D.Va's Current State: Discussion Megathread Part 12

General Discussion
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Highly Rated
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I wanted to list the most frequently suggested and seemingly most popular, agreed on, and reasonable fixes that I have seen from every post about D.Va. The current problems with her are her survivability and damage dealing capabilities. These suggestions are listed in no particular order.

Option 1:
Full revert to S2 state, then add movement speed buff and (obviously) keep DM fix. This means her stat values would be:
  • 400 Armor / 100 normal HP

  • Fusion Cannons:
    • 8 pellets per shot. Each pellet does 3 damage.

    Note: These are the same values she has had her entire existence in the game, and they were never considered too strong and were in fact considered weak. This is why they were buffed back in November. Many players complaints about D.Va was that she was too hard to kill and many D.Va players even said she did not need the original HP buff. So, the solution is to just never give her the HP buff and see where she stands, since the speed buff was seen by just about everyone as the real buff she received and was something that players had long asked for. If, for whatever reason, she is too weak, then you can give her 50 normal HP or shrink her critbox. Just something extremely small.

    Personal comment: This are the changes that, I personally, agree with the most. These would literally be my dream patch notes. I also believe they would be best because they allow her to be weaker versus high damage per shot characters, but not so weak that she is "bad" like she was before because she will have the speed buff. It should also help to avoid the "She has no weaknesses" argument that some people have said while also allowing her to do her job properly, while also making her less of a chore on healers. There are more reasons I could list, but to try and keep this somewhat short, this seems like the most "win/win situation" for everyone to me.


Option 2:
This change simply improves off of her current values assuming the devs absolutely refuse to do no reverts to anything ever. The stats are:
  • 300 Armor / 300 normal HP

  • Fusion Cannons:
    • Tighten spread
    • Decrease falloff distance


    Note: These changes have been highly suggested by many because it avoids reverts and helps alleviate her issues without actually increasing D.Va's DPS. Geoff did state that he did want her DPS to be slightly lower with her nerfs, but just about everyone seems to be in the boat of "The change brought a lot more problems that paper did not show." These problems spawn from the fact that most pellets end up missing smaller targets due to her spread, and because of the lessened damage, she does a lot less overall damage to anything that isn't a huge tank. Pair this with D.Va's harsh falloff, and you end up barely damaging any normally sized characters that are well within D.Va's effective range. This only worsens as the character shrink in size. This has basically introduced D.Va's past problem that the speed buff was supposed to fix, and that is that enemies could simply walk away from D.Va to avoid death, while also killing her in the process.

    Pair this with her new HP values, and just about no one has to fear D.Va anymore when she approaches them because they simply have to just back up a little bit and will easily kill her before she even places them near critical HP. There are plenty of stories and even video's and streams of Master and GM D.Va users being severely harmed and even losing their MEKA to characters like Lucio and Mercy from full HP. I have personally seen and experienced this myself as well. A lot of characters don't even need to walk away because they can strafe and dodge the D.Va's attacks and simply kill her quickly because of her unmissable critbox that is right in their face. A D.Va with extremely good tracking can alliterative this issue a little, but even pro's struggle to keep up this type of performance with D.Va's damage intake.

    A lot of this here was more of a tangent on general problems, but both changes aim to fix these problems. So I felt the need to go a little bit more in-depth here with this one because it is "new" to D.Va, as in it has never been used before.


Option 3:
This is not more of a change on it's own, as it is more of a suggestion by many that you(the devs) could mix and match these changes. Stuff like 300AR/300HP and cannon revert or 400AR/100HP and option 2 cannon changes. Or you could just test some of these individual changes, like just a gun or an HP change one at a time for the sake of making very small changes. Many, including myself, personally believe that she would need the combo changes to be really effective and actually restore D.Va to actually be the D.Va we all know and have used since launch again.

Another thing that I know the large majority of players do not want are any reworks to her. The majority seems to strongly agree that her abilities and passives are fine where they currently are and really the only things needed to make D.Va not weak again are simple number changes to her HP and weapons. Those are what made her strong before, they are what made her weak now, so now they are what can make her strong again. We really just want a middle ground to be reached between her November pre-buff and post-buff versions. What we currently have is overall weaker than her pre-buff self, which is why most players are still going on about her and why people are getting increasingly concerned for her character.

I personally strongly agree with this as well, and if I am honest, I would be pretty upset and saddened by any reworks to her. To me, it feels like changing things that aren't broken is just trying to do more work than necessary that has a high chance of introducing more balance problems for D.Va without much fixing her original problems and it risks straying her further from the D.Va us players know and enjoy, which is something she really does not need to risk at this point and time, because that is the main reason players are currently upset.

Anyways, these suggestions of course do not speak for everyone, these are just the changes that I personally have seen suggested way more and are agreed on the most out of everything I have read. I have read every single comment in these megathreads alone and have fully read many many more posts in full about her as well as just discussing her from people in game and on other sites and services like Reddit and Discord, and this is what I have seen the most. Obviously I would except you to read some of these comments yourself and see for yourself instead of just taking my word for it, but the purpose of this edit is to just summarize and shrink things down so if you don't want to read hundred and hundreds of comments, you can just look here.

I hope you really understand what players want, and I thank you for the read.

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Just a quick bit for those of you calling these threads spam. Realize that these threads only exist 1 at a time and have served to condense much feedback into one spot which has reduced spam by quite a bit. This is basically one never-ending thread and seemingly why the mods lets it exist. If it were spam the mods would have removed it by now instead of removing all of the comments from the last thread's first few pages of people saying to "stop because this is spam." If you hate seeing the thread so much, then don't comment. This thread chain has actually gained more likes in the past few threads and many new people have left comments because I read every single comment that is made in these. The last thread was also one of the quickest capping threads yet. It's not some "echo chamber of the same people commenting" as many would like to believe.

Also, here is a message from the community manager, Tom Powers:


Hi guys,

All discussion regarding the balance of D.Va and her current state should be allocated here. This will help us garner and consolidate your feedback and opinions.

Thank you.


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NEWEST COMMENTS BY GEOFF ABOUT ANA REVERTS.

03/08/2017 06:22 PMPosted by Geoff Goodman
Ana had the biggest changes in this patch, and upon testing, feedback, and talking about it a ton internally, we decided to pull back on the nerfs a bit for this patch. The damage reduction on her weapon is significant, but if this ends up not being enough we can re-visit some further tuning. We don't want to swing her balance too wildly within a single patch.


We don't want to swing her balance too wildly within a single patch.


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LATEST COMMENTS BY GEOFF ABOUT D.VA:

03/03/2017 11:49 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
I have talked about D.Va changes in the past, but unfortunately it just isn't what people want to hear. I understand people are frustrated that she lost a bit of her 'bully' nature before, and really want to play her that way again. The reality is she was too good at too many things and something had to give.

I know that, given the choice, many people would sacrifice power from her tools like Defense Matrix if it allowed her to be played in a more super aggressive role like she did for a time. Overall the concept of a giant mech wreaking havok and dealing a ton of damage as an offense or defense hero is a cool one, but D.Va just isn't built for that. That said, clearly there is a strong desire for that kind of hero and it certainly would be sweet to make another mech-type hero in that space, so that's something for us to consider looking forward.


03/03/2017 02:32 PMPosted by Geoff Goodman
03/03/2017 12:18 PMPosted by Pickles

So, Geoff. Can you actually clarify what D.Va's purpose is?

Shes designed as a dive tank. But she cant actually dive anymore.

Unless shes actually supposed to stand behind reins shield and take pressure off?
In that case, why would you pick D.Va over say, Orisa? Or Zarya?

Its certainly not for damage, both outclass her. Shes not even going to be the best at taking down shields, unlimited ammo or not, Orisa is much better at doing that too.

Whats her purpose? I think if you were to actually clarify it would help a lot.

From a design point of view, what do you see her job as?


She can still dive and harass, especially if she jumps in with allies and helps protect them. Before the latest changes she could fly into almost any situation, regardless of which heroes she faced, deal a bunch of damage and fly out. Fighting against her felt terrible as it often felt like you had no options to beat her. We considered raising the cooldown on her Flight instead, but made her a lot less interesting to play, especially considering firing her weapon slows her down.

You can still do that, but now you have to be more careful about when you go in and who you are facing.


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This thread is just an extension from the other threads since they hit their cap and discussion has not stopped. This is used to keep the CONSTRUCTIVE discussion going so the current 5.5k comments in this thread alone won't be lost to the void. Even though some of them deserve it.

Another title change has been made because D.Va's nerfs have been in place for a while now, so the discussion has more or less migrated from being about her current state instead if talking strictly about her nerfs.

I'm not going to quote all of the text from the previous threads' OP's this time, so if you are interested in reading what they have to provide, as well as all of the previous discussion held in them, then the links are below.



Again, the previous threads have good info and discussion in them, both in the parent and comments, but I don't want to go on a huge quote fest again, so if you care, then I highly recommend you check them out.

Also, i'm going to use the parent post here to link to really good threads about D.Va that others have created and have sank to the bottom, so if you know any very high quality threads about D.Va, link them in the comments and i'll add them to the list!

THE LIST:



I wanted to quote this beautiful comment by Borshevar.

02/23/2017 10:49 PMPosted by Borshevar
I'm not D.va main, I'm not something else main, I'm a tank main. I was a tank main since the start of the game. I'm not saying tank meta is something good, but currently we have it.

Look at this:
02/23/2017 12:01 PMPosted by Velator
https://public.tableau.com/profile/benjamin.trautman#!/vizhome/OverwatchHeroMetaReport-Season3Review/HeroUsageSeason3

Feel free to check all the reports, not just those starting from 28.11.16.

D.va had ~79% pickrate at her peak. Wow, that's impressive. Overall. But is that impressive during tank meta? Nope. Zarya had ~80% at the same time. Rein had 97%. Those two were always viable. Hog had 52% that time.

Rein didn't drop below 40% pickrate EVER. Zarya didn't drop below 30% EVER.

Now understand what I'm trying to say. I'm a tank player. It's clear that D.va and Winston are very, very situational. Since they're situational, my hero pool is limited to... 3 heroes. I got bored of Rein very quickly just like any sane person. So, I guess, I have 2. I will sometimes play Rein when I think it's necessary, but it's not what I want and I consider that "filling", just like when I pick support when we need a support.

Now... What about hero pool of dps mains? Soldier, pharah, widowmaker, mei, symmetra, tracer, genji - aren't they viable? Isn't this hero pool like 2-3 times bigger than the one of tanks and supports?

Even if we will get a perfect 2-2-2 meta, all tanks will have 200%/5= 40% pickrate, while all dps characters will have 200%/14 = 14,28% pickrate.

Reaper at recent tournaments had 7,64% pickrate, almost 2 times lesser than supposedly perfect pickrate (14,28%), and he is considered to be garbage.

Look at D.va from the same perspective. She had 16,54% pickrate which is 2,4 times lesser than supposedly perfect pickrate (40%).

That's why first of all we need ALL tanks and ALL supports to be viable, and only after that - all dps characters to be viable. I'm not asking to buff D.va because I am/was a D.va main, I ask to buff her and winston because I want diversity. If you will dig through my post history you will also find out that I also want mercy to be buffed. Mccree, too, just because it's obvious even for me that he is trash when compared to soldier. And Reaper, which was supposed to counter tanks but failed to deal with tank meta (you can also call it Ana meta).
Lucio is our new king.

We've also figured it all out:

Overbuff -> Overnerf -> Overwatch
-full-proof
Nice, keep the ideas and discussion going guys!

Also, a note to posters against this topic:

"I entice, by all means, to have a proper discussion on these threads. But that does not mean to bring straight, toxic insults because that is not "discussing on a topic." Even if you get downvoted, don't take that negatively, that's just people disagreeing with you. But make sure to write a CIVILIZED post and not complete slander so at least you'll seem like a more respectable person."

*Sigh* It doesn't hurt to try...
Lets keep going. They cant ignore us forever (i hope lol)
Sorry for the late post. Didn't expect Part 11 to cap so insanely quickly. That was record time and had the biggest number of new people i'v seen yet.

Really glad a lot of people agreed with option 1 as well. Dunno if Blizz will do it, but boy if they did, I think all might actually be forgiven from me. It would definitely be the dream.
A new megathread per day
03/23/2017 06:32 PMPosted by Slade
Sorry for the late post. Didn't expect Part 11 to cap so insanely quickly. That was record time and had the biggest number of new people i'v seen yet.

Really glad a lot of people agreed with option 1 as well. Dunno if Blizz will do it, but boy if they did, I think all might actually be forgiven from me. It would efinitely be the dream.
Yea it was capped under 24 hours lol.

But it's not the speed that matters... it's the quality. ^~^
When are they going to respond to this thread??
03/23/2017 06:35 PMPosted by GiantAxe
When are they going to respond to this thread??
realistically probably never
when they give i think its likely theyll just put something on ptr.
never seen blizz respond to a megathread.
That's like the fastest this megathread has capped. Congrats!
Megathread but separate multiple D.Va threads are still made regardless
I want to marry D.va!
03/23/2017 06:35 PMPosted by GiantAxe
When are they going to respond to this thread??


Looks into the distance.
Wait, did the other megathread already cap? Damn
option 1 seems like a good idea not so sure about the other 2 though
03/23/2017 06:35 PMPosted by GiantAxe
When are they going to respond to this thread??

Never because y'all are super annoying and it would set a bad precedent for their PR.

BTW, I don't think D.Va is in a great state rn so it's not like I disagree with you guys. But validating these threads with a response would just encourage other mains to spam the forums with threads until their mains get buffed.

*preparing for incoming D.Va downvote brigade*
If this was Ana megathread part 12 blizzard would've already buffed her to 300 hp and 150dps per shot, sadly this is D.Va so they're gonna give her 15 more armour after 20 more threads and call it a day.
D.va Megathread Part Whatever.
Part 12 now? Is 11 already full?

I just want D.Va with 100/400 or 200/400 back. We really don't need a damage buff, it would be nice, but really not necessary. She is a tank and no DPS. And with more armour, we would make more damage over time.
I beg everyone who comes here to complain to ACTUALLY READ the first post by slade.

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