D.va antisynergy with healer ults

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It's a pretty logical change to make, and it wouldn't turn D.va into a "bully". It's also, alongside the critbox reduction people ask for, one of the easiest ways to add survivability to D.va without buffing her stats.
What's this black screen bug? I haven't experienced it
You're complaining that the only character in the game with two lives to one kill is at a disadvantage when it comes to rezzing?

Sorry man but first world problems ha ha
04/12/2017 08:23 AMPosted by Isperion
You're complaining that the only character in the game with two lives to one kill is at a disadvantage when it comes to rezzing?

Sorry man but first world problems ha ha

She's not the only tank with self-heal. And roadhog gets to do it every 10 seconds (2 second animation, 8 second cooldown). That means hog gets a new life every 20 seconds. D.va has to work up an ult to self-heal, that's balance enough without having to rez at 25% health.

Alternatively, I'd be ok with Roadhog being rezzed at 150 health, with his Take a Breather cooldown reset so he can use it right away, just like D.va is rezzed at 150 health with her self-heal Call Mech fully charged so she can use it right away. Both would get CC'd 5 times before using it, or in the 2 seconds it takes to finish, and then it would be fair. Lol. At least hog would still be healing under fire unless stunned, whereas D.va remains at 150 health for the whole 2 second duration and would still be more likely to die than Roadhog in this hypothetical scenario.

Or we can just fix D.va so she rezzes properly.
04/12/2017 08:21 AMPosted by Megadimastic
What's this black screen bug? I haven't experienced it

Basically, when your mech gets destroyed by Rein, and your pilot gets hammered during the mech destruction animation, the screen goes black for a second with a big red error signal in korean in the middle. You see nothing. The error signal is normally just an overlay over your view, not over a black screen.

I find it occurs less often if you hold space bar and a direction to make the pilot jump out of mech. But it's still an annoying bug.
04/12/2017 09:24 AMPosted by Greenche
She's not the only tank with self-heal. And roadhog gets to do it every 10 seconds (2 second animation, 8 second cooldown). That means hog gets a new life every 20 seconds. D.va has to work up an ult to self-heal, that's balance enough without having to rez at 25% health.


I don't think that is an apt comparison when you neglect to account for the other abilities a Hero has. Does Roadhog have ability to negate large amounts of damage from the opposing team?
1. Dva is fine. Stop trying to buff her.

2. Dva's ult resets her health. Only tank that has this. Winston will not get any health back after his ultimate ends. Dva can be zeroed in her mecha and she goes "NERF THIS!" and boom gets 600 back...

3. Mercy revives person as they died.

4. Dva is effectively the only character with 1200 hp/armor , she goes in with her ult fights you you drop her from 600 to 0 then goes NERF THIS! and she gets 600 back and there you go.

That's the reason this is not a Quality of Life change for her but a buff if she rezed in her mecha if she died out of it.

DVA NEEDS TO HAVE A WEAKNESS LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
I bet the same people that shot down my idea to have more armor for no second life saying "you will take away what makes her unique" are the same ones now saying, "second life is a weakness and annoying and doesnt help the team" Dva mains just complain so much its hard to take them seriously anymore.
04/12/2017 09:44 AMPosted by Anakaris
04/12/2017 09:24 AMPosted by Greenche
She's not the only tank with self-heal. And roadhog gets to do it every 10 seconds (2 second animation, 8 second cooldown). That means hog gets a new life every 20 seconds. D.va has to work up an ult to self-heal, that's balance enough without having to rez at 25% health.


I don't think that is an apt comparison when you neglect to account for the other abilities a Hero has. Does Roadhog have ability to negate large amounts of damage from the opposing team?

Yes: Rez, hook, dead. 1/6th of enemy damage negated instantly. D.va and Roadhog tank differently, and self-heal differently, but neither of those differences makes one of them rezzing at 25% of the health of the other fair or balanced.
04/06/2017 01:45 PMPosted by Greenche
But all it is is self heal. Not more or less powerful than hog huffing every 10 seconds


Not entirely true. Call mech does damage on calldown in a small radius, and once her voice-line is finished you're invulnerable until the mech starts up. Call Mech does approximately 50 damage if the Mech lands on a player.

Self-Destruct is alwayscharging, although I believe it charges at a slower rate when you're out of your mech. (It's charging in the background!) and damage output counts towards BOTH.

Call Mech only charges when you're out of your mech. The two have independent meters;
you will see Self-Destruct's meter when you're in the mech, and you see Call Mech's meter when out of the mech or dead. They're two independent ults.
Additionally, losing a mech and calling it again gives a lot of ultimate charge for the next round- you don't start from 0 and you don't lose 100% either, and simply the act of dealing damage and the time out of the mech means it can be ready immediately upon call mech, which often happens.

One thing to note is that her destruct is one of the fastest charging ults in the game. It charges ESPECIALLY fast when you get booster kills, even more so if those are environmental. If you're going to die, booster into the weakest thing around, and towards environmental if possible. I've had my call mech ready immediately because I booped someone right before ejecting.

She also has the smallest hitbox in the game when out of the mech, moves really fast, and her blaster is significantly ridiculous dps wise, you just have to be VERY careful. Considering she has projectile erasure as a always ready rightclick skill I think she's balanced as hell. If you want to increase her survivability out of mech pair her with Torb or Symmetra, and she has almost the same health as every other flanker, and more DPS then most support. Allowing her to get potshots on you is a bad idea for every reason.

The other issues with healer synergy are true though, as the mech and D.va herself basically exist as two separate entities.

1) A mercy rez should probably force a calldown during invulnerability frames,
2) lucio's ult shouldn't apply to d.va as she already has invulnerability frames during the eject.
3) Ana's ultimate should maybe apply to the radius of self destruct, but not to baby d.va after.
4) Zenyatta's orb should not apply to baby d.va out of mech (and I main zen, this would be great for me!) because Zarya can erase the discord with bubble, reaper can ghost away, etc. They need the protection.

I personally think D.va's eject should apply a small amount of damage (like 25-50) to anyone in a tiny radius of it when ejecting to provide her with a little more escape, but that's it.
Here we have it, folks. The lunacy continues with D.va buff supporters. This person is actually mad that there are problems in getting a potential second life.
I don't think that this topic is to talk about buffing or something over that.

What I'm trying to say is: it has been like this since the beta. It creates so much frustrating over D.Va players or even me.

Rez with mini D.Va is equal to lose 1 of the team member.

To those D.Va haters, could you say that if you face the same problem after res, you won't feel frustrate that you "help" nothing to the team?

It is her QoL, since the beta. Nothing has been changed and always a flaw nowaday. I didn't even play D.Va, but I would feel the same way when being rez but can't do anything to the team until I hide to somewhere.

At least, let her automatically Call Mech during the invulnerable but deal no damage to allow her uses full potential like other hero.
I really hate all the dva complain threads but this one I actually agree with.
I'm puzzled why is this a thing. One of the core basics of what makes D.va as a playable character is the ability of constantly getting in and out of your mech. But the majority of times it's a burden to the player than a second chance. The only times I see it as a second chance is when you get your meka destroyed away from the enemy, so you can shoot them to get a new one, and even then, it's a burden for your team because Pilot D.va isn't a tank.

On higher plays, if she gets her meka destroyed, people will stagger her as much as they can.

And to make it worse, when you call your mech back you get fixated in that point of the map while the animation plays. Oh and she can get killed while the player doesn't even gets the chance to do something about it other than hide before calling it, which is fine but on overtime where your team is dying because they are lacking a tank? You will have to call mech right there and hope you don't get killed.
You didn't got killed while you were getting inside your mech? No worries you just spawned a freshly new mech with less health because the moment the meka falls from the sky it can take damage! Seriously. Nothing gets me annoyed as a support to see our D.va call a new mech just to get out of it because it got instantly destroyed.
Your meka got destroyed? Good luck! Because you can get killed even before you got out of it. D.va can be stunned, hooked and slept the second she gets out her mech, even before the player gets the ability to control Pilot D.va.

Honestly the only good solution for this is to give her invincibility frames when getting in and out of your mech, I'm not sure about making the mech invincible until the player gets to control it, I like the idea since it would boost her survivability, but the invincibility frames would help a lot with her awful synergy with support ults.
I would love to see the devs give us some thoughts on this idea..
04/12/2017 11:21 AMPosted by Lhun
04/06/2017 01:45 PMPosted by Greenche
But all it is is self heal. Not more or less powerful than hog huffing every 10 seconds


Not entirely true. Call mech does damage on calldown in a small radius, and once her voice-line is finished you're invulnerable until the mech starts up. Call Mech does approximately 50 damage if the Mech lands on a player.

Self-Destruct is alwayscharging, although I believe it charges at a slower rate when you're out of your mech. (It's charging in the background!) and damage output counts towards BOTH.

Call Mech only charges when you're out of your mech. The two have independent meters;
you will see Self-Destruct's meter when you're in the mech, and you see Call Mech's meter when out of the mech or dead. They're two independent ults.
Additionally, losing a mech and calling it again gives a lot of ultimate charge for the next round- you don't start from 0 and you don't lose 100% either, and simply the act of dealing damage and the time out of the mech means it can be ready immediately upon call mech, which often happens.

One thing to note is that her destruct is one of the fastest charging ults in the game. It charges ESPECIALLY fast when you get booster kills, even more so if those are environmental. If you're going to die, booster into the weakest thing around, and towards environmental if possible. I've had my call mech ready immediately because I booped someone right before ejecting.

She also has the smallest hitbox in the game when out of the mech, moves really fast, and her blaster is significantly ridiculous dps wise, you just have to be VERY careful. Considering she has projectile erasure as a always ready rightclick skill I think she's balanced as hell. If you want to increase her survivability out of mech pair her with Torb or Symmetra, and she has almost the same health as every other flanker, and more DPS then most support. Allowing her to get potshots on you is a bad idea for every reason.

The other issues with healer synergy are true though, as the mech and D.va herself basically exist as two separate entities.

1) A mercy rez should probably force a calldown during invulnerability frames,
2) lucio's ult shouldn't apply to d.va as she already has invulnerability frames during the eject.
3) Ana's ultimate should maybe apply to the radius of self destruct, but not to baby d.va after.
4) Zenyatta's orb should not apply to baby d.va out of mech (and I main zen, this would be great for me!) because Zarya can erase the discord with bubble, reaper can ghost away, etc. They need the protection.

I personally think D.va's eject should apply a small amount of damage (like 25-50) to anyone in a tiny radius of it when ejecting to provide her with a little more escape, but that's it.

You imply there's invincibility frames when calling mech, there are not, then you go on to suggest they should add them. Confused.
Getting rez'd out of MEKA on the final point of the Anubis map really sucks during a push.
What I want to discuss is more a matter of principle, so please try to see if you agree or disagree with me in principle.
Some quirks are discussed here that are obvious unintentional oversights. Those need to be fixed like bugs. On the other hand some proposed solutions are to make her more generic and thus less unique. I would say that some of the quirks that come with D.Va's design make the game more fun. For instance that guy that told about the Roadhog that hooked a self-destructing mech behind a shield; and even the fact that she can pick up Torbs armor separately from her mech doesn't evoke the reaction "well, I guess" with me, but "haha, of course".
I recognize some of the problems discussed here. But I would like the character to be build around the quirks, and not have unique traits be traded in so she can literally be more on par with Roadhog. I would like D.Va (or any hero for that matter) to be quirkier, while still having the same QoL as comparable heroes.
E.G. Have Mercy's Resurrection work on D.Va's mech as if it were a separate entity. This means either that resurrection gives baby D.Va a fully charged ult meter wherever D.Va is, or that it performs Call Mech for a baby D.Va. (I understand that it is quite impractical to survive as baby D.Va alongside a Mercy. But also consider it isn't unlikely that you are demeched after most of your team mates died.)
Some of the arguments here seem to imply that D.Va in her mech isn't a full character. Because you say that it isn't fair baby D.Va doesn't retain buffs, while they are the same character. If that truly were the case, D.Va would need improved stats, because apparently she doesn't count as a full fledged tank. On the other hand if you think that her stats and kit are somewhat reasonable for a tank, you should acknowledge that baby D.Va is a bonus.
That brings me to my next point. By no means is baby D.Va a full second life. But, even if you see it as an awkward risky healing ability, it still is an awkward risky healing ability that automatically activates upon dying. There is great value in such an ability, because it does give you some chance where normally you'd have none at all. I'm not trying to say the current implementation is good or just, but it is a unique trait that deserves to be preserved.
If you'd ask me for a QoL improvement for her demeching mechanic (and of course this improvement is apart from the bug fixes that are needed), I'd be inclined to make it more interesting and not more boring. Perhaps they could buff baby D.Va to be the DPS monster opponents of D.Va claim her to be. In that way demeching truly becomes a double-edged sword, and perhaps a more viable healing ability (if not at least ensuring her escape).
Her mech/pilot duality might not just be a quirk, but a core mechanic. You shouldn't put arbitrary exceptions around a character's important traits. I like that there is a character that splits off into another character, and I kind of like the consequences it has. If you say these consequences put her in a bad spot, I think other traits should compensate for that, instead of trying to arbitrarily ignore her most important traits.

The OP brings up a good point up though, that should definitely be considered in the balancing of D.Va.
No uniqueness justifies rezzing at 25% health.

I don't see the value in that. Just make the calldown animation happen during the invulnerability frames. That's unique. And it doesn't leave her with the honour of "only tank who's automatically dead at rez".
She needs to be rezzed in her mech. Period.
No-no-no. I want changes for D'va, but not this kind.

I like the separate mechanic of baby D'va and her mech. Cos D'va is D'va - she's the girl in mech not the mech itself.

I like that after being resd i need to rapidly analyze the situation to decide where is it safe to call mech.

Nanoboost depends on communication, like in any other way.

And basses, well it's probably a bill for second life. Anyway Zen's tranquil still applies no matter are u engaging or disengaging from the mech)

Btw, does Zen's discord remove from D'va after entering the mech and after disengaging? Cos it should as well. But i'm not sure about that.

And as i said - i want changes for D'va, but this seems too unnatural even for OW.

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