State of McCree: Continually Abjured by Developers

General Discussion
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03/31/2017 05:21 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
Seagull has stated multiple times on his stream that learning hitboxes and animation is huge part of what separates a good player from a bad player. I may not be a "doctor" but I'm pretty sure Seagull is one.

03/31/2017 06:49 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
You should always take pro's opinion with a grain of salt. They have been wrong on numerous occasions.

Rip.
03/31/2017 06:53 AMPosted by NotMcCree
03/31/2017 05:21 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
Seagull has stated multiple times on his stream that learning hitboxes and animation is huge part of what separates a good player from a bad player. I may not be a "doctor" but I'm pretty sure Seagull is one.

03/31/2017 06:49 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
You should always take pro's opinion with a grain of salt. They have been wrong on numerous occasions.

Rip.


Should I make a list of the stuff you cherry picked? Is this all you've got to say to "sell" your argument to someone that's convinced that you are full of !@#$ and the lack of blue post confirms that?

Must be fun to take things out of context tho, but ultimately it adds no value to the conversation and makes you look even more full of !@#$.

The Seagull quote was an actual game tip, not a prediction or whatever people mean when they say McCree is not in a good spot.

How can you say McCree is not in a good spot when the top 100 players all main McCree? <o>
03/31/2017 06:55 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
Should I make a list of the stuff you cherry picked? Is this all you've got to say to "sell" your argument to someone that's convinced that you are full of !@#$ and the lack of blue post confirms that?

Why are you so upset?
03/31/2017 06:47 AMPosted by HailFall
McCree has never been bad. Reaper has never been bad. These threads always act like their limited viability is because of them being bad heroes, but realistically it's because soldier does the jobs of both these heroes better than they can do it themselves. Soldier just needs a massive nerf or even full revert to his pre buff State. Both McCree and reaper will come back then. This whole movement is just silly. McCree and reaper are some of the strongest heroes in the game, the problem is simply soldier and it has always been soldier.
I, too, enjoy downvoting without actually leaving a response
03/31/2017 06:57 AMPosted by Datboi2
03/31/2017 06:55 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
Should I make a list of the stuff you cherry picked? Is this all you've got to say to "sell" your argument to someone that's convinced that you are full of !@#$ and the lack of blue post confirms that?

Why are you so upset?


Upset? No. I'm actually enjoying this thread, seeing that most McCree fanbois got absolutely nothing on me, other than ad hominem and cheesy posts that add nothing to the discussion :)

Currently syncing 2TB RAID arrays, so I got time boys.
03/31/2017 06:58 AMPosted by HailFall
03/31/2017 06:47 AMPosted by HailFall
McCree has never been bad. Reaper has never been bad. These threads always act like their limited viability is because of them being bad heroes, but realistically it's because soldier does the jobs of both these heroes better than they can do it themselves. Soldier just needs a massive nerf or even full revert to his pre buff State. Both McCree and reaper will come back then. This whole movement is just silly. McCree and reaper are some of the strongest heroes in the game, the problem is simply soldier and it has always been soldier.
I, too, enjoy downvoting without actually leaving a response


This is the Blizzard forum, did you actually expect a discussion when you are disagreeing with the popular opinion? :D The pitchfork mob is mostly full of 12 year olds who can't see further than their nose anyway and think they know it all. And they want to be the cool kids and being the cowboy and have the game do everything for them.

I've shown vids of McCree doing tons of work. The way I see it they have two options. Either git gut and try to play like their better peers, or keep forum dwelling. Either way it's fun pissing those guys off.

PROTIP: Unless McCree becomes an F tier hero with absolutely awful stats, he won't be looked at. And I'm pretty sure mccree has suepr high pick rate, when we don't use Overbuff's skewed data. So instead of hashtags guys, you might wanna stop picking McCree :D

The OP really baffles me tho. He seems to be a good player, with Tracer, The most underlooked character in the game yet complains about McCree, with an argument that he's out of time and hasn't evolved with the game (wut?)

Yes I want to be a great Mei too, if the Right click could be a homing missile that'd be great

#fixhisicequeen

I also like Hanzo for his personality. Can we get the tree logs back so I can shoot people behind pillars again? Pleeeeeeeeeeeease, I need a blue post here!
03/31/2017 06:53 AMPosted by NotMcCree
03/31/2017 05:21 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
Seagull has stated multiple times on his stream that learning hitboxes and animation is huge part of what separates a good player from a bad player. I may not be a "doctor" but I'm pretty sure Seagull is one.

03/31/2017 06:49 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
You should always take pro's opinion with a grain of salt. They have been wrong on numerous occasions.

Rip.

Lmao! When you try to argue and end up invalidating your own argument.

03/31/2017 06:55 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
03/31/2017 06:53 AMPosted by NotMcCree
...
...
Rip.


Should I make a list of the stuff you cherry picked? Is this all you've got to say to "sell" your argument to someone that's convinced that you are full of !@#$ and the lack of blue post confirms that?

Must be fun to take things out of context tho, but ultimately it adds no value to the conversation and makes you look even more full of !@#$.

The Seagull quote was an actual game tip, not a prediction or whatever people mean when they say McCree is not in a good spot.

How can you say McCree is not in a good spot when the top 100 players all main McCree? <o>

When you try to save yourself and end up making baseless points with no supporting feedback to prove your statements.
03/31/2017 07:01 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
PROTIP: Unless McCree becomes an F tier hero with absolutely awful stats

03/31/2017 06:49 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
You should always take pro's opinion with a grain of salt. They have been wrong on numerous occasions.
03/31/2017 07:01 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
PROTIP: Unless McCree becomes an F tier hero with absolutely awful stats, he won't be looked at. And I'm pretty sure mccree has suepr high pick rate, when we don't use Overbuff's skewed data. So instead of hashtags guys, you might wanna stop picking McCree :D

He already is lmao
03/31/2017 07:00 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
03/31/2017 06:57 AMPosted by Datboi2
...
Why are you so upset?


Upset? No. I'm actually enjoying this thread, seeing that most McCree fanbois got absolutely nothing on me, other than ad hominem and cheesy posts that add nothing to the discussion :)

Currently syncing 2TB RAID arrays, so I got time boys.


So far you've been the only one to toss out ad hominem attacks and cheesy posts.
Learn to check yourself first before you check others, might save you some repeated embarrassement like you're making yourself out to be right now.

Most of the Cree players here posting on this board know what they're talking about. One just needs to look at the amount of hours they've played McCree.

"But it's really easy to say that!" you might say.

Yes, but then I'll say: "If they didn't play McCree or have run into these problems with the character on so many occasions, do you really think that they don't at least have a basic, if not solid understanding of the characters' shortcomings if they haven't put in the amount of hours or time like they have?"

It's easy to dismiss people who haven't played the character and are just in this thread to throw out attacks and cheesy posts.

...

Oh wait, that's you!
03/31/2017 07:08 AMPosted by NotMcCree
03/31/2017 07:01 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
PROTIP: Unless McCree becomes an F tier hero with absolutely awful stats, he won't be looked at. And I'm pretty sure mccree has suepr high pick rate, when we don't use Overbuff's skewed data. So instead of hashtags guys, you might wanna stop picking McCree :D

03/31/2017 06:49 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
You should always take pro's opinion with a grain of salt. They have been wrong on numerous occasions.

You know its bad when all that is needed to counter your arguments is your own quotes. Take the loss
I think you forgot the No 1 rule: don't feed the troll.

There are enough arguments about McCree being in a weird situation and a bit underpowered (youtubers,pro gamers).
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Upset? No. I'm actually enjoying this thread, seeing that most McCree fanbois got absolutely nothing on me, other than ad hominem and cheesy posts that add nothing to the discussion :)

Currently syncing 2TB RAID arrays, so I got time boys.


So far you've been the only one to toss out ad hominem attacks and cheesy posts.
Learn to check yourself first before you check others, might save you some repeated embarrassement like you're making yourself out to be right now.

Most of the Cree players here posting on this board know what they're talking about. One just needs to look at the amount of hours they've played McCree.

"But it's really easy to say that!" you might say.

Yes, but then I'll say: "If they didn't play McCree or have run into these problems with the character on so many occasions, do you really think that they don't at least have a basic, if not solid understanding of the characters' shortcomings if they haven't put in the amount of hours or time like they have?"

It's easy to dismiss people who haven't played the character and are just in this thread to throw out attacks and cheesy posts.

...

Oh wait, that's you!


Um what? I don't know what I'm talking about? Bruh I played McCree last night after not playing it for months and I won 2 games one of which was thanks to a penta kill Deadeye. I managed to flashbang/headshot the enemy tracer all the time.

Not only that, but I duoQ with a friend of mine that mains McCree and he's destroying people with it. I'm sorry but I'm more likely to take the opinion of a guy that makes "an obviously broken character" work rather than people that don't know that Hog's hook doesn't fully stop momentum. And in the next sentence he claims that you don't have enough stun time after flashbang to cast FotH ... are we playing the same !@#$ing game? Go to the practice range and educate yourself. Jesus... Are you guys playing with 200ms ping?

I'm spreading ad hominem, and I'm the one doing cheesy post. I'm sorry but all of my posts have brought something up and all I've got is "you a troll man, pliz guyz downvote and move on"

Might wanna checkout Google on definition.
03/31/2017 07:15 AMPosted by Lgtmr
I think you forgot the No 1 rule: don't feed the troll.

There are enough arguments about McCree being in a weird situation and a bit underpowered (youtubers,pro gamers).


And among all those players McCree is among the top played characters. Why is that? Wouldn't it be logical to *NOT* play a character that is broken? Why don't they just play Soldier all the time when he's this great?
Look at Mr. Bigboy bringing his balls on the table. You know, I can claim BS too and try to shove it down people's throats, doesn't mean we have to take it.

But please, do keep making yourself out to be a 'God McCree' player with your 'Godlike McCree playing friend' while we can't even check your profile to see your stats.

It's funny how you try to make yourself sound good just to fit in here and think that you can suddenly have a say in how McCree is a godly character just because YOU and YOUR friend know how to play him well.

I call BS, and everyone else calls BS too.
I don't even play McCree often, but I want to say that this post is really well done.

It's easy to see that a lot of effort and passion went into making it. I hope the situation gets some sort of acknowledgement soon.
I completely agree with this thread.

One thing, didn't the devs say they wanted short concise posts about stuff like this? I'm sure you've tried it but apparently, that is how you get an answer.

#fixhercowboy
#fixourcowboy
03/31/2017 01:17 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
McCree is fine. Pulled a penta kill with the ult last night through Rein shield.


Just because you pulled something off one time does not make it fine. If we look at the data that we have available to see that would be seen as an outlier. You have to base things off the most common/average because there will always be points significantly higher and lower than the average.

03/31/2017 01:17 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
Sites like overbuff/masteroverwatch have skewed data. Using them for anything is, kindly put, pointless. As stated by Blizzard even. Example - The actual average medium is 2300 SR and only about 10% of the playerbase reaches diamond.


This is the information we have which we can use. Blizzard haven't really supplied anything for us to work with so we are forced to use these sights to create and argument which has data to back it up. We know blizzard can see a lot more data but we cant access it so we used the best we can access.

03/31/2017 01:17 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
I like how you bring a random IDDQD statement but fail to realize that the dude plays it non-stop on his stream especially when his soldier doesn't work.


I dont watch the guys streams so i cant really comment on it, but surely he will play the hero he enjoys, and since he probably has a lot more time invested into McCree it would make sense that he feels more comfortable playing the hero? Even if thats not the case, people play what they enjoy. If he enjoys playing there hero, of course he will still play him.

03/31/2017 01:17 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
Fan the hammer is underused because of sheep mentality in this game. I use it all the time and it secures kills. You only need 4 shots to kill a 200 HP target. I know you think that the game should aim for you but come on now...


Im not initially sure how you can claim that, what are you basing it on? I personally don't use it since i feel i have a higher chance to get a kill with LMB. If you go back through this thread and the ones before it, this appears to be a commonly held feeling from us. So taking those in this thread, who yes is a small sample but we know most play a fair amount of McCree, who feel this due to them playing and feeling one is a more successful outcome kinda points to the opposite in what you are saying. Also so much for us attacking you first :-/

03/31/2017 01:17 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
IMO the only change McCree needs, after playing him for awhile last night is barrier damage with Deadeye, like at the moment I think it ramps 120 damage per second, maybe a multiplier could be added if a shot hits a barrier (x2/x3) so that there would be a moment where McCree can catch you off guard for good.


Small sample size. You're not going to find much. Its why games have beta testers and yet when they come out people will still find bugs. The larger your sample size the more useful and accurate data you get. Lets turn your example around. We take a bronze ranked mercy main and get them to play McCree for a couple hours then fix him based on their complaints. Would you agree to that? No of course not. Most people's first reaction would be to simple to tell them to 'get gud'. Why should we then just go off your one night playing McCree? You are arguing against people who combined have over 100's of hours in McCree. Are we bais? Of course we are, no one isnt. Have we had plenty of time to find the problems? Definitely.

Away to make him more effective against barriers would be nice, since that seems to be the way overwatch is currently moving. How to do it, i dont know. Is it necessary? I also dont know.

03/31/2017 01:17 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
But his overall damage is ... he hits like a truck and is way too easy to do damage if in proper range. I find it harder to DPS as soldier due to RNG recoil and sure 76's kit more than nullifies the disadvantage with his helix rocket and heal station if !@#$ gets hairy but the truth is, gun versus gun if Soldier's helix rocket is off cooldown he'll get eaten alive by McCree even if he has healing station on his feet. The headshot does too much damage and is relatively easy to hit.


We arent saying we want much to happen damage wise, increase his drop off a little bit by what 3 meters? and maybe increase his damage a little at max drop off. If i recall 76s first 5 shots hardly get any recoil? Dont think you should be holding down the button when using 76 anyway. Yes we all agree the peacemaker is a good gun but for most characters that is not what makes the whole hero. We dislike the fact that McCrees kit does not fit with what hes really meant to do or how he plays. Kits are what make up half of the hero. McCree just has a gun.

03/31/2017 01:17 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
https://clips.twitch.tv/PlausibleOpenCurryBudStar


Yeah he's a good player. Gets the surprise on a 76. Has good aim and when he goes against the 76 again he has a rein with him.

03/31/2017 01:17 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
https://clips.twitch.tv/ReliableAthleticDunlinCharlietheUnicorn


Another video of him playing well as McCree. Ya know we're not saying its impossible to do right? We are saying that hes kit doesn't really fit him, contains bugs and could do with some dev attention. Also yes well done you provide some footage of a pro player playing a hero well. We could also give ya footage of pros messing up as McCrees. What is the point you are trying to prove?

03/31/2017 01:17 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
Talk %^-*, get hit I guess.


Oh, i thought you said we started all the insults? That you wanted a discussion. Claiming what we are saying is absolute nonsense is not a discussion.

03/31/2017 01:17 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
McCree has insane skill ceiling and everybody not seeing this is a lameass noob and needs to git gut. You could be top 500 for all I care, but if you claim McCree is bad, you're a trash.


We arent denying he has a high skill ceiling. Again, another insult which we clearly started. Pretty sure OP is top 500? or was some point this season... Also why is a game which tries to target both casual and pro players, ignoring one, considerable larger side, of its fan base? We said he is not really viable any more, has bug which need fixing and his play style doesn't match his kit. OP says 'not performing as intended' not '!@#$ character, plz buff'. Oh another insult.

03/31/2017 05:21 AMPosted by Sk1ppeR
I stated facts before McCree wannabes started with the personal attack. I'm open for a discussion, but you are presenting your story like a major ahole. I don't give a rats !@# about your opinion as long as it's a pointless post.


Stated facts? Where? I replied to your entire first post. You state things off your own personal experience, as we all do however we got facts to back us up, show the flashbang not working or working in such away it is basically null.

Again in replying to your whole first message I picked out several insults directed at us. I don't agree with ether side throwing insults but its seems to be inevitable. If you start it, you might aswell expect it to happen back.

You ending statement to your first post was basically, 'this shows I'm right you're wrong, ha ha ha.'. Thats oh so very open to discussion. Yet we are the ones being an %^- about it? We stated facts in OP you said 'i disagree because i feel x, insult'.

Please if your going to play the victim card dont start the bar fight. Please realise that your facts where based on your own and a friends play time. It is impossible for you to have experienced everything that could have happened. Your are taking a possible sample size of what 25 million? and shrinking it down to two..... If you went to buy something online and found 2000 people saying it was terrible don't buy it, and 1 person saying its fine, you are saying you would buy it? No you wouldnt. Its simple maths and common sense.
Thank you for this extraordinary post.

Ideas for Mcree's audio telegraph for Deadeye:

1) An understated western piano or guitar themed riff, followed by silence and that wind-blown sound, a spur-spinning or rattling sound, then draw with "Draw!" audio callout. Very subtle audio queue, thematically tied to old spaghetti westerns, and unique to the game given that all others are some form of "This is what I'm going to do!" callouts.

2) Sound of a serape being thrown back, wind-blown silence and spur sound or rattling sound, closing out with draw and "Draw!" audio callout.

I know this sounds (very) similar to the existing model, but I think it would be a lot more fun and unique if the audio queue was punctuated by subtlety and anticipation for Mcree's enemies, not a massive "It's hiiiiigh nooooon!" callout. Force players to listen for subtle audio-queues and stillness, a-la a real western shootout scene.

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