Why is Ana a better Anti Flanker than McCree?

General Discussion
I was browsing again through the McCree threads and i thought of something.

This isn't a "nerf Ana" thread. Nor is it a "buff McCree" but an observation I made.

When I play Genji I almost never go after Ana's. I instead focus on other dps heroes or the other squishies. Why? because if she sleeps me I'm dead. If she grenades herself, she heals back to 100 negating any damage I've done while damaging me AND negating any healing I might be able to obtain. Basically trying to kill her isn't worth the risk to it's usually better to do something else.

When I play against a team that has a McCree, it honestly doesn't matter unless that McCree has good aim and Where I'm at (Plat) that's usually not the case.

Even if have decent aim, I can deflect and the McCree might even kill their own teammates. Or deflect flahsbang and jump around. Basically the fear is just not there. I can even go in when the McCree is distracted and pick off the Mercy or Lucio.

This stems from the statement that has been made by blizzard about McCree being an anti-flanker. I just don't think that's he case. Ana's kit is much more geared at dealing with flankers than McCree is.

I was thinking about suggesting giving McCree a sleepdart and self heal but it would be way too similar to Ana.

I do think Ana is a great anti flanker and should be looked at for inspiration if McCree were to ever be reworked.
I played at an even lower level (so keep that in mind with my mahogany comp exp).

I love the idea of flash bang grenade and fth combo... While all sorts of bad things can go wrong with Gengu flanks, he can handle Tracer well and probably Sombra?

Would not mind adding time to his stun... I think dive comps are going to really get strong and would love to see the anti flanker roll shine...

I love Ana, i play ana in comp... She is frustrating to flank.. She is uber immobile like zen, does as much damage as Zen but also has sleep dart and the grenade.... But ana can only heal herself with the grenade - so i have no clue what to do with her...

Last think i want is class homogeny - it ruined WOW...
She's not. Ana suffers terribly to dive comp whereas McCree is a really effective counter to it.

McCree's flashbag is an AOE effect and is much more reliable than Ana's sleepdart; it can also be used in a way so as to circumvent Genji's reflect which Ana can't do with the dart. He also does significantly more damage than Ana does at close range (despite what people will tell you) - he has a better fire rate and can headshot.
03/17/2017 10:12 AMPosted by James
She's not. Ana suffers terribly to dive comp whereas McCree is a really effective counter to it.

McCree's flashbag is an AOE effect and is much more reliable than Ana's sleepdart; it can also be used in a way so as to circumvent Genji's reflect which Ana can't do with the dart. He also does significantly more damage than Ana does at close range (despite what people will tell you) - he has a better fire rate and can headshot.


That only applies if the McCree is vvery good and if the Genji is substantially worse. Barring that, Genji vs McCree is a 50/50.
03/17/2017 10:21 AMPosted by Obamacare
03/17/2017 10:12 AMPosted by James
She's not. Ana suffers terribly to dive comp whereas McCree is a really effective counter to it.

McCree's flashbag is an AOE effect and is much more reliable than Ana's sleepdart; it can also be used in a way so as to circumvent Genji's reflect which Ana can't do with the dart. He also does significantly more damage than Ana does at close range (despite what people will tell you) - he has a better fire rate and can headshot.


That only applies if the McCree is vvery good and if the Genji is substantially worse. Barring that, Genji vs McCree is a 50/50.


It's 50% if the genji has dragonblade, otherwise mcree has a clear advantage. land a stun and it's 99% or you better not play mcree.
LOL anyone thinking Mccree has any kind of advantage over Genji is a straight up moron. At worst it's 50-50 with the edge going to Genji.Mccree or soldier are often times the first target of a dive comp because they are so easy to kill.
03/17/2017 10:12 AMPosted by James
She's not. Ana suffers terribly to dive comp whereas McCree is a really effective counter to it.

McCree's flashbag is an AOE effect and is much more reliable than Ana's sleepdart; it can also be used in a way so as to circumvent Genji's reflect which Ana can't do with the dart. He also does significantly more damage than Ana does at close range (despite what people will tell you) - he has a better fire rate and can headshot.


I just saw you're at around 3600k. But the reality is that anyone I've encountered (low diamond and below) cannot get the timing for the Flashbang to Genjis deflect. Even if they do, they have bad aim and Genji just gets away. I understand a good McCree can shut down genji but the there are a lot more reliable ways for a lower level to deal with Genji. (winston, torb, etc).

In this case i do feel that Ana is definitely a better "anti flanker" than McCree. Her kit is just made to survive even if the Ana is not really that skilled as opposed to the Genji. She in turn basically can deny flankers from going to her. Or at least put a lot more thought to be able to do it properly.

Also, since most people around my rank don't have reliable aim, I would say he's much more weak to a dive comp than and Ana is. A winston or road kill him a lot around this rank.

Don't get me wrong, i play McCree a bit and can definitely shut down Genji's and Tracers but why do that (with an useless ult) when I can do Ana, and do basically the same thing. Except with nano and the ability to keep my team alive?

Again, do keep in mind the skill at the ranks i'm talking about. I've made different posts about how McCree is incredibly hard to balance due to the strength of his left click.

But if he's ever reworked I'd like to see a character with the right tools to do his job as an anti-flanker. Unless he becomes a tank shredder again :b

edit: excuse grammar mistakes
03/17/2017 10:12 AMPosted by James
She's not. Ana suffers terribly to dive comp whereas McCree is a really effective counter to it.

McCree's flashbag is an AOE effect and is much more reliable than Ana's sleepdart; it can also be used in a way so as to circumvent Genji's reflect which Ana can't do with the dart. He also does significantly more damage than Ana does at close range (despite what people will tell you) - he has a better fire rate and can headshot.


McCree is HORRIBLE against Dive comp. Dive only works because of quick 2v1s against characters with no sustain or mobility to get away. McCree blows up the second a Winston and Genji or Winston and Tracer or Winston and Pharah jump on him, and there's literally nothing he can do.

Ana has sustain in the form of 100 HP burst heal, a sleep dart that will sleep the Winston for 5.5 seconds so she can just run away from him (and it's almost impossible to miss on Winston), and she can deal pretty decent damage at the same time.

And at this point, Genji counters McCree more than McCree counters Genji (and it's not a "skill matchup" - Taimou himself says that Genji has the advantage). Maybe when the game first came out it was the other way around, but it's soooo easy to just abuse flashbang's horrible consistency by jump spamming, getting in McCree's face so he can't throw it on the ground or above you during deflect, and dash bait.
I wouldn't say she is exactly better, but the fact that they are close when it comes to dealing with them is just stupid.
I understand where you're coming from, you're probably used to pooping on McCree but if Genjis ever come near me they're already dead, unless Zarya bubbles you or you're nano'd you don't really stand a chance against a McCree of equal or greater skill.

Most people are not skilled enough to play McCree at a level decent enough to handle dive, I enjoy playing against those comps though since they're free wins.

A good Tracer is scarier than a nimble ninja, Genji is a joke to anyone with good aim.
shhhhh dont say anything negative about ana... you'll get downvoted to oblivon...

ANA IS PERFECT INFACT SHE MAY NEED A BUFF.....
03/17/2017 01:12 PMPosted by KILLǤØRE
I understand where you're coming from, you're probably used to pooping on McCree but if Genjis ever come near me they're already dead, unless Zarya bubbles you or you're nano'd you don't really stand a chance against a McCree of equal or greater skill.

Most people are not skilled enough to play McCree at a level decent enough to handle dive, I enjoy playing against those comps though since they're free wins.

A good Tracer is scarier than a nimble ninja, Genji is a joke to anyone with good aim.


Dive comp won't see a Genji solo diving McCree though, that's where you're wrong. Good luck shooting a Genji while being electrocuted and surrounded by a bubble that both he and Winston will be dancing in and out of.
It's 50% if the genji has dragonblade, otherwise mcree has a clear advantage. land a stun and it's 99% or you better not play mcree.


So you shouldnt be allowed to play McCree unless you main him at diamond+ levels OR if the genji just isnt that good and doesnt know how to press spacebar.
03/17/2017 01:35 PMPosted by Obamacare
It's 50% if the genji has dragonblade, otherwise mcree has a clear advantage. land a stun and it's 99% or you better not play mcree.


So you shouldnt be allowed to play McCree unless you main him at diamond+ levels OR if the genji just isnt that good and doesnt know how to press spacebar.


So you want to tell me that an aim based hero must do it's best at gold levels?

All you have to do is landing a stun and rightclick. Flashbang is short range but aoe, and can even avoid reflect.
If you can't consistently get stun->kills on squishies then you need to train both positioning and aim, the hero is fully capable of it, in fact it's the best anti flanker in the game provided you have the requirements.

Otherwise you have a lot of margin to get better, you don't need the game to do it for you.
because she is geoff's favorite character

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum