D.Va's Current State: Discussion Megathread Part 14

General Discussion
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03/29/2017 05:55 AMPosted by DVa
03/29/2017 05:49 AMPosted by DexterousGek
What about 25 percent movement while firing and 300AR/300HP? Keep her tanky, but take away the chasing potential? I know someone might think I'm trolling, I'm really not, I just haven't really delved into her patch history a lot before now.


I know you're not trolling and I appreciate it.

I'd probably prefer 400/100 with just the movement speed to be honest. And old guns ofcourse if we're talking early-mid S2 revert.
It seems that the health broke her so why not try with just the movement speed? If it's not enough, add half the health and make her 400/150.


I think most D.VA players would prefer the 500 HP with the old damage and movement speed increase.

It would be the optimal version.
03/28/2017 02:26 PMPosted by Slade
03/28/2017 02:24 PMPosted by Medusahead
How long is this going to go on for?


Until they stop capping or Blizz fixes her. Whichever comes first.
I understand that a D.Va change is needed. I enjoy playing her as much as you do and there should be conversations about the possible changes in question. But you have to understand that this whole "we won't stop until Blizzard responds" thing is honestly a bit childish. To the rest of the forum, this string of megathreads looks like a bunch of whining. While the topics talked about are valid and need to be addressed, I have to say that I feel this is being done the wrong way. It's annoying when the developers don't comment on an issue, I understand this--but fourteen threads is excessive.
Haha that eota guy linking to a reddit post with 14 upvotes on the biggest videogame reddit there is, 10k upvotes on most posts, with 3 comments of dps mains stating dva is ok and Slade needs to get laid...I was discussing with him at first but he just doesnt care it seems. It's either his way or you're wrong. Inb4 "that could be said about D.Va mains"
03/29/2017 05:55 AMPosted by YOYO
As a stall, not as a real hero.
And now she's picked as a DM bot, not a real hero. Well, she's occasionally picked as a stall as well.

Actually, version 1.5 D.Va was used on payload offense as well, not just as a stall.
There seems to be a disconnect between D.Va mains. Some would rather her have more kill potential and some would prefer her to be a pure tank. The problem is both can't have what they want I think. 100health/400armor with 50 percent movement speed is 100 health lower than the overpowered beast that had 75 percent pickrate in the pro leagues. Unless people are saying that she wasn't overpowered, but that's a totally different argument.

I personally would like to see tanks damage lowered across the board to be more in line with Winstons killing potential. You have to be so careful with Winston to do well, but he can still work if you play him well. I wish more heroes were like that.
There seems to be a disconnect between D.Va mains. Some would rather her have more kill potential and some would prefer her to be a pure tank. The problem is both can't have what they want I think. 100health/400armor with 50 percent movement speed is 100 health lower than the overpowered beast that had 75 percent pickrate in the pro leagues. Unless people are saying that she wasn't overpowered, but that's a totally different argument.

I personally would like to see tanks damage lowered across the board to be more in line with Winstons killing potential. You have to be so careful with Winston to do well, but he can still work if you play him well. I wish more heroes were like that.


A 100 health 400 armor with 50% movement speed is still 100 health less then she was back then, when she was overpowered.
Plus, Ana's healing is way lower then what it was back then.

Between those two facts, I'd argue that it wouldn't make her Overpowered in the current scene.
Against specific heroes it would make her stronger, and against others it would make her weaker.
So its more of a redistribution rather then just a straight up buff.
03/29/2017 06:05 AMPosted by bladeofdarkn
There seems to be a disconnect between D.Va mains. Some would rather her have more kill potential and some would prefer her to be a pure tank. The problem is both can't have what they want I think. 100health/400armor with 50 percent movement speed is 100 health lower than the overpowered beast that had 75 percent pickrate in the pro leagues. Unless people are saying that she wasn't overpowered, but that's a totally different argument.

I personally would like to see tanks damage lowered across the board to be more in line with Winstons killing potential. You have to be so careful with Winston to do well, but he can still work if you play him well. I wish more heroes were like that.


A 100 health 400 armor with 50% movement speed is still 100 health less then she was back then, when she was overpowered.
Plus, Ana's healing is way lower then what it was back then.

Between those two facts, I'd argue that it wouldn't make her Overpowered in the current scene.
Against specific heroes it would make her stronger, and against others it would make her weaker.
So its more of a redistribution rather then just a straight up buff.


That's a fair point, i'll have to think about that. What about the fact that the devs seem to want Reaper to counter her (which was very difficult if not impossible with 400 armor)?
03/29/2017 06:01 AMPosted by DexterousGek
There seems to be a disconnect between D.Va mains. Some would rather her have more kill potential and some would prefer her to be a pure tank. The problem is both can't have what they want I think. 100health/400armor with 50 percent movement speed is 100 health lower than the overpowered beast that had 75 percent pickrate in the pro leagues. Unless people are saying that she wasn't overpowered, but that's a totally different argument.
Back during her quite brief stay at the top of the pro level food chain, the way to make her work as a super-resilient backline diver was to essentially shove Ana up her posterior.

So as I stated previously, I would have liked to see blizzard test how version 1.6 D.Va works in conjunction with an Ana that has had her primary fire healing reduced from 75 to 50 health per shot. That doesn't mean that I want them to revert D.Va to her version 1.6 stats, but I would like to see tests of how that statline works in conjunction with changes to other heroes.

Because as I stated in my longish thread that I linked to earlier, I don't think version 1.6 D.Va on her own is quite as overpowered as many claim. She's probably overpowered, but not enough to warrant the excessive way they nerfed it.

But barring changes to other characters, I prefer something that works roughly the same as the D.Va I have enjoyed playing ever since July. And the closest I can come to that in the current environment (taking damage buffs and playability buffs to other characters into account) is version 1.5 D.Va, but with the added 100 health form version 1.6.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

A 100 health 400 armor with 50% movement speed is still 100 health less then she was back then, when she was overpowered.
Plus, Ana's healing is way lower then what it was back then.

Between those two facts, I'd argue that it wouldn't make her Overpowered in the current scene.
Against specific heroes it would make her stronger, and against others it would make her weaker.
So its more of a redistribution rather then just a straight up buff.


That's a fair point, i'll have to think about that. What about the fact that the devs seem to want Reaper to counter her (which was very difficult if not impossible with 400 armor)?


If they want Reaper to counter armor, or well, tanks in general, give him a passive that allows him to do extra damage to armor. Makes no sense to make one hero weaker against the entire cast just because of Reaper
03/29/2017 06:10 AMPosted by DexterousGek
That's a fair point, i'll have to think about that. What about the fact that the devs seem to want Reaper to counter her (which was very difficult if not impossible with 400 armor)?
To that, I'll just say that I find it odd that the one tank that from the start seemed like it was designed specifically as a soft counter to pellet heroes (while, thanks to the mobility loss when firing, is countered by heroes with high damage per shot) is suddenly supposed to be countered by pellet heroes.

Heck, what killed off Reaper's play time wasn't D.Va, it was the removal of the speed buff from nanoboost (which pretty much killed off the beyblade combo).
03/29/2017 06:01 AMPosted by DexterousGek
There seems to be a disconnect between D.Va mains. Some would rather her have more kill potential and some would prefer her to be a pure tank. The problem is both can't have what they want I think. 100health/400armor with 50 percent movement speed is 100 health lower than the overpowered beast that had 75 percent pickrate in the pro leagues. Unless people are saying that she wasn't overpowered, but that's a totally different argument.

I personally would like to see tanks damage lowered across the board to be more in line with Winstons killing potential. You have to be so careful with Winston to do well, but he can still work if you play him well. I wish more heroes were like that.
Maybe some just feel one of the sides more strongly because it directly connects to their Rank. It's really hard to measure her performance across the board when almost no one clearly states how much experience they have with her and at which ranks.

At this point, after total silence from their part for so long, I'd just like to see a slew of small changes, like every 2 weeks, to try to reach something everyone's comfortable with.
Personally I feel both damage and defense are lacking, but damage seems to affect me more, being easily outdamaged by completely solo Soldiers got old months ago.
If reverting damage is a last resort, then add 1 pellet and very slightly decrease the spread.
Then while the old 100/400 seems better, at least give 300/300 a try if they're so adamant in keeping the 600 total.

Worse case scenario they can even try something absolutely ridiculous that every healer is gonna despise during brawls, like 300AR/300Shield. (Remember that shield is depleted before before Armor and offers the same "defense" as regular Hit Points.)

But at this point it would be nice to have something, and PTR is the right place to test it.
03/29/2017 06:05 AMPosted by bladeofdarkn
...

A 100 health 400 armor with 50% movement speed is still 100 health less then she was back then, when she was overpowered.
Plus, Ana's healing is way lower then what it was back then.

Between those two facts, I'd argue that it wouldn't make her Overpowered in the current scene.
Against specific heroes it would make her stronger, and against others it would make her weaker.
So its more of a redistribution rather then just a straight up buff.


That's a fair point, i'll have to think about that. What about the fact that the devs seem to want Reaper to counter her (which was very difficult if not impossible with 400 armor)?


Reaper never really countered her back when she had 500 HP with 400 Armor either.
The change to give her the extra 100 HP didn't effect that, since he was never really her counter to begin with.
Reaper himself arguably has other issues preventing him from being as effective in general, and D.VA's health reduction didn't actually improve his postion - D.VA's defense matrix is the reason why he's not effective against her, and not her Armor.

Going all the way back to when D.VA had 500 HP, her main counter was always Zarya, who was kinda overpowered at the time (her energy gain rate was too fast).
The same patch that nerfed Zarya's energy gain rate also buffed D.VA's HP to 600, so you had multiple different effects at the same time.

You had the same situation when D.VA was nerfed - Her health was changed at the same time that Ana's Grenade got its 50% nerf.
They applied 2 different things that reduced D.VA's survivability at the same time, without considering how much of an effect they would have together.
It still makes me laugh so hard when I see "unkillable 1v1 tank" pop up here.

D.Va wasn't unkillable, you were just bad and needed a crutch. 1v1ing a tank shouldn't be thought as an easy task unless you're a tank buster, which could still be done but the main hero for it has some flaws that make it harder for them to kill tanks in general.

Remember, Overwatch is a game of 1v1s and has nothing to do with teamwork in the slightest [insert sarcasm]
Again...see the stats!
http://www.omnicmeta.com/2017/03/pc-meta-report-s4w3.html

How much in the ground do D.Va needs to be in order for people to acknowledge she is nonviable. This should be easy enough to spot to anyone with basic chart reading skills. Better to acknowledge the mistake and rectify it than keep dragging it out.
If the devs have some magic numbers that do not represent the experience of countless of players and outside statistics, then please explain. But if their own numbers are anything resembling the ones posted above it should be clear enough that they destroyed her playable capability.
What is the other logic explanation? Get bad so you can play D.Va? Anyone above gold do not know how to properly use her?

This is past time to save face. Even if the devs let it cool down at some point they will have to address her dismal performance and I don't think players will perceive it as spontaneous awareness of her state. And more importantly some, like me, will correctly assume that the devs are more than willing to keep certain heroes down, even in the face of factual evidence that they are overly weak.

I personally found it so dumbfounded the reasons for D.Va nerf that it made clear to me I should abandon the character. I thought they were sacrificing D.Va in order to placate the problems of the triple tank meta. And the latest comments from Geoff just confirmed my suspicions. She was perceived as a problem and also as an easy target to eliminate, with little care for her player base. No soft re-balancing like in other nerfs. Just a blunt ax to all her stats.
So let it be clear, the game is still extremely fun and exciting, but there is no doubt that one hero is joke. Nerf this!
90% of the comments are "let's discuss guys whoo!!!" but don't even discuss anything.The other 10% are begging this guy to stop.
Ugh... This thread is toxic.
03/29/2017 06:36 AMPosted by FrostByte
90% of the comments are "let's discuss guys whoo!!!" but don't even discuss anything.The other 10% are begging this guy to stop.


And once again, someone that isn't reading the thread at all.
I am now 100% convinced that the devs have favourite heroes, and heroes that they resent.

Ana is a favourite, so she got her grenade nerf reverted in L E S S T H A N 1 2 H O U R S. Roadhog is a favourite, so he got compensation for his hook nerf. McCree is hated, since Soldier does everything he does but better, D.Va is hated, because she didn't get compensation for her nerf, and Mercy is hated, because "Screw Mercy! We'd rather Ana be picked, but Mercy is fine staying in F tier!"
03/29/2017 06:54 AMPosted by MrTaco
I am now 100% convinced that the devs have favourite heroes, and heroes that they resent.

Ana is a favourite, so she got her grenade nerf reverted in L E S S T H A N 1 2 H O U R S. Roadhog is a favourite, so he got compensation for his hook nerf. McCree is hated, since Soldier does everything he does but better, D.Va is hated, because she didn't get compensation for her nerf, and Mercy is hated, because "Screw Mercy! We'd rather Ana be picked, but Mercy is fine staying in F tier!"


D.VA is not hated, the Devs wouldn't have given her so many buffs if they didn't want her to be competitive.

The problem is that D.VA, more then any other tank, has the potential to completely break the game when overpowered, because she has the mobility to chase people down anywhere, and the defensive skill to shutdown any DPS character.

So I understand why they are worried about the possibility of overbuffing her again.
But the result is that they are refraining from giving her the "just right" amount of buffs to make her completely balanced.
03/29/2017 06:58 AMPosted by bladeofdarkn
03/29/2017 06:54 AMPosted by MrTaco
I am now 100% convinced that the devs have favourite heroes, and heroes that they resent.

Ana is a favourite, so she got her grenade nerf reverted in L E S S T H A N 1 2 H O U R S. Roadhog is a favourite, so he got compensation for his hook nerf. McCree is hated, since Soldier does everything he does but better, D.Va is hated, because she didn't get compensation for her nerf, and Mercy is hated, because "Screw Mercy! We'd rather Ana be picked, but Mercy is fine staying in F tier!"


D.VA is not hated, the Devs wouldn't have given her so many buffs if they didn't want her to be competitive.

The problem is that D.VA, more then any other tank, has the potential to completely break the game when overpowered, because she has the mobility to chase people down anywhere, and the defensive skill to shutdown any DPS character.

So I understand why they are worried about the possibility of overbuffing her again.
But the result is that they are refraining from giving her the "just right" amount of buffs to make her completely balanced.


Thing is though, we've given them enough "Just rights!"
We proposed to turn her back to 100/400, but nope.

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