D.Va Ultimate is (still) Not Totally Fair

General Discussion
This is my first day on the forums, and it looks like there's a lot of discussion on D.Va's balance going on, but I don't want to jump into the middle of that.
My suggestion/request for D.Va is a simple one: Make her vulnerable to her own Self-Destruct. It makes no sense that she's invulnerable to it. If Junkrat's Rip-tire can kill him, why should D.Va's ultimate behave any differently? As it is, dudes can activate her Self-Destruct, and then bail and put fire on opponents before it has even detonated. Meanwhile, they can stand in the middle of the chaos and they're fine. I can't be the only person bothered by this. Of course, lots of players want her to be invincible to her own ability because I assume they like things to be as easy as possible. I don't. I think there's a solution that would make everyone happy: Make her vulnerable to her own Self-Destruct, but make her ejection height higher. That way, players can still lay down fire on clusters of enemies upon activation, they're somewhat vulnerable to suicide themselves, but not AS vulnerable, and people like me are happy because the ability is fair and appropriate. If her Self-Destruct worked in this way, D.Va players could die in their own blasts, but it shouldn't happen unless their play is sloppy (which is what a "suicided" player in ANY multiplayer shooter is being punished for; sloppy play).
That seems fair to me. I'm sure there are millions who will disagree with me, so I doubt there's much point in mentioning it.
In 80% of cases you can run from her ult.
Her ult is fine as is, imo. But, since you mentioned it, I'm totally for making Junkrat immune to his tire's explosion.

:D
the giant ! is not enough for you?

we used to die to it

and that was with 4 second timer

with 3 second timer people will die even more too it.

no bueno man
03/02/2017 11:30 AMPosted by Nazrin
the giant ! is not enough for you?

we used to die to it

and that was with 4 second timer

with 3 second timer people will die even more too it.

no bueno man


Yeah dude, but if she has more height from her ejection, she'll clear the blast cause she'll be above it. It's only possible to die from your own blast if you activate it while standing anyway. If using your thrusters to launch the ultimate, you shouldn't be anywhere near it.
The ! has nothing to do with it. I'm only talking about D.Va being invincible to her own blast. I'm not talking about playing against her or how the blast works on opponents.
Dude it sucked to die to your own blast you couldn't contest at all with using her ult it's also only 3 secs till boom. Baby Dva has no attacks except bunny blaster she has no way to get away or protect herself from it. That's why it was changed that and Dvas died more to themselves than other heroes.
03/02/2017 11:39 AMPosted by paulwarford
03/02/2017 11:30 AMPosted by Nazrin
the giant ! is not enough for you?

we used to die to it

and that was with 4 second timer

with 3 second timer people will die even more too it.

no bueno man


Yeah dude, but if she has more height from her ejection, she'll clear the blast cause she'll be above it. It's only possible to die from your own blast if you activate it while standing anyway. If using your thrusters to launch the ultimate, you shouldn't be anywhere near it.
The ! has nothing to do with it. I'm only talking about D.Va being invincible to her own blast. I'm not talking about playing against her or how the blast works on opponents.


thats even worse

height doesnt help her get away from !@#$ all it does is gives her air time where she has no horizontal mobiltiy

i could understand if baby d.va had abilties like a dodge roll or a sprint but she has noting

all it does is nerf an already over nerfed hero.
That was the case originally, then they made it so she was invulnerable to her own blast as people were too hesitant to use the ultimate because 9 times out of 10 it was a kamikaze attack.

Besides, Self-Destruct and protecting Rip-Tires is pretty much all D.Va has left now, leave her be.
I'm not gonna keep going with it cause we'll just go in circles. I didn't play a lot of D.Va before the switch, so maybe I would've died and I'd be pissed off about it and want her to be invincible too. I doubt it, but it's possible. Maybe height isn't the way to go, but it's a mech, so anything Blizzard wanted to do, they could do and it would still make sense. She could shoot straight backwards just far enough to clear the blast instead of straight up when ejecting, for example. That way, you could only damage yourself if you ran into the radius after setting off the ultimate, in which case you deserve to die.
I agree that if she had an evasive roll or something that would make her vulnerability more sensible. I'll give you that.
I'm not siding with you on her blaster, though. That weapon is way more powerful than it seems. I don't even play that much D.Va, and I'm only average at the game, but I have no trouble dropping dudes with her blaster.
Also, I know a lot of people say she's a nerfed character, which is insane. She's one of the sturdiest tanks there is and she's the only one who doesn't have to reload her weapon. That's continuous fire. If all of these guys can't get it together with continuous fire, I don't know what to tell you. Her Fusion Cannons probably do similar damage numbers to Winston's Tesla Cannon, and that needs to be reloaded just to bring a soft character like Junkrat or Reaper to 0.
03/02/2017 11:47 AMPosted by MrDSir
That was the case originally, then they made it so she was invulnerable to her own blast as people were too hesitant to use the ultimate because 9 times out of 10 it was a kamikaze attack.

Besides, Self-Destruct and protecting Rip-Tires is pretty much all D.Va has left now, leave her be.


Fair enough, but I don't understand how everyone is complaining that her character is unbalanced or behind the other tanks. That IS what people are saying, right? That makes zero sense to me. There must be something in competitive, orchestrated play that I'm missing. I've never once played her and thought she was missing something. Like I just said in a reply, she's the only character who doesn't have to reload, she has more dependable mobility than the other tanks (Reinhart's charge is a straight line and Winston's jump can't change direction on the fly. while Roadhog and Zarya are just slow), and I can't remember her HP compared to the other tanks, but I know she's higher than Zarya, and probably Winston. How does she not fit with the other tanks?
The only negative thought I've ever had about D.Va is when someone drops her blast on top of my team while she stands in the middle of us and shoots whoever's trying to get out of range, which is why I brought all of this up in the first place.
I personally use the patented move called the "get out of the !@#$ing way"
03/02/2017 12:02 PMPosted by warford
Fair enough, but I don't understand how everyone is complaining that her character is unbalanced or behind the other tanks. That IS what people are saying, right? That makes zero sense to me. There must be something in competitive, orchestrated play that I'm missing. I've never once played her and thought she was missing something. Like I just said in a reply, she's the only character who doesn't have to reload, she has more dependable mobility than the other tanks (Reinhart's charge is a straight line and Winston's jump can't change direction on the fly. while Roadhog and Zarya are just slow), and I can't remember her HP compared to the other tanks, but I know she's higher than Zarya, and probably Winston. How does she not fit with the other tanks?
The only negative thought I've ever had about D.Va is when someone drops her blast on top of my team while she stands in the middle of us and shoots whoever's trying to get out of range, which is why I brought all of this up in the first place.


The biggest issue, at the moment, is her viability with her HP to armor ratio. Since this is a very polarizing topic I'm going to try to stay just with statistics and numbers.

Upon the game's release D.Va was very under-picked, mainly because she couldn't tank well. Her blasters reduced her walk speed a lot more than they do now and her defense matrix was a button with a cool-down like Winston's bubble shield instead of the toggle that it is currently. So she could fly and get in the way, but could not effectively do any damage because shooting practically brought her to a stand still and other heroes could just run away and she could not really tank outside of just getting in the way because after being used her "shield" was on cool-down. This too was during the time when her Self-Destruct could kill her, so D.Va essentially couldn't do damage, couldn't tank, and her ultimate sent her back to spawn unless you launched it very far away from you. Survive-ability wasn't too much of an issue this point, she had 100HP/400 Armor, she just couldn't do much.

Armor is different than HP because it halves the damage of any particle, so at this point her effective HP was 900.

Flash forward to late-S2/early-S3 and D.Va gets a buff. Self Destruct no longer kills D.Va (and has a shorter fuse), her walk speed in mech while firing was increased, Defense Matrix became a toggle that could be up for up to 4 seconds before needing to recharge, and they gave her an extra 100 HP, bringing her to 200 HP / 400 Armor. I may be missing some adjustments to her guns, but these were the main changes. Around this time Ana was also introduced, and the tank meta came to be. Now the issue was that she was too hard to kill when she was in her mech. With an effective HP of 1000, and with Ana and a Lucio simultaneously healing D.Va she became extremely difficult to de-mech. And with that came the outcry to nerf.

The walk-speed while shooting and change to Defense Matrix were the features that were asked for, the extra HP was just given to her. Mid- to late-season three came a patch that adjusted her mech guns, effectively making it so she had to be closer to a target to do effective damage, and her HP to armor ratio was swapped to 400 HP 200 armor, making her effective HP 800. This does not seem like a too much of a change but D.Va's headbox, where critical damage (x2) is dealt, is right dead-center on the front of her character model. So having to be basically touching an enemy to do any effective damage and having such a large crit box meant that she became very easy to de-mech, and while D.Va and her pistol can do some damage, she has the same HP as Tracer, 150, with none of the movement abilities or health re-gen with Recall. To put that into perspective, with the 400/200 ratio Widowmaker alone can take D.Va out of her mech from full in 2.5 fully charged headshots (which are not hard to land on D.Va given the above reason), which takes roughly 4 seconds to do, and then take out-of-mech D.Va out with a half charged headshot, though D.Va's crit-box is a lot smaller at this point.

And that brings us to today. The main question is what is her role, or what is it supposed to be? A lot of the community perceives her as a dive or flank tank – not a main tank like Reinhardt but one that quickly jump onto an enemy group either head on or from an unexpected angle to start an engagement. The main calls have been to revert her HP/Armor to the original 100 HP 400 Armor or change it to 300 HP 300 Armor, either of which would bring her effective HP up to 900, greater than what she has now but less than the 1000 she had during the period of time where most considered her overpowered. There's also been suggestions to change the size of her crit box while in mech so that she can survive longer while getting within hugging range to deal effective damage with her new gun mechanics.

The only change that there's been since then was a change to her Defense Matrix to make it erase shots immediately instead of having to travel a minimum distance. Some are frustrated that the development team have largely been unresponsive to D.Va related threads, which is why there's still a commotion going on.

Er, sorry for the essay.
I think it's probably the least reliable or hell it's the worst ulti in the game. in %95 of the situations you won't die unless you are stupid or something. it's about a clearing or holding the area rather than killing people
03/02/2017 11:25 AMPosted by warford
This is my first day on the forums, and it looks like there's a lot of discussion on D.Va's balance going on, but I don't want to jump into the middle of that.
My suggestion/request for D.Va is a simple one: Make her vulnerable to her own Self-Destruct. It makes no sense that she's invulnerable to it. If Junkrat's Rip-tire can kill him, why should D.Va's ultimate behave any differently? As it is, dudes can activate her Self-Destruct, and then bail and put fire on opponents before it has even detonated. Meanwhile, they can stand in the middle of the chaos and they're fine. I can't be the only person bothered by this. Of course, lots of players want her to be invincible to her own ability because I assume they like things to be as easy as possible. I don't. I think there's a solution that would make everyone happy: Make her vulnerable to her own Self-Destruct, but make her ejection height higher. That way, players can still lay down fire on clusters of enemies upon activation, they're somewhat vulnerable to suicide themselves, but not AS vulnerable, and people like me are happy because the ability is fair and appropriate. If her Self-Destruct worked in this way, D.Va players could die in their own blasts, but it shouldn't happen unless their play is sloppy (which is what a "suicided" player in ANY multiplayer shooter is being punished for; sloppy play).
That seems fair to me. I'm sure there are millions who will disagree with me, so I doubt there's much point in mentioning it.

If did wasn't invulnerable then should her teammates be invulnerable too? How would that be a helpful ult at all? It's already hard enough to get people with it when there is so much cover on every map.
I'm curious how someone at 97 level in experience is actually bringing this topic up in a serious capacity.
For every D.Va getting a 4-6 man ult, there's a D.Va's getting no one in their ult. It balances out.
Your argument (or lack there of) and the communities experience with her ultimate are 100% polar opposites. I don't even understand your reasoning. It's not having it easy, it's not OP and being able to shoot through it is the least of pressure she can do if anyone chases her behind corners while she ditched her mech.

Most people, most everyone, since the dawn of the release, does not get obliterated by her ultimate. It's one of the easiest to waste, one of the easiest to miss (aside from McCree) and is usually more meant to be a area denier than a confirmed kill move.

Your idea of fair is because of the logic (in an illogical game) behind it and how it should function in comparison to other explosive type character abilities such as Junkrats. The reality is balance is done individually for each character and trying to apply logic across the spectrum like "They are both explosives but one survives it and the other doesn't" is not a way to analyse balance.

She's already been nerfed, the suggestion to gimp her more is not the way to go
Going to nit-pick on a few details here:

03/02/2017 03:06 PMPosted by MrDSir

Armor is different than HP because it halves the damage of any particle, so at this point her effective HP was 900.

Only vs hits with less than 10 damage (e.g. shotgun pellets). Armor reduces attacks by half to a maximum of 5 damage. Any damage source higher than that is reduced by 5.

03/02/2017 03:06 PMPosted by MrDSir

Flash forward to late-S2/early-S3 and D.Va gets a buff. Self Destruct no longer kills D.Va (and has a shorter fuse), her walk speed in mech while firing was increased, Defense Matrix became a toggle that could be up for up to 4 seconds before needing to recharge, and they gave her an extra 100 HP, bringing her to 200 HP / 400 Armor. I may be missing some adjustments to her guns, but these were the main changes. Around this time Ana was also introduced, and the tank meta came to be. Now the issue was that she was too hard to kill when she was in her mech. With an effective HP of 1000, and with Ana and a Lucio simultaneously healing D.Va she became extremely difficult to de-mech. And with that came the outcry to nerf.


The buff near the end of S2 (Nov 15) was the increased movement speed while firing and the +100 buff to her regular health.

The matrix rework along with her ult changes was done much earlier in late S1 along with Ana's release (July 18th). With a minor nerf to the matrix regen delay some time in September.
you can hide behind a tree and live.

I think it's balanced.
03/02/2017 03:06 PMPosted by MrDSir
Armor is different than HP because it halves the damage of any particle, so at this point her effective HP was 900.


Armor reduces damage by a maximum of 5 points or 50% whichever is less. Calculated after criticals.

This means depending on the target attacking D.Va, and where, the effective HP increase is of the armor layer as low as 20, or as high as ~200.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum