot of depth in his gameplay, but having Recon serve a purpose was definitely a step in the right direction.
03/02/2017 08:52 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Thanks for the thoughtful feedback here, everyone. We know Bastion is a big focus for everyone right now. I've been playing online games since they existed and now working on them for almost 15 years. One of the things I've learned about online communities is that change -- any change -- can cause a lot of anxiety. Back when I was working on World of Warcraft, I used to say that if we mailed 500 gold to every player, the community would find some way to be upset about it... because change is bad.

With that said, we'll make some changes to Bastion and put them up on the PTR this morning. We'd love to hear your feedback about those changes when they go up. I don't have details right now because we're still making the changes!

I think it is interesting to reflect upon the idea of what the meta is, what the meta is perceived to be and what the meta should be. When I read some feedback about what the meta should be, I get the sense that for some people that means every hero in Overwatch is picked at the exact same rate (so everyone has a 4-5% pick rate). I'm not sure this is entirely realistic, nor do I think the game is necessarily better if this is the case. It might be and I would love to be wrong about that. One of the reasons that we try to keep all 4 of our game modes viable (I know the community thinks of it as 3 game modes or maybe 3.5) is because different maps and different game modes allow the meta to be more fluid. The more the community pushes us to eliminate maps or modes, the more the hero meta will stagnate. I totally agree that when the meta is too defined (i.e. people only play XYZ heroes) the game is less fun. So we need to watch for trends and adjust as needed.

One interesting thing is the actual meta vs. the perceived meta. The perceived meta is largely driven off of the professional scene and what gets played in tournaments. After those tournaments, really cool reports are written analyzing the pro scene. Those reports go out of their way to say that they are solely reflective of the pro scene and not necessarily representative of the playerbase at large. Yet people cite the pro pick choices as gospel. One thing that I found interesting was that there was a perception based on those reports and in the community that Mercy is never played. Yet according to our stats back during the "3 tank meta" when "Lucio and Ana were the only viable healers", Mercy was the 5th most played hero OVERALL -- and yes, I am talking about in Competitive Play, not Quick Play.

So often, the perception of what the meta is does not match what the actual meta is.

Balance changes can be very difficult to make when emotions run so high in the community. There is outrage if a hero does not get played a lot (like with Bastion or Symmetra). We make changes to make those heroes more viable which means they will get played more. The result is, people need to adjust to playing against Symmetra and Bastion more... and they are more powerful. We cannot just magically make Bastion get picked more so the stats look pretty and not make changes to make him more viable at the same time.

I want to share my personal opinion on Bastion (which is dangerous because I know I am a spokesperson for the game). I play every night. I'm playing both Quick Play and Competitive (I played 2 games of CTF to get my loot box). Over the past few nights I've played with, as and against Bastion. My perception is that he is a little too powerful right now. In particular, in one match I was playing Bastion and the enemy Tracer was trying to hunt me down. The Tracer player was clearly a better player than I am -- a very skilled individual. I relied heavily on my self-heal and the Tracer could not finish me off. But I was able to kill Tracer in recon mode almost through attrition. This part felt wrong to me. But a lot of the feedback I read feels wildly blown out of proportion. Bastion isn't the "I Win button" and he can be focused and countered. When a team is coordinated, he is far scarier than when a team is just playing a pick-up/deathmatch style of play -- and I've witnessed both over the past few nights. I think complaints and praise of Bastion are both valid. I don't think he's perfect yet. But I do think there is a high amount of hyperbole around this particular situation.

In any event, will put some changes up and we're eager to hear your thoughts.


papa jeff, when is the next hero coming?
Fix the !@#$ing robot bastard
03/02/2017 08:52 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
I want to share my personal opinion on Bastion (which is dangerous because I know I am a spokesperson for the game). I play every night. I'm playing both Quick Play and Competitive (I played 2 games of CTF to get my loot box). Over the past few nights I've played with, as and against Bastion. My perception is that he is a little too powerful
SO IT IS WRITTEN
BASTION HAS WRESTLED WITH JEFF
2 weeks in the ptr, blizzard does nothing

2 days live, blizzard nerfs him

Does Blizzard take any feedback from the PTR????
03/02/2017 08:52 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Thanks for the thoughtful feedback here, everyone. We know Bastion is a big focus for everyone right now. I've been playing online games since they existed and now working on them for almost 15 years. One of the things I've learned about online communities is that change -- any change -- can cause a lot of anxiety. Back when I was working on World of Warcraft, I used to say that if we mailed 500 gold to every player, the community would find some way to be upset about it... because change is bad.

With that said, we'll make some changes to Bastion and put them up on the PTR this morning. We'd love to hear your feedback about those changes when they go up. I don't have details right now because we're still making the changes!

I think it is interesting to reflect upon the idea of what the meta is, what the meta is perceived to be and what the meta should be. When I read some feedback about what the meta should be, I get the sense that for some people that means every hero in Overwatch is picked at the exact same rate (so everyone has a 4-5% pick rate). I'm not sure this is entirely realistic, nor do I think the game is necessarily better if this is the case. It might be and I would love to be wrong about that. One of the reasons that we try to keep all 4 of our game modes viable (I know the community thinks of it as 3 game modes or maybe 3.5) is because different maps and different game modes allow the meta to be more fluid. The more the community pushes us to eliminate maps or modes, the more the hero meta will stagnate. I totally agree that when the meta is too defined (i.e. people only play XYZ heroes) the game is less fun. So we need to watch for trends and adjust as needed.

One interesting thing is the actual meta vs. the perceived meta. The perceived meta is largely driven off of the professional scene and what gets played in tournaments. After those tournaments, really cool reports are written analyzing the pro scene. Those reports go out of their way to say that they are solely reflective of the pro scene and not necessarily representative of the playerbase at large. Yet people cite the pro pick choices as gospel. One thing that I found interesting was that there was a perception based on those reports and in the community that Mercy is never played. Yet according to our stats back during the "3 tank meta" when "Lucio and Ana were the only viable healers", Mercy was the 5th most played hero OVERALL -- and yes, I am talking about in Competitive Play, not Quick Play.

So often, the perception of what the meta is does not match what the actual meta is.

Balance changes can be very difficult to make when emotions run so high in the community. There is outrage if a hero does not get played a lot (like with Bastion or Symmetra). We make changes to make those heroes more viable which means they will get played more. The result is, people need to adjust to playing against Symmetra and Bastion more... and they are more powerful. We cannot just magically make Bastion get picked more so the stats look pretty and not make changes to make him more viable at the same time.

I want to share my personal opinion on Bastion (which is dangerous because I know I am a spokesperson for the game). I play every night. I'm playing both Quick Play and Competitive (I played 2 games of CTF to get my loot box). Over the past few nights I've played with, as and against Bastion. My perception is that he is a little too powerful right now. In particular, in one match I was playing Bastion and the enemy Tracer was trying to hunt me down. The Tracer player was clearly a better player than I am -- a very skilled individual. I relied heavily on my self-heal and the Tracer could not finish me off. But I was able to kill Tracer in recon mode almost through attrition. This part felt wrong to me. But a lot of the feedback I read feels wildly blown out of proportion. Bastion isn't the "I Win button" and he can be focused and countered. When a team is coordinated, he is far scarier than when a team is just playing a pick-up/deathmatch style of play -- and I've witnessed both over the past few nights. I think complaints and praise of Bastion are both valid. I don't think he's perfect yet. But I do think there is a high amount of hyperbole around this particular situation.

In any event, will put some changes up and we're eager to hear your thoughts.


What is your rank dear Jeff? Its just pure curiosity:).
I personally like new bastion. I don't main him or use him much. He doesn't fit my playstyle but he doesn't feel overpowered. I can kill him with soldier and mcree and road.

My issue is definitely not being able to kill him as genji. I feel like that's kinda genji' job and it's been taken away. I think bastion is healthy for the overall health of the game. I want to see him be viable. But when you can't kill him as his "counter" feels bad.
THANK GOD PLEASE FIX BASTION, HE'S WAY TOO BROKEN RIGHT NOW I DON'T WANT TO SEE THIS GAME DIE LIKE WoW
03/02/2017 08:52 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
With that said, we'll make some changes to Bastion and put them up on the PTR this morning. We'd love to hear your feedback about those changes when they go up. I don't have details right now because we're still making the changes!


This would be reassuring however we as a community provided countless feedback regarding bastion after testing him on the PTR and yet he was rolled out regardless. It feels like the PTR is completely useless for testing purposes if feedback isn't responded to OR actioned upon?
So, when is ana going to get nerfed?

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum