McCree: Dev Negligence, Misconceptions & His Present State

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03/08/2017 11:23 AMPosted by MortystMorty
Man this thread is toxic. Please Mccree mains, don't be like DVA mains.

I'm a mccree main. I don't think he's horrible. Please don't insult the dev team though. They will address him in due time.

And please stop suggesting reworks. Not all characters needs drastic reworks, and in fact I would rather them not unless absolutely neccesary.

Like I said earlier, make the slow cowboy 10% faster and do 5 more damage each fan the hammer shot and he'll actually be in a good spot. His ult isn't fantastic but it's not as horrible as everyone makes it out to be. His left click is balanced right now. Flashbang is fair and combat roll isn't a bad complement to his kit either. His weakest part of his kit is honestly his speed. And second is fan the hammer. I never use it to be honest as hitting heads isnt that hard and way more damage.

But please stay classy Mccree mains. No need to be toxic.


Even you can see they went full re tward.
03/08/2017 11:20 AMPosted by CBH
<span class="truncated">...</span>avoiding the question i see...


Better than avoiding employment and basic hygiene
i work two jobs, but alright, in all seriousness:

the visual dissonance and performance issues on mccree's flashbang is a fact.
the lack of mobility and susain necessary to perform mccree's "duelist" role is a fact.
the absurd cooldown on mccree's roll compared to more potent abilities is a fact.
mccree's complete lack of utility compared to soldier76 is a fact.
that mccree's pickrates have plummeted over the past months is a fact.
that pro mccree players have criticized mccree's kit or switched off to soldier entirely is a fact.
that mccree's ult is hugely underperforming is a fact.
the lack of damage and reliability and subsequent near-uselessness of fth is a fact.
the frustration of his players and fans is a fact.

and you're acting like "oooh op uses fth" negates all this.

so, apologies, you can read. you just have no idea how to think.
03/08/2017 11:16 AMPosted by CBH
...hey just a quick question: can you read


Shouldn't you be shoveling dog !@#$ right now or something?

...
I utilize Flashbang+FtH often, experimentally to assess it in various situations, I don't speak and pull things out of my !@# without actually experiencing them for myself since that is no way to argue the topic at hand. How can you understand something without first utilizing it? Ultimately it is so I can speak from a place of education and experience - unlike you. Hell no I'm not a perfect McCree, but at least I read.


You have 50 hours on Mcree.
Also why are you attacking me?

03/08/2017 11:16 AMPosted by mamasugaa
...

Fixing his kit that never was adjusted to all the heavy nerfs he received isn't really a buff though, it's just that.... a fix. It's what most people are actually asking for, aside from maybe a rework to his ult.


The "fix" to his flashbang is just a buff in disguse. You're asking to make his instakill combo more reliable. People would have issues if I were to ask for more reliability on Scatter Arrow and you see what's going on with Roadhog now.

I have no issues with his ult being looked at though.


Having bug fixes to his flash bang of it randomly not stunning people or completely passing through them when you throw it right at them and exploding behind them is not what I would classify as a buff. Yes you could slightly argue that removing people's momentum would be a small buff, but then again you can't exactly defeat the Roadhog hook by jumping now can you? Keep in mind that the hook is nearly always a guaranteed instant kill without enemy teammate cooperation like a Zarya barrier and at a significant range too.
03/08/2017 11:26 AMPosted by Euan
03/08/2017 11:23 AMPosted by MortystMorty
Man this thread is toxic. Please Mccree mains, don't be like DVA mains.


Even you can see they went full re tward.

I agree with the post about not being toxic, certainly don't want that; but if we read back - only people disagreeing are tossing around insults, ad hominem, and things like re tward. I don't think I've seen it yet, otherwise. Not a single piece of evidence has been provided to refute my argument, only insults.
The "fix" to his flashbang is just a buff in disguse. You're asking to make his instakill combo more reliable. People would have issues if I were to ask for more reliability on Scatter Arrow and you see what's going on with Roadhog now.


I love how you say "more reliable" as if it was reliable at all as it is. Besides, of course we want it to be reliable? It's the only ability he has that might give him an edge over his opponent, saying that we don't deserve it to be something we can actually expect to work is like saying Genji doesn't deserve to have a reliable deflect or Soldier isn't allowed to have a reliable Biotic Field.
03/08/2017 11:23 AMPosted by MortystMorty
His ult isn't fantastic but it's not as horrible as everyone makes it out to be.
Just for info, ult kills/min taken from masteroverwatch competitive section:
  • Genji 0.52
  • Soldier 76 0.5
  • Reaper 0.48
  • Pharah 0.47
  • Mei 0.45
  • Torbjorn 0.41
  • Junkrat 0.37
  • Reinhardt 0.35
  • Hanzo 0.34
  • Tracer 0.33
  • Roadhog 0.31
  • Bastion 0.29
  • McCree 0.27
  • Dva 0.25
  • Winston 0.23
  • They probably still think what other buff to add to roadhog and 76..
    03/08/2017 11:23 AMPosted by MortystMorty
    Flashbang is fair
    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20747796269


    • https://gfycat.com/UnripeSickAngora - Sombra is carried by the momentum behind cover, the flashbang is wasted just like hook was by jumping into cover, except the CD is 10s, not 6s
    • https://gfycat.com/HonestConcreteAuklet - i doubt a ROG eSports player will be able to land a shot on this one
    • https://gfycat.com/ScratchyGeneralBluet - Ana literally ended up on McCree's head after being flashbanged. I guess this is the closest we have to HATs yet.
    • [[[[[NEW]]]]] https://gfycat.com/PracticalTornCow - again, Dva landed on my head, are you trolling me at this point?
    • [[[[[NEW]]]]] https://gfycat.com/ShadyInfiniteGelding - Symmetra on my head, SERIOUSLY? how many times will this happen? stop trolling me blizzard
    • https://gfycat.com/DimDescriptiveEskimodog - carried by momentum outside of FOV, really?
    • https://gfycat.com/TiredNeedyArcticduck - doesn't stop swift strike(dash) either, but stops rein charge? 'fair'
    • https://gfycat.com/FirmObviousFrillneckedlizard

    • https://streamable.com/w5sk - if it stopped momentum, the whole thing would have played differently. I would have killed him, and i would saw the rein coming etc. This is just infuriating.
    • https://gfycat.com/AnxiousDelectableAlbacoretuna
    • https://gfycat.com/HappygoluckyAcrobaticArawana - why even use the flashbang if it doesn't stop the target? tracer just got a free escape card granted to her by the momentum
    • https://gfycat.com/WellmadeGrippingBangeltiger - same thing, perfectly executed flashbang escaped for free by momentum
    • https://gfycat.com/AjarWarpedCobra
    • https://gfycat.com/LikableEuphoricGalah - if she didn't get flashbanged, nothing would have changed. The skill literally had 0 effect on the situation, and again, free escape granted by momentum.
    • https://gfycat.com/LoneSilverBedbug - this is ridiculous, i stunned him and i still die, while he is being stunned? what?
    • https://gfycat.com/OpulentIllegalIggypops - who needs a skill to work in a critical situation, right? let's just appreciate how flashbang did jack all here to stop genji. Again, free escape granted by momentum
    • https://gfycat.com/UnfitSerpentineBandicoot
    • https://gfycat.com/HighlevelWeeklyAmericanavocet - this one looks more like the flashbang helped sombra to escape by bouncing her close to cover. This is just silly.
    • [[[[[NEW]]]]] https://gfycat.com/FlawlessAdorableAmphibian - "Ok, low health, ridiculously tiny target to hit... i have a plan, i need to flashbang her to secure a kill... F*CK" Who needs a skill to work, right?
    • [[[[[NEW]]]]] https://gfycat.com/PeacefulUntriedAlaskanmalamute - do i need piercing bullets to land this shot? how do i get access to them?
    • [[[[[NEW]]]]] https://gfycat.com/JubilantTerribleIlsamochadegu - "I will strategically bounce so that you can't see my head, i hope you like foot fetish"
    • https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1YVrxFmheSc
    03/08/2017 11:28 AMPosted by NotMcCree
    03/08/2017 11:26 AMPosted by Euan
    ...

    Even you can see they went full re tward.

    I agree with the post about not being toxic, certainly don't want that; but if we read back - only people disagreeing are tossing around insults, ad hominem, and things like re tward. I don't think I've seen it yet, otherwise.


    Keep thumbing down anything that doesn't fit your agenda. It worked sowell for Dva mains, lol.
    03/08/2017 11:35 AMPosted by Euan
    Keep thumbing down

    Ok
    03/08/2017 11:35 AMPosted by Euan
    03/08/2017 11:28 AMPosted by NotMcCree
    ...
    I agree with the post about not being toxic, certainly don't want that; but if we read back - only people disagreeing are tossing around insults, ad hominem, and things like re tward. I don't think I've seen it yet, otherwise.


    Keep thumbing down anything that doesn't fit your agenda. It worked sowell for Dva mains, lol.
    we thumbing them down because we're right. are you going to offer anything of substance?
    Oh boy another McCree thread blizzard will ignore. I want to be proven wrong
    #fixhercowboy
    03/08/2017 11:38 AMPosted by acuite
    <span class="truncated">...</span>

    Keep thumbing down anything that doesn't fit your agenda. It worked sowell for Dva mains, lol.
    we thumbing them down because we're right. are you going to offer anything of substance?


    Of course you're right. No need to argue. Keep thumbing down. Again, worked so well for Dva.
    I agree with most things you say and I'd like to add that a McCree buff is especially needed now that Ana won't be as effective against Pharah. Pharah is already very strong right now and nerfing Ana's damage may just push her over the edge. A slight decrease in maximum damage dropoff, to say 35/70 could do wonders here.
    ...we thumbing them down because we're right. are you going to offer anything of substance?


    Of course you're right. No need to argue. Keep thumbing down. Again, worked so well for Dva.


    umm...she got a buff...so yes, it did work. Thanks for being so smart. Its not like your arguing just to argue.... *rolls eyes*
    I just want to be able to Flashbang the floor in front of Genji without it Deflecting back into me after it already exploded, and when I do, I want to be able to kill him before he can react.

    If Roadhog can instantkill 76% of the cast with triple the range of Flashbang, larger area of effect (cmon, Flash is 2m, Hook's hitbox is larger than that), and the same CD, then why can McCree only punish 48% of the cast, only 1 of those heroes he was intended to counter (Sombra).

    If a squishy hero plays so poorly to enter 7m of McCree's range, THEY SHOULD DIE.
    It's so simple.
    He has extremely loud footsteps, this is how it should work.

    I'm not asking for a momentum stop. That's a counterplay, it's fine.

    I'm just asking for McCree, who was designed from the very beginning to counter Genji
    To actually counter Genji

    If McCree is the close-ranged duelist and anti-flanker
    THEN WHY IS A CLOSE RANGED FLANKER THE BEST COUNTER TO MCCREE
    03/08/2017 11:42 AMPosted by ZenoX
    A slight decrease in maximum damage dropoff, to say 35/70 could do wonders here.

    No, play Widowmaker.

    McCree doesnt need more damage, he needs to be antiflanker, as he was supposed to be.

    S76 is midranged damage.
    Widowmaker is longranged damage.
    McCree is closeranged damage. This is why his kit encourages close range play.
    i think the absolutely mandatory changes right now are to fix the visual dissonance and general performance issues of flashbang and to remove the delay after mccree confirms his deadeye (he's already been standing there for a good few seconds, why give his enemies even more opportunities to take him out or hide?)

    if blizzard wants to maintain his intended 'duelist' role, they should probably consider kicking his mobility and survivability up a notch. even just a bit of increased speed and health could make a lot of difference in a 1v1 without your team, and any form of mobility or self-defense could make deadeye less of a suicide button.
    <span class="truncated">...</span>we thumbing them down because we're right. are you going to offer anything of substance?


    Of course you're right. No need to argue. Keep thumbing down. Again, worked so well for Dva.


    All I am going to say is "Thank you" for helping out this topic to be on top, it deserves it.
    Once again #NotMcCree creating a fantastic summary of all the things that need to be looked at by the development team.
    I do feel, after going over these 6 pages, that most "nay sayers" are either not reading the OP's original post and just posting out of a knee jerk reaction or they are very interested in never, ever, fighting a decent kit McCree hero because they are already assuming MC would be the next RoadHog and that deserves them to be already sh!tting their pants in fear.
    I do not want McCree to be the new RoadHog, I just want him to have access to an updated kit that makes him more self-reliant and an integral part of the team in battle. Same as many other heroes have evolved, the Justice man needs to evolve as well.
    Is Winston the best tank?
    03/08/2017 11:55 AMPosted by Pendant
    Is Winston the best tank?


    I think you might have responded to the wrong thread, friend.

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