The lack of developer feedback on D.Va concerns

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Highly Rated
03/03/2017 11:49 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
I have talked about D.Va changes in the past, but unfortunately it just isn't what people want to hear. I understand people are frustrated that she lost a bit of her 'bully' nature before, and really want to play her that way again. The reality is she was too good at too many things and something had to give.

I know that, given the choice, many people would sacrifice power from her tools like Defense Matrix if it allowed her to be played in a more super aggressive role like she did for a time. Overall the concept of a giant mech wreaking havok and dealing a ton of damage as an offense or defense hero is a cool one, but D.Va just isn't built for that. That said, clearly there is a strong desire for that kind of hero and it certainly would be sweet to make another mech-type hero in that space, so that's something for us to consider looking forward.


Wow. And what does Jeff think? I'm honestly in awe.

And like, Geoff, I honestly don't even understand this:

"That said, clearly there is a strong desire for that kind of hero and it certainly would be sweet to make another mech-type hero in that space, so that's something for us to consider looking forward."

For real, did it seem like that's what the community wanted? Holy crap man. 5000 posts later and this is it?
"We're not OP we're not good"

-Dva mains
03/03/2017 12:20 PMPosted by Nerd
03/03/2017 11:49 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
I have talked about D.Va changes in the past, but unfortunately it just isn't what people want to hear. I understand people are frustrated that she lost a bit of her 'bully' nature before, and really want to play her that way again. The reality is she was too good at too many things and something had to give.

I know that, given the choice, many people would sacrifice power from her tools like Defense Matrix if it allowed her to be played in a more super aggressive role like she did for a time. Overall the concept of a giant mech wreaking havok and dealing a ton of damage as an offense or defense hero is a cool one, but D.Va just isn't built for that. That said, clearly there is a strong desire for that kind of hero and it certainly would be sweet to make another mech-type hero in that space, so that's something for us to consider looking forward.


Wow. And what does Jeff think? I'm honestly in awe.

According to the very recent video he compared Winston and D.Va as having the same roles, unless that changed.
03/03/2017 11:49 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
I have talked about D.Va changes in the past, but unfortunately it just isn't what people want to hear.

Well, you said to use defense matrix to guard junkrat tires as part of a description of her role. You should expect pushback and memes from that.

However, the problem is overall you're describing a playstyle that is at odds with Jeff Kaplan's statements on what D.Va should be and what her kit is built around. The way you describe her, she's a highly defensive defense matrix bot. The problem is if you play her like that, which is very similar to Zarya's playstyle, you're better off playing Zarya. In that situation Zarya has better dps, better utility, and a better ult.

I don't think anyone's asking for a full nerf revert, but she's clearly the weakest tank in the lineup right now, can't do her job as described by Jeff, and most of D.Va's pickrate just shifted towards Zarya for the reasons I just said.
03/03/2017 11:49 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
I have talked about D.Va changes in the past, but unfortunately it just isn't what people want to hear. I understand people are frustrated that she lost a bit of her 'bully' nature before, and really want to play her that way again. The reality is she was too good at too many things and something had to give.

I know that, given the choice, many people would sacrifice power from her tools like Defense Matrix if it allowed her to be played in a more super aggressive role like she did for a time. Overall the concept of a giant mech wreaking havok and dealing a ton of damage as an offense or defense hero is a cool one, but D.Va just isn't built for that. That said, clearly there is a strong desire for that kind of hero and it certainly would be sweet to make another mech-type hero in that space, so that's something for us to consider looking forward.

Thanks for the answer, glad my message convinced you to break the silence... try playing her a bit in QP and consider the 300/300 hp/armor situation, not much more to say really. Cheers.
Highly Rated
I'm curious how the communication between devs works since Jeff and Geoff seem to be saying completely different things.

Does Geoff see her as a Defense Matrix bot? I have no idea.
Highly Rated
Welcome to the game where we have the 2 top devs having 2 completely different opinions on how a character should work, resulting in nothing of merit happening at all.
Many D.Va mains, like myself, don't think she is a "trash hero" but rather, an underwhelming hero atm. I have played D.Va, as a D.Va main, since the open beta. I got to rank 70 S1 when D.Va really was unimpressive (because I really loved her character and play style). But now, she feels less useful than other heroes that would fill similar roles.

And this most recent response by Blizzard is disappointing. The community have noted plenty of positive feedback, evidence, and constructive criticisms about the current state of D.Va and Blizzard simply states that they might make a new hero in the future that is better at D.Va stuff than D.Va? That's a confusing response.
I appreciate any response, but that's still disappointing. D.Va is in a state of Jack-of-all-Trades, Master-of-None situation. The community isn't asking D.Va to be a rather unkillable front line tank like she was pre-nerf. But now, she can't properly dive either.

But, and perhaps more importantly, it just doesn't feel fun to play D.Va when she gets melted so unbelievably quickly. It feels that the mech uptime is much shorter. And that subjective experience of whether a character is becoming less fun to play is just as, if not more, important than the stats.

To simply revert the health nerf to the pre-buff state or something to that effect shouldn't be asking too much, I believe.
03/03/2017 11:49 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
I have talked about D.Va changes in the past, but unfortunately it just isn't what people want to hear. I understand people are frustrated that she lost a bit of her 'bully' nature before, and really want to play her that way again. The reality is she was too good at too many things and something had to give.

I know that, given the choice, many people would sacrifice power from her tools like Defense Matrix if it allowed her to be played in a more super aggressive role like she did for a time. Overall the concept of a giant mech wreaking havok and dealing a ton of damage as an offense or defense hero is a cool one, but D.Va just isn't built for that. That said, clearly there is a strong desire for that kind of hero and it certainly would be sweet to make another mech-type hero in that space, so that's something for us to consider looking forward.


So what is she supposed to be then? At the moment the only things she has going for her are her mobility and DM. I am fine giving up the flanking role (taking away her armor and damage killed that) in favor of a skill-set oriented around DM. I enjoy playing her in a defensive role, diving in with DM to save an ally. But if that's the case at least revert the change to DM from a while back that prevents us from toggling it on and off quickly. She is all but useless right now without DM, so if you are going to make a character's entire role revolve around a single ability then you need to make that ability proportionally powerful. The recent fix did a lot for that but the short up time of the ability means that toggling is necessary, and that extra half second between when it goes down and when it can go back up is all it takes to be out of the paper mech again.

The other change I'd like to see is when she is resurrected by Mercy, can she please come back in her mech? As is she is almost a waste to resurrect because 9 times out of 10 she loses her mech again before she can get back in it which sucks for everyone...
I think Geoff should stop posting.

Not because "we don't deserve it"

But because he really worries me with his statements and the direction we seek to be going

Like wow
03/03/2017 11:49 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
I have talked about D.Va changes in the past, but unfortunately it just isn't what people want to hear. I understand people are frustrated that she lost a bit of her 'bully' nature before, and really want to play her that way again. The reality is she was too good at too many things and something had to give.

I know that, given the choice, many people would sacrifice power from her tools like Defense Matrix if it allowed her to be played in a more super aggressive role like she did for a time. Overall the concept of a giant mech wreaking havok and dealing a ton of damage as an offense or defense hero is a cool one, but D.Va just isn't built for that. That said, clearly there is a strong desire for that kind of hero and it certainly would be sweet to make another mech-type hero in that space, so that's something for us to consider looking forward.


While everyone agree's that something had to be taken away, it was not something, or one thing, or a balance, it was just a straight up nerf to both survivability and damage, so.... yeah.
03/03/2017 12:09 PMPosted by Mister36
03/03/2017 11:57 AMPosted by Kalkz
THANKS GEOFF

OK D.VA MAINS. GO HOME AND STOP WHINING PLS, FIND A HERO THAT U CAN ACTUALLY AIM WITH .....


03/03/2017 11:54 AMPosted by syliox
Geoff i think it's time you move onto another job. Your tank characters suck !@# at tanking. You are an idiot to remove tank power from a tank. The problem is their damage. Zarya, Roadhog and D.Va at one point just took up the slots of damage. Seriously you don't know what you are doing. Look at your retarded Bastion. You literally made him a TANK and gave Ana a better role now. You suck $%^ dude.


I love D.Va and I think she is fine. The abilities are just 2nd place to how you move and place yourself with her.

Both the types of posts above are not needed and completely useless.


It's not far off from the truth though. Seriously the "tank" class are not really tanks. They literally did the opposite of what was needed for D.Va. Even when she had 400 armor she was still pretty easy to blow through the HP. She's nothing but a giant head. All the armor did was kinda negate that hitbox feature. She was just kind of like a Roadhog. Squishy, but high life. Now she feels handicapped with little armor to help negate the hitbox. The tank damage most definitely needed to be reduced. Fatass Roadhog needs the same. Even Zarya does a crap ton. They don't act as primary tanks. You literally just chose Reinhardt as your tank and the other "tanks" just fill the roles of DPS on your team. It's making the game stale. Tanks need to tank. Ana is a problem too, but she can be fixed way easier if they just tapped her healing down a tiny bit more so the burst heals are not abusive.
03/03/2017 12:01 PMPosted by Kanon06
03/03/2017 11:49 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
I have talked about D.Va changes in the past, but unfortunately it just isn't what people want to hear. I understand people are frustrated that she lost a bit of her 'bully' nature before, and really want to play her that way again. The reality is she was too good at too many things and something had to give.

I know that, given the choice, many people would sacrifice power from her tools like Defense Matrix if it allowed her to be played in a more super aggressive role like she did for a time. Overall the concept of a giant mech wreaking havok and dealing a ton of damage as an offense or defense hero is a cool one, but D.Va just isn't built for that. That said, clearly there is a strong desire for that kind of hero and it certainly would be sweet to make another mech-type hero in that space, so that's something for us to consider looking forward.


but she was said to be a disruptive tank like Winston, when Dva tries to fly out after diving in, 9/10 times she will be kicked from her mech.
Winston can at least drop a bubble that can block his backside. Either you guys are mislabeling her or refuse to see the slight error.


You know D.Va can get back into her mech? People always compare DM with Winstons bubble, but D.Va has DM and the chance getting out of the mech alive and then back in. If she wouldn't be supposed to lose the mech (when diveing what is her purpose) she wouldn't have the ability to get a new one. The "old beefy" D.Va gave people the impression that D.Va can dive in and should get 1-2 picks without getting in danger of losing her mech. Do you think Winston can get 10/10 in get a pick and leave with full health? He can get stomped so quickly it is insane. Also with his high CD of his bubble he can't dive as often as D.Va.

If they change/buff her they should look either at her boosters:

A) Make it faster/more range
B) Reduce cooldown 1 second so she can dive out quicker
C) Give her damage resistance during boosters (20%?)

or at her critbox by making it either:

A) Smaller
B) Reduce critbonus to 50-75% instead of 100%.

Like Littleman said. Change her damage and she becomes a high mobile DPS with high health, change her health she becomes a anchor-tank. There are not many ways to change her survivability, but remember she can get her mech back. Why would the old beefy D.Va even need (besides her ultimate) the possible ability to call a new mech, when i like never got destoryed? Winston doesn't has that. Make it like this:

Dive in. Harras/disrupt maybe getting a pick. Dive out.
Now when your
A) Mech gets destroyed while diving out. Get behind the shield of the anchortank/in safety. Then use Baby D.Va to make distance fire. Get mech back. Solution.
B) mech doesn't get destroyed, heal up and dive back in.

Don't demand that she can always dive in and out without the risk of losing her mech. Being able to get a new one is a key ability of her. Imagine you couldn't do that and you need to survive as Baby D.Va as long as you are alive. Then beefy D.Va would be just fine.
I'm not a D.Va main but dislike Geoff's response. I would be okay with D.Va being less effective of a dive-in-and-bully-people tank if she were still good at something, but she isn't. She was underperforming, they overtuned her a little, then they nerfed her to worse than she was to begin with. She needs help now. If they want her to be more tanky, okay, then give her more armor, perhaps move her crit box, give her more DM usage, but keep her damage low or increase the recharge on booster. Alternately, keep her health and crit box the way it is but give her more DM usage and increase the range on her guns. As is, she is just bad. Saying "that isn't the role she is meant to fill" is all well and good, but if she doesn't fill any other role well either, then it's a problem.

Despite that....

03/03/2017 12:17 PMPosted by Gnome
03/03/2017 11:49 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
I understand people are frustrated that she lost a bit of her 'bully' nature before, and really want to play her that way again.


Oh don't worry, they've taken that nature to the forums and are still living out their dreams.


lmao, this gets a like from me.
03/03/2017 12:21 PMPosted by Winks
03/03/2017 11:49 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
I have talked about D.Va changes in the past, but unfortunately it just isn't what people want to hear.

Well, you said to use defense matrix to guard junkrat tires as part of a description of her role. You should expect pushback and memes from that.

However, the problem is overall you're describing a playstyle that is at odds with Jeff Kaplan's statements on what D.Va should be and what her kit is built around. The way you describe her, she's a highly defensive defense matrix bot. The problem is if you play her like that, which is very similar to Zarya's playstyle, you're better off playing Zarya. In that situation Zarya has better dps, better utility, and a better ult.

I don't think anyone's asking for a full nerf revert, but she's clearly the weakest tank in the lineup right now, can't do her job as described by Jeff, and most of D.Va's pickrate just shifted towards Zarya for the reasons I just said.


I feel like Jeff and Geoff views on Dva are conflicting. I've said it literally 4 times now that Dva has identity issues as to what her roles was after that nerf.

I don't even mind the role change to a from a dive tank to what she is now... just gives me the tools so I can effectively do what I'm supposed to. That's all I'm asking for.

Come on devs... :(
03/03/2017 12:16 PMPosted by Aberepings
03/03/2017 12:14 PMPosted by Kanon06
I think devs should at least try 300/300, a lot of the community feels it would put her in a well balanced spot and it wouldnt hurt to at least try it.


Yeah, I don't get why they are refusing to try this? Its the MOST common request in overall Overwatch community for D.Va

Edit: At least acknowledge what is wrong with trying that or if you have tried it internally or not. /:


True they should at least give a comment on why they do not want to give it a try. Just toss it on the PTR, read some feed back and remove if they don't feel its right.

Idk I really like that they did comment on this thread but when it comes to dva she still gets ignored :/
03/03/2017 12:20 PMPosted by Nerd
03/03/2017 11:49 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
I have talked about D.Va changes in the past, but unfortunately it just isn't what people want to hear. I understand people are frustrated that she lost a bit of her 'bully' nature before, and really want to play her that way again. The reality is she was too good at too many things and something had to give.

I know that, given the choice, many people would sacrifice power from her tools like Defense Matrix if it allowed her to be played in a more super aggressive role like she did for a time. Overall the concept of a giant mech wreaking havok and dealing a ton of damage as an offense or defense hero is a cool one, but D.Va just isn't built for that. That said, clearly there is a strong desire for that kind of hero and it certainly would be sweet to make another mech-type hero in that space, so that's something for us to consider looking forward.


Wow. And what does Jeff think? I'm honestly in awe.

And like, Geoff, I honestly don't even understand this:

"That said, clearly there is a strong desire for that kind of hero and it certainly would be sweet to make another mech-type hero in that space, so that's something for us to consider looking forward."

For real, did it seem like that's what the community wanted? Holy crap man. 5000 posts later and this is it?


He didn't even read any of the megathread. And he is the hero designer. Jeff is not, but problem is Geoff has more power than Jeff when it comes to hero design.

It's sad to see a Overwatch team member not willing to understand DVA frustrations, and concerns. His role is to check it out and balance, but can we force him to read? No.
Shots were fired today. Think I'll steer clear until the black powder smoke clears. If that's said about D.Va, I wonder what would be said of McCree. I agree you guys at least need a health turnaround.

#fixhercowboy
Wow. Still wow. You can't seriously expect the intelligent and dedicated members of your community to respond well to this?
03/03/2017 12:27 PMPosted by Nerd
Wow. Still wow. You can't seriously expect the intelligent and dedicated members of your community to respond well to this?


I have not read every post ITT but the ones I have read seem to be responding fine, were asking what role dva is now / commenting on how she can't be a disrupter with the state shes in / talking about her being a DM bot

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