Sombra still sucks. Really?

General Discussion
She still needs a little love. I think a nice addition to her kit would be the ability to hack non-hero units (turrets, barriers like Orisa's, shield gens, etc) without it breaking her stealth. And a slight increase to stealth duration or reduction to cooldown (0.5 or 1.0 second) would help out a bit.
03/03/2017 06:57 AMPosted by Rune
So just looking at her winrate

Winrate means nothing. Symmetra used to have win rate over 60%.

And besides, Sombra is really good right now. EMP obliterates Bastion teams and will be a very good counter to Orisa+Rein.

03/03/2017 07:35 AMPosted by Zillah
they should give her a small aim-assist

Aim assist is a detriment on PC.
I mean ive played a good chunk of sombra but that pick could've been better off on say a soldier or reaper and even hanzo deals more consistent damage enve though is scatter arrow is bs

And besides, Sombra is really good right now. EMP obliterates Bastion teams and will be a very good counter to Orisa+Rein.


And yet, I'll still get hear"Uhhhh. How about we DON'T have a Sombra? Sombra switch. Sombra is useless. Sombra go kill yourself." in every lobby while my team troll picks Hanzo, Widow, Torbjorn and Tracer to protest. Even when I give a good explanation to what I bring to the team, it's always the first thing I hear. Uhh.. don't play Sombra.

A lot of the problem is because there's never any indication as to what I'm doing. No voice lines other than my own call outs to tell people "hey, this health packs is hacked!" or "Bastion has been hacked", so people just assume Sombra is terrible. Even Reinhardt says his barrier is going down when it's low. Why can't Sombra have something to show how she's affecting the enemy team?
03/03/2017 09:45 AMPosted by Asmodeus
Even when I give a good explanation to what I bring to the team

Well it's probably because you're a gold with only 5 hours with her. I don't have faith in gold Widows or Genjis, either. She's not simple to play on some maps. Unless it's 2cp or Eichenwalde A, I don't want to see Sombra from anybody that doesn't have a lot of time on Sombra.

03/03/2017 09:25 AMPosted by Sandity
I mean ive played a good chunk of sombra but that pick could've been better off on say a soldier or reaper and even hanzo deals more consistent damage enve though is scatter arrow is bs

When did 20 minutes become a good chunk?
Even if you played her a lot on PTR, her buffs have changed how she plays.
In the state she is right now I often use her for precision strikes.
Because of her lack of damage / sustain abilities I have to rely on my team to draw the fire and then strike. But i find her opportunist ability to be hard to utilise because how strong healing in this game is and the opposing team will usually have two healers and the fact that it shows only targets obscured by level geometry bothers me.
03/03/2017 10:07 AMPosted by Skaral
In the state she is right now I often use her for precision strikes.
Because of her lack of damage / sustain abilities I have to rely on my team to draw the fire and then strike. But i find her opportunist ability to be hard to utilise because how strong healing in this game is and the opposing team will usually have two healers and the fact that it shows only targets obscured by level geometry bothers me.


Watch Cody. It is far more beneficial too use your half !@# dps to stick with the team until it is time to strike.

Go in, get the high ground, hack and spray then rejoin team.

Always call your Jacks on voice and time with pushes
03/03/2017 08:43 AMPosted by CorgiCyborgi
I think all she needs to be viable is a damage boost to enemies that she hacks. How big of a boost is up for debate/testing but it would incentivise players to use her hacking ability on more enemies instead of playing as a health pack babysitter, her ult would be more useful since she could do more damage with it since it'd hack those around her, and it would help her DPS without being OP like it probably would end up being if they just gave her a universal boost in damage. Her gun spread wouldn't be as much of an issue, either, because if you're close enough to hack, her gun's spread isn't as much of a problem(as long as she gets a damage boost to the hacked enemy).

But yes, in her current state, she's pretty much a joke. Blizzard is wrong with their thinking that people just don't know how to play her. There are many that are clueless on how to use her but even the ones that do know how to use her don't help the team nearly as much as if they would just pick a different hero. Just because some pros can be useful with her doesn't mean she's fine


Im surprised not many have said this or upvoted it. This is my number one on my wish list. Damage bonus for SOMBRA ONLY on hacked targets.

A close number 2 is faster decloaking. This has been mentioned before, and rightfully so. Anyone with proper functioning human ears can hear you decloaking from a mile away. Currently, decloaking means that the enemy starts shooting at you before Sombra can shoot back. If you decloak far away then run up to your target, you may as well be Tracer, Gengi, 76, etc, because you're wasting a ton of time trying to be quiet and they have abilities they can use during a fight, which brings me to my next two points...

These are way way down the list. The first two are like food and water for survival. These are not absolutely vital to her viability, but still things I think would help her.

Hack shouldn't be interrupted when hit. If you want to hack the 76 while he's unloading on you, then you should be able to. You'll be dead in less than a second, but you should still be able to use your ability just like any other hero, however poorly timed. "Congratulations 76 is hacked, you're dead, but good job hacking and not shooting him." (She should still decloak when hit though)

Lastly, hacking 76 and bastion's ultimate should work.

***Edit***

This shouldn't be necessary, but because it seems to be important to some people I was rank 62, diamond, diamond for the first 3 seasons which by the stats posted by Jeff today is top 10%. Im not amazing, but I'm still pretty good. I play on ps4, but because of my twice broken right thumb I'm not as good as I could be. I don't play Overwatch on PC, but I have played many FPS games including TF2 for many, many years on PC in the past. I'm much better with a mouse, so don't dismiss me as "just a console pleb". Seems to happen often on these forums.
03/03/2017 06:57 AMPosted by Rune
So just looking at her winrate at http://masteroverwatch.com/heroes and she is by far the worst in the game. 41% is awful while Symmetra is sitting at 59.5%. The closest to Sombra is Hanzo at 47% to give you some context into how bad Sombra really is.

Her launching in this state makes sense right? Heroes often launch either OP or UP in many games. But her STAYING like this for so long makes me question what the devs are going for here. How much data do you need to know she needs a buff? I don't buy that excuse. Whatever the reasoning, how long she's been in a bad state has made sure that the fanbase in general doesn't play her and will quickly bash you if you do play her.

I don't get it. Why spend the time and money creating her if you didn't want her to be any good?
Preaching to the choir-widowmaker
03/03/2017 10:12 AMPosted by Daggoth1408
Preaching to the choir-widowmaker

Relax, your hero already dominated the game for 4 months. You'll have your time again.
Heck Taimou was playing Widow at Apex S2, too.

And I really hope Blizzard were watching the crowd's reaction.
That's what people want to see.
Anything Sombra does Tracer does better
Tracer does everything better than her
(No she can't)
(Yes she can)
(No she can't)
(Yes she can)
(No she can't)
(Yes she can, yes she can)

Anything Sombra hacks, Tracer kills faster
All without dying right after it, too
(No she can't)
(Yes she can)
(No she can't)
(Yes she can)
(No she can't)
(Yes she can, yes she can)

Sombra hacks your ulti
Making supports salty
"What, I couldn't hear you
I just killed your Zen"

I'll just flank behind their backs!
"Have they seen you before?"
Yeah?
"Well good luck with that."


thanks FUNKe

Blizzard really needs to resolve the issue of hacking being kind of worthless over just...shooting people dead. If you can't hack away 90% of the stuff that would keep people from being shot dead (Transcendence, Zarya Bubbles, Ice Block, basically every self-preservation skill, even Fortify), then there's really no reason to hack instead of shooting.
03/03/2017 10:29 AMPosted by SkyeSharpe
issue of hacking being kind of worthless over just...shooting people dead

You're hacking the wrong things.
Hack the Rein or the Roadhog and your team has free reign over a fight.
Hack Bastion, and you get to push.

Hacking vs shooting
Even Tracer can't always secure a kill midfight, Hack is as good as killing somebody, especially a hero like Roadhog or Reinhardt which become near total garbage without their abilities. Bastion is really easy to kill when hacked too.

And of course
EMP
03/03/2017 07:05 AMPosted by moineau
Is the stats recorded since the launch of game or over a specific period?

If it's since launch, you cannot expect the win-rate change all in a sudden because the old stats still has a big influence to the latest stats.

eg. Let's say you play Mercy really badly before and lost 40 games out of 50, win-rate = 20%.
Then you get better and the latest 10 game you won 5 out of it.

The total win rate of you on Mercy would be 45/ 60 = 25%. However, if you look at the latest 10 games, your win rate is actually 50%.

Now expand the stats to a global context, it is much much harder to raise the overall stats as the data are so massive.

Unless the stats are taken in a specific period (latest period), otherwise it is not accurate to determine the actual performance of a hero.


The winrate is probably based off every game Sombra has been in, not a time period.
03/03/2017 10:44 AMPosted by F2H
03/03/2017 10:29 AMPosted by SkyeSharpe
issue of hacking being kind of worthless over just...shooting people dead

You're hacking the wrong things.
Hack the Rein or the Roadhog and your team has free reign over a fight.
Hack Bastion, and you get to push.

Hacking vs shooting
Even Tracer can't always secure a kill midfight, Hack is as good as killing somebody, especially a hero like Roadhog or Reinhardt which become near total garbage without their abilities. Bastion is really easy to kill when hacked too.

And of course
EMP


Hack is nice but not more. What does hack help, when you are not even stop the !@#$ing cooldowns? Hack is a great tool, hack can help a lot but hack is unreliable.
I play Sombra a lot. My main issue with her is the spread of her gun, and the fact that she ANNOUNCES LOUDLY THAT SHES BEHIND AN ENEMY, so it's not like you can take advantage of really flanking them. I'd be ok with this if the spread of her gun was tighter so that she could have a better time hit and running.

Edit: Many people in this thread have a lot to say about the tighter hitbox thing. Lets dig into that:

If Sombra floats somewhere between 'assault', 'utility' and 'support' she leans somewhere closer to the 'utility-support' role. This means that her damage output is not nearly as important to her role as much as all the other things such as: Enemies hacked, health pack upkeep, EMPing the enemy team and keeping up with Opportunist.

If Sombra is to be the 'spy' of this game, she looses all sense of 'backstabbing' the enemy the moment she opens her mouth. I'm Puerto Rican, I think we are some of the most vocal of the bunch of the Carribean and dios mio Sombra has got to pipe it down if she wants to get any successful kills while flanking or hunting an enemy. This is important to look at because the point of stealth is the element of surprise.

If Sombra unstealths too far away, she risks not getting too many hits off on her target. If she is midrange or closer, she has a higher kill opportunity chance but is loud AF for the enemy team. Most players will attempt to uncloak midrange/short range and get as many shots as they possibly can because the spread is so wild that you have to be up in their cara*** to get a chance to land worthwhile headshots.

This removes the element of surprise because she's always putting attention on herself when she comes out. This takes away the 'unfairness' of stealth classes that many people hate, because no one likes to be surprised by a death. I would argue that 'surprise by death' is sort of common in Overwatch in between getting knocked off maps and Roadhog's hook, but I'm not a designer so lets just go with what they want.

If we are going to keep her flagging herself down after stealth, then I just think it makes sense to tighten the spread because at least You can get a few worthwhile shots in. Currently, her spread is so that unless your accuracy is very good - you are probably not going to finish off that McCree or Genji prior to having to Translocate back. Oh, and did I mention that when you do it'll take roughly another 10-15 seconds to reengage the fight? Assuming that they don't heal by then, that is.

Sombra feels good when she gets to do her design intent: hit and run. If you ever leave a Sombra anywhere in a fight, she will hack your team into oblivion and you will regret it. She feels good when you can translocate around a corner to come back to a fight that you know you'll be safe in. She feels good when you EMP an enemy team. She just doesn't feel good when you're attempting to flank or assault someone - which feels unintuitive to her design overall.

*****Cara means face in Spanish. Like "Get up out of my maldito Cara, Reinhardt."


Blizzard, unlike with other hero's, is attempting to be careful with Sombra. They don't want her ruining the game. But, what is happening is that since she is a bit underpowered (bugs factor in), she contributes to loses (more than most characters).

The main problem with Sombra is the fact that when her abilities are on cooldown, she can't contribute much. Now, this doesn't mean she can never contribute with her weapon. There are times when she can. It's just that her weapon is almost like reapers, or DVA's mech weapon. It doesn't do much from range (haha, no surprise to people who play this game).

Now, with all this said. Blizzard either needs to address a number of different things with Sombra (translocator, stealth, bugs, audio, cooldowns etc.). Or they have to take a look at her weapon.

It has to be either one of those two major things, or both. Either way she is basically an alt bot right now, that can contribute a little bit with her hacks on occasion, and damage on occasion (she can get a pick here and there).

- 20 second translocator, 4 second cooldown, no cooldown if not used.

- Tighten up the spread on her weapon (10%), add 5 meters of effective range.
- Make hacked enemies show up (purple, purple skull above head)

- Make hacked health packs show up for allies

- fix bugs (and adjust some things, translocator toss is pathetic for one).

Also, consider keeping her speed available after she goes uncloaked by bullets or when she just decides to go uncloaked.
I think her worst weakness is that the slightest damage stops her hack--even Bastion can heal through damage, but Sombra gives up the moment she gets touched. Maybe slowing it down instead of downright stopping her might make her more useful.

She seems to manage against Orisa quite well from first tests, but lets be honest, not only is she a difficult character to play right (I've spent 40+ hours on her and have only recently figured her out completely), she has had the most hero-breaking bugs and takes immense skill to truly play stealthily.

On top of that, she takes a full second to come out of thermoptic camo, and Sombra can't do anything except wait to not be invisible. For an entire second, anyone can attack her, but she can't do anything. Going into the lore, this makes no sense: a) she stole the tech from Tracer (I think), but Tracer doesn't deal with this problem, and b) why would a character perfectly capable of running around not be able to pull a trigger or point hacky-fingers at someone?

I have to say I liked her last buff: Blizzard increased her skills just a little. It wasn't enough, but it's much better than overdoing the buff (Bastion) and then having to go back to fix the issue. Plus, I'll be honest, I like not competing to pick Sombra 90% of the time.
03/03/2017 10:47 AMPosted by theRealOG
The winrate is probably based off every game Sombra has been in, not a time period

No, it's based off every game ended with Sombra, which is why Symmetra's win rate is so inflated, as people swap from Symmetra.
[quote]
- 20 second translocator, 4 second cooldown, no cooldown if not used.

- Tighten up the spread on her weapon (10%), add 5 meters of effective range.
- Make hacked enemies show up (purple, purple skull above head)

- Make hacked health packs show up for allies

- fix bugs (and adjust some things, translocator toss is pathetic for one).

Also, consider keeping her speed available after she goes uncloaked by bullets or when she just decides to go uncloaked.


You've some real good ideas here. I'm somewhat against buffing her weapon only to keep her as a stealth and not a pure DPS character, but having hacked enemies/healthpacks highlighted would be an interesting concept. It would certainly increase her usefulness, since I know plenty of players who don't actually know where healthpacks are (baffling to any good Sombra player). Plus this would really increase her ult-farming ability, which is already among the fastest.

The bugs need to be fixed, no question. The sounds, if anything, need to be quieted down. I'm no professional hacker, but I don't go shouting my entrance everywhere I go.
Well, Sombra can hack Orisa even during Fortify. Also she can hack her ult which is pretty dope.
So at least we have that.
Sombra is already more viable in the bastion meta, i think the devs will wait for orisa to release and then give her small buffs.

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