Mercy/Ana/Healer SR gains too low in Competitive since patch

Bug Report
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03/30/2017 03:35 PMPosted by Alisaris
03/30/2017 03:08 PMPosted by ReplacedFlea
Guys! I submitted a ticket with the information in this thread earlier today, and this is their response.

"Hi Ryan,

Tech Game Master Dantilin at your service!

Thanks for reaching out to us here in Customer Support about your concerns about the changes in the 1.9 patch for Overwatch, and how Skill Rating gains in competitive matches are a lot less for support players than non-support players.

That's very definitely a valid concern, and you'll want to continue this discussion in the forum thread that you linked. I would bring this up in the General Discussion forum as well:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/22813879/

Our developers look to the forums for their primary source of feedback, so even if you don't see a response from a developer, know that they've read a highly rated thread like the one you've linked, and are discussing it among themselves, and taking it into consideration.

Thanks again for getting in touch, and bringing this up. Have a great week!"

I haven't replied back as I wanted to pass this info on ASAP.


So essentially they aren't going to even pass it on and its up to us to HOPE we can get the attention of a Blue. That is fantastic service.


Also known as a "get out of jail free card". Fantastic (sarcasm) customer service.
I think Tech Master Dantilin did all he could to share this issue with developers, but the customer service has probably little to none communications with the higher ups at Blizzard.

*sigh*
I'm afraid there's only 2 things I can do at the moment.
1. Stop playing healer in Competitive. (Sorry team, but I too want to rank up)
2. Stop believing Blizzard want a fair game for everyone.
03/30/2017 02:16 PMPosted by Prieston
03/30/2017 01:53 PMPosted by GlitterFart
Hilarious how all the people on Reddit say that this is all lies and we are making stuff up and our "written down numbers" are no proof that anything is wrong.


As I see ~ half of the posts are not counting loose/win streaks and almost non information about SR difference within teams.


2812 // Victory // 2832 // +20
2832 // Victory // 2857 // +25
2857 // Defeat // 2829 // -30
2829 // Defeat // 2809 // -20
2809 // Defeat // 2785 // -24
2785 // Defeat // 2748 // -37
2748 // Victory // 2772 // +24
2772 // Defeat // 2744 // -28
2744 // Victory // 2765 // +21
2765 // Defeat // 2737 // -28
2737 // Defeat // 2713 // -24
2713 // Victory // 2735 // +22
2735 // Defeat // 2705 // -30
2705 // Victory // 2725 // +20
2725 // Victory // 2749 // +24
2749 // Defeat // 2728 // -21
2728 // Defeat // 2702 // -26
2702 // Victory // 2719 // +17 THIS WAS A FULL DIAMOND GAME [3200 enemy average] ARE YOU KIDDING ME? QUEUED WITH A FRIEND TO SEE IF MORE SR AGAINST HARDER ENEMIES

Average SR gain per win: +21,6
Average SR loss per defeat: -27,63

I posted this on page 18 but not in order of win/loss streaks.
Just because you don't want to see it, doesn't mean it's not happening

The last game was when I started playing with a friend. I gained a whooping 17 ... SEVENTEEN.
I was ranked 2702 playing against full diamond team 3200 average SR.

Played some more matches with him and stopped writing them down other than:

Just played with a friend.
Match 1
Mercy : +21
Widow : +32

Match 2
Mercy : +25
Mcree : 40

Match 3
Mercy : +25
Bastion : +50


Which OBVIOUSLY shows that the dps player is getting way more SR than the support player. Please stop being ignorant.

I gain 30+ SR in my DVA games and lose 11-17 SR in my DVA games.

https://youtu.be/Tz1ngyQOazA

Edit: Oh and by the way, this issue happened in season 1. Blizzard ACKNOWLEDGED this in season 2. The issue then happened again some time later and was fixed again. It has happened before yet here come the DPS players saying :

"I want to say this is more support main victim complex bull!@#$ but that's just because I'm a jerk."
"It's just a rumor started by a streamer. There's no real evidence that supports are getting skewed SR gains."
"This was a rumor started by a streamer and supported by a %^-*!@#$%^ of useless anecdotes. There is no support SR gain issue."
I was watching the playback from my gameplay with Zen. Most of the time I am not seeing onfire points for healing players. Assists give me about 6 - 9 on fire points. In some rare cases I would get 15 fire points for assists. Most of the time the assists was less than 10 fire points. Healing was 5 fire points when it gave it to me but most of the time I got no fire points for healing.

Is that by design or a bug?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuHFc4ET1ZpAQKxETupx7MQ
The healing is way underrated, god damn it. You earn so little fire for healing that it might look like sustaining your allies to let them kill somebody and not being busy running from the spawn is not that important.

Assists was a main source of fire for supports and healing fire was always someithing background. Leave assist fire be, all right, but raise the healing fire gains, maybe even double it, because its sick to heal 15k, save your teammates numerous of times and then get 20 sr to the face from game that thinks you did almost nothing.

EDIT: The point is to make a burst of effectiveness in the game, even when you overally do bad, you will still get on fire. And if you will continiously help with heals, you will not. That is why healing is so underrated, you can deal damage, but you get fire only if you kill or assist, but in case of heals, you simply gain scraps of fire all the time, not being able to get on fire by simply healing itself
I played 3 games today, and my SR win/loss was fairly even. 1 win and 2 losses looked like this. +24 SR, -25 SR, -24 SR.

My last game I just played was a little over 20k healing and 35% healing (card). I remember when I broke Diamond though, I was gaining more SR than I lost on a consistent basis. At best now I'm breaking even. Perhaps this is what they intended, but won't know for sure without a Blue response.

EDIT:
Just played a 4th game, and it was 13k healing at 29% healing card (shorter game). +20 SR. Still seems unfavorable compared to what it used to be. Other roles tend to get more SR than you lose, but now it appears you'll at best break even, and at worse typically lose SR in a 50/50 win-rate.

EDIT (again): 5th game. +19 SR. It does appear "better" now than last Tuesday, but maybe I'm just overthinking it... but still not even or what it was pre-patch which that I am positive. Last Tuesday, I was seeing losses get -30 SR or more, and wins get +15 SR. It has started to get better, but I'm almost NEVER on fire now. I don't wait for 3-4 man rez's, but I also don't rez just for the sake of rez'ing either (or just for the sake of gaining fire). If on-fire has something to do with SR points, well, that would definitely explain the SR difference.
Played 2 more games - the first one I accidentally clicked on it while trying to get into the arcade, (Figures that I typically have to wait 2-4mins, but the one time I make a mistake, it puts me in a match before my mouse could reach the cancel button), second time, I was hoping to win some point back.

One defeat -25 SR
One win = +21 SR

I will note that the point lost due to the defeat seems fairly normal, since it was a very one sided match. All of us were getting slaughtered left and right, and there was very little I could do. But I have no idea how much others lost, so...

The win, however, made it pretty obvious to me that the problem still exists. No change as far as on fire is concerned. It is VERY difficult to get on fire, even though (or perhaps for healers - because of the fact that) we were dominating the other team. and at the end of the match, I still was short 4 points.

So... SR gain/loss seems to be normalizing slightly compared to what it was a week ago - but I only have this one sample, so it may as well have been a fluke.
Alright I thought I would post my games in the hopes it helps more with evidence. I have pretty much given up hope at this point but I'm practising DPS on my alt account now. DPS main season 5 here I come. I have about 20 games this week and they were all played with a dps duo. Two different players. Should be noted most of my games are played with a high master player (so his gains should be a bit higher). I reached mid masters last season but lost 350 rating after placements even though I played all my games with a tank player and he only lost 100 rating. So I am probably outperforming my current SR, so my gains aren't noticeably small but they are comparatively small.

Starts with no streaks for either player.

Match 1: Loss
Healer -26 DPS -11

Match 2: Loss
Healer -36 DPS -26

Match 3: Win
Healer +31 DPS +73

Match 4: Loss
Healer -21 DPS -15

Match 5: Loss
Healer -30 DPS -20

Match 6: Loss
Healer -24 DPS -11

Match 7: Win
Healer +26 DPS +54

Match 8: Win
Healer +25 DPS +52

Match 9: Win
Healer +28 DPS +40

Match 10: Loss
Healer -22 DPS -14

Match 11: Win
Healer +25 DPS +43

Match 12: Win
Healer +27 DPS +46

Match 13: Win
Healer +25 DPS +50

Match 14: Win
Healer +22 DPS +40

Match 15: Draw

*at this point I start keeping track of rating differences and heroes

Match 16: Win
Healer (3316-DVa/Zen/Ana) +28 DPS (3162-Genji/Zarya/Soldier) +30

Match 17: Win
Healer (3344-Zen) +30 DPS (3192-Genji) +28

Match 18: Win
Healer (3374 - Zen) +31 DPS (3220-Torb/Zarya) +38

Match 19: Loss
Healer (3405 - Zen/Lucio/Mercy) -25 2nd HEALER (3489 - Ana) -18

Match 20: Loss
Healer (3380 - Zen/Lucio/Ana) -23 2nd HEALER (3471 - Ana/McCree) -22

Match 21: Loss
Healer (3357 - Zen) -28 TANK (3449 - Rein/Zarya) -49 <--------mega tilt

HEALER NET: +145 DPS NET: +307

Should note I went on a 7 game winstreak, as long as draws don't break it. Not sure but since I gained more seems to be true. Only +31 game on my last game in the streak and still 8 less than my DPS counterpart. He was on a 3 game winstreak as this was the second DPS I played with.

Also during the time I was rated 3405 I was top 800 Zenyatta. So no... I'm not bad.
Posting in a gigantic thread: 1 loss renders a 25SR loss, 1 win gave me 12SR gain.

Similarly, Mercy healing does NOT produce any on-fire points. This is analogous to 76 not gaining fire points for shooting the enemies.
03/30/2017 03:39 PMPosted by Phex
Dudes, i really adore your efforts, but it is over ;)


Welp, I'm afraid that it will just fix itself for players who just continue on playing and losing alot of points. So, the rest of us who haven't played a real number of games yet since the issue would have to swallow the extrem sr lose pill and just accept to suffer from playing as a supporter.

Maybe it will be really over then. But its anything but a solution.
03/30/2017 10:55 PMPosted by Zirkusaffe
03/30/2017 03:39 PMPosted by Phex
Dudes, i really adore your efforts, but it is over ;)


Welp, I'm afraid that it will just fix itself for players who just continue on playing and losing alot of points. So, the rest of us who haven't played a real number of games yet since the issue would have to swallow the extrem sr lose pill and just accept to suffer from playing as a supporter.

Maybe it will be really over then. But its anything but a solution.


I'm not saying it is okay. But if Blizzard did nothing at the time, we were getting 15 SR ans loosing 30, they will not doing anything now it has almost even out, either.

They won through silence...

With making new reddit Threads, threatening with strikes ect. we just bring up the rest of the community against us. Most replys alreads shifted towars "Supports always complaining about nothing", so all we do is just hurting us.

Blizzard will never say they did something wrong. Somebody there has real issues to stand up for his mistakes. All we can do is vote with our wallet. Don't buy Lootboxes and think twice about the next Blizzard Game coming out.
03/30/2017 10:04 PMPosted by Poli
Alright I thought I would post my games in the hopes it helps more with evidence. I have pretty much given up hope at this point but I'm practising DPS on my alt account now. DPS main season 5 here I come. I have about 20 games this week and they were all played with a dps duo. Two different players. Should be noted most of my games are played with a high master player (so his gains should be a bit higher). I reached mid masters last season but lost 350 rating after placements even though I played all my games with a tank player and he only lost 100 rating. So I am probably outperforming my current SR, so my gains aren't noticeably small but they are comparatively small.

Starts with no streaks for either player.

Match 1: Loss
Healer -26 DPS -11

Match 2: Loss
Healer -36 DPS -26

Match 3: Win
Healer +31 DPS +73

Match 4: Loss
Healer -21 DPS -15

Match 5: Loss
Healer -30 DPS -20

Match 6: Loss
Healer -24 DPS -11

Match 7: Win
Healer +26 DPS +54

Match 8: Win
Healer +25 DPS +52

Match 9: Win
Healer +28 DPS +40

Match 10: Loss
Healer -22 DPS -14

Match 11: Win
Healer +25 DPS +43

Match 12: Win
Healer +27 DPS +46

Match 13: Win
Healer +25 DPS +50

Match 14: Win
Healer +22 DPS +40

Match 15: Draw

*at this point I start keeping track of rating differences and heroes

Match 16: Win
Healer (3316-DVa/Zen/Ana) +28 DPS (3162-Genji/Zarya/Soldier) +30

Match 17: Win
Healer (3344-Zen) +30 DPS (3192-Genji) +28

Match 18: Win
Healer (3374 - Zen) +31 DPS (3220-Torb/Zarya) +38

Match 19: Loss
Healer (3405 - Zen/Lucio/Mercy) -25 2nd HEALER (3489 - Ana) -18

Match 20: Loss
Healer (3380 - Zen/Lucio/Ana) -23 2nd HEALER (3471 - Ana/McCree) -22

Match 21: Loss
Healer (3357 - Zen) -28 TANK (3449 - Rein/Zarya) -49 <--------mega tilt

HEALER NET: +145 DPS NET: +307

Should note I went on a 7 game winstreak, as long as draws don't break it. Not sure but since I gained more seems to be true. Only +31 game on my last game in the streak and still 8 less than my DPS counterpart. He was on a 3 game winstreak as this was the second DPS I played with.

Also during the time I was rated 3405 I was top 800 Zenyatta. So no... I'm not bad.
Thank you for posting this. It can't be any clearer than this. I hope that many people finally realise that there is bug that cause an unfair system for support players.

How am I supposed to take competitive serious with this bug?
It won't take long and the top 500 is DPS only.
I have my last two game on video.
One is King's Row with Mercy, the other is Route 66 with D.Va and Junkrat.

Guess, I gotta sit down and do what I do best:
data crunching!
Let's see then how and when on fire is gained.

I mean, it's a logical system with logical rules and unless there is a bug, there shouldn't be accidents.
03/22/2017 01:43 PMPosted by xSnezzy
same here!

I'm 1700 SR (on PC), I used to gain around 32 SR for a win and now under 19 SR.


That SR is the bane of my existence right now. I got 16 SR switching from Dva to soldier on attack/def respectively for Hanamura. It feels like I'm being waterboarded by silver rank
Fire is one of those things which I've found some days I can get exceedingly easily and as such be 'on fire' most of the time, and other days I can barely get 'on fire' (usually this happens when the team is generally poor, such as a stomp match).
So im wondering when all the Support mains either leave comp or derank so much that high level games no longer have healers what will happen? Will it magically be fixed or will it still be ignored. I mean in what way can you have an esport if one of the most important roles can't even be filled if their rank drops no matter what they do.
03/31/2017 02:07 AMPosted by Alisaris
So im wondering when all the Support mains either leave comp or derank so much that high level games no longer have healers what will happen? Will it magically be fixed or will it still be ignored. I mean in what way can you have an esport if one of the most important roles can't even be filled if their rank drops no matter what they do.


I think this is the only way to handle this issue, since blizzard seems hell bent on not responding.

screw healers, team deathmatch it is
Thing is, they can't even expect us to rank up by just solely winning. A 50% win ratio is still seen as fairly impressive but at the rate this is going that's just landing everyone in support lower and lower.

I still don't see anything wrong with a flat 25 plus/minus for a win/loss. Or even a 25 for win and -24 for loss to keep people a little motivated. I can't see it doing much to mess up the rankings.
03/31/2017 03:22 AMPosted by Intamasica
Thing is, they can't even expect us to rank up by just solely winning. A 50% win ratio is still seen as fairly impressive but at the rate this is going that's just landing everyone in support lower and lower.

I still don't see anything wrong with a flat 25 plus/minus for a win/loss. Or even a 25 for win and -24 for loss to keep people a little motivated. I can't see it doing much to mess up the rankings.


the flat 25+/- system makes it too easy for people to be carried.

I mean, I completely understand why they need to take into acccount personal performance. I even understand why it is so difficult to gauge the performance of healers like Lucio and Mercy, since most of it is based on decision making and not simple kill stats as it is with Soldier, who is a very straight forward and rather easily quantified hero.

It's just this sudden switch to basing a character's performance off another character for whom the healer has no responsibility whatsoever and the absolute lack of communication about the whole thing that leaves and extremely sour taste in my mouth.
03/31/2017 06:12 AMPosted by Fussel2107
03/31/2017 03:22 AMPosted by Intamasica
Thing is, they can't even expect us to rank up by just solely winning. A 50% win ratio is still seen as fairly impressive but at the rate this is going that's just landing everyone in support lower and lower.

I still don't see anything wrong with a flat 25 plus/minus for a win/loss. Or even a 25 for win and -24 for loss to keep people a little motivated. I can't see it doing much to mess up the rankings.


the flat 25+/- system makes it too easy for people to be carried.

I mean, I completely understand why they need to take into acccount personal performance. I even understand why it is so difficult to gauge the performance of healers like Lucio and Mercy, since most of it is based on decision making and not simple kill stats as it is with Soldier, who is a very straight forward and rather easily quantified hero.

It's just this sudden switch to basing a character's performance off another character for whom the healer has no responsibility whatsoever and the absolute lack of communication about the whole thing that leaves and extremely sour taste in my mouth.


I get that some people would get carried, but it wouldn't cause too much of an issue. You still can't play with anyone with a huge skill difference, and if a team contains an underskilled player, it's basically a 5v6 anyway. And then if they're not always playing with the carriers they would drop out.

But I understand you point and I get that it's the reason they would never do it, it just seems better then what supports are having to deal with now.

I stopped playing Mercy at lower levels as it left the win/loss too reliant on the team, and I found I was a much more reliable damage dealer than my team at Platinum levels. But now that I'm high diamond (was almost Master before all this), I was much happier playing Mercy (who I proudly say I - at least used to - main) as I trusted the team to communicate and do well, which they did.

But even a 50% win rate now which is normal is dropping me down, at 3375 at this point.. about 70 below where I was after maybe 4 wins 4 losses (I haven't been keeping track).

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