A counter to pharah people have forgot about

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D.Va doesn't counter Pharah anymore...

Her DM lasts 4 seconds...so pointing it up in the air to block Pharah is just gonna leave you extremely vulnerable to threats on the ground. Also, trying to fly up to Pharah to get in a bit of damage is a death sentence because you'll fall back to the ground and get focused by the enemy team while you try to hit Pharah who is now out of your damage range.

Before D.Va was nerfed...you could boop Pharah in the air and finish her off with a few well placed shots. Her damage falloff was nerfed however and she doesn't have enough range to compete with Pharah. It should also be mentioned that Pharah likes to fly around near areas where you will fall off the map if you try to fly up and do some damage up close...so that doesn't work either.

Bastion stands more of a chance against Pharah than D.Va does...
It's torb for me. Ugh I just can't stand it when the turret sets it's sights on me when I'm up in the air.
03/30/2017 11:44 AMPosted by Angel
03/30/2017 11:38 AMPosted by Girnas
I'm not gonna try to argue your point because I don't have experience in that rank. but as I said, this thread is targeted more towards those who aren't very confident with their aim, as they might not know what to pick against pharahs.

My point is not that Pharah doesn't have any counters. It's just D.Va was never one of them (even when D.Va was pre-nerf, she could at best oppose Pharah, not counter her).


As I said, I don't have any experience at your rank, but Dva is certainly a counter for pharah. Even the pros believe that as they brought out Dva against mangachu, who is considered the best pro-pharah in NA. And they completely shut him down with her
03/30/2017 08:00 AMPosted by Girnas
there's one counter to pharah people seem to forget, and that hero has always been a counter since release. hell that pharah counter right now is better than ever against her

and that's Dva.

yes yes you can cry about how blizz rekt dva and how she's literally unplayable and all that. But the matter of fact is DM completely shuts down Pharah. and unlike mccree, soldier, or widow, Dva doesn't necessarily require good aim to stop a pharah in her tracks, just good Defense Matrix cooldown management.

when the game released, that's who people suggested when someone has trouble with a pharah, and with both the DM buff and extra 100hp, she's a much better counter against her now than ever


THANK YOU!!!

I've been saying this in these threads all along and keep getting downvoted for it

Over 300 hours on Pharah and I hate a vigilant D.Va

She will do attrition damage to me the whole time, putting me on a clock - is she senses I'm a bit *too* low in charges at me with matrix active, headbuts me, hoses me with her plinkers and repeats until I die - she easily finishes her off if say Widow lands a bodyshot or Ana gets two shots in etc.

She doesn't even need to wait for an "opening" to do this if she wants to abandon the rest of team fight to do it - just chase Pharah to the ends of the earth until she dies - sure D.va is out of the fight while doing it and it may take a bit - but Pharah isn't doing anything but run either and in the end D.Va will rejoin her team first as Pharah will be dead

Sometimes of course it may not go that way, but if you show me such a situation, I'll show you a Pharah that outplayed a D.Va

Other unrealized Pharah counters:

Winston - jump n zap - repeat
Sombra - spread means lower damage, but aqlso means all but guaranteed damage - attrition her to death while dodgeing rockets
Tracer - just like Sombra, except Sombra is better at it
Just watching the VOD of Selfless vs. Complexity. When Selfless encounters Pharmercy, Emongg (usually on Roadhog) switches to D.Va. Selfless rarely ever switches from their default comp, so this is a pretty strong endorsement. So much for "only helps at lower ranks where aim is bad". Nobody would question Dafran's aim on 76.

VOD is here if you'd like to watch the game yourself (a bit one-sided though):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D6tHdliiOA

The second half of Hanamura was interesting as well. Complexity starting with D.Va instead of Winston as the dive tank and again Emongg immediately switches out to D.Va after seeing the Pharmercy (he didn't even wait to die).

On Nepal, Emongg starts on Roadhog on Sanctum, but again starts on D.Va at Shrine, where they presumably (and correctly) anticipated the Pharmercy. On Village he starts again on D.Va but switches back to Roadhog when Col isn't actually playing Pharmercy.

As a sidenote, this is one reason why I really don't like the popular suggestion to revert D.Va back to 100/400, as that would make her much weaker against Pharah again.
03/30/2017 08:12 AMPosted by QueenSaltine
I've actually been wanting to pick DVA into a Pharah, but I'm just not too sure about it with the current dva.

It feels like no matter what, my mech is obliterated in seconds if an enemy sees me. I have decent tracking and getting up in a Zen or Tracers face is still incredibly scary cuz I know they can and will burst me out of mech by the time I get the kill on them.

Then I have no mech or matrix to eat the pharah ult.

Any tips? :(


I find that being a harrassment is more effective then going up in their face. You may be a tank, but remember DM is what defines D.va

Rather then flying into the enemy team, try managing your cds of Thruster and DM. Fly in there and DM, or use DM first and if you see and opportunity to take someone out that is low, fly into them and take them out.

Most important tip: Put trust into your teammates. If they are behind you, let them do the damage and you do the blocking.
04/01/2017 11:28 PMPosted by Zenity
Just watching the VOD of Selfless vs. Complexity. When Selfless encounters Pharmercy, Emongg (usually on Roadhog) switches to D.Va. Selfless rarely ever switches from their default comp, so this is a pretty strong endorsement. So much for "only helps at lower ranks where aim is bad". Nobody would question Dafran's aim on 76.

VOD is here if you'd like to watch the game yourself (a bit one-sided though):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D6tHdliiOA

The second half of Hanamura was interesting as well. Complexity starting with D.Va instead of Winston as the dive tank and again Emongg immediately switches out to D.Va after seeing the Pharmercy (he didn't even wait to die).

On Nepal, Emongg starts on Roadhog on Sanctum, but again starts on D.Va at Shrine, where they presumably (and correctly) anticipated the Pharmercy. On Village he starts again on D.Va but switches back to Roadhog when Col isn't actually playing Pharmercy.

As a sidenote, this is one reason why I really don't like the popular suggestion to revert D.Va back to 100/400, as that would make her much weaker against Pharah again.


I made a thread about Dva's viability in the META, and it turned quite a few heads

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20753736500#post-1

You might be interested in the discussion there
IMO the real Pharah counter people forget is Widow.
04/02/2017 12:46 AMPosted by ShinyPants
IMO the real Pharah counter people forget is Widow.


People didn't forget, but she require a fairly decent level of mechanical skill, which realistically you shouldn't expect everyone to have.

Dva doesn't require as much mechanical skill to deal with pharah, just good positioning and DM management
Honestly I don't think it's Pharah that's the issue, it's the fact you can take mercy along for the ride.

On her own Pharah can be easily harassed and forced to flee or die. The balance is that she's constantly raining hell upon you from above until you deal with her causing you to make a Sophie's choice between ignoring her harassment or diverting your attention to trying to swat her out of the air.

On her own this ain't too difficult or unfair, enough shots will send her running to her healer. Combine her with a constant healing ray for when she's under fire or a damage ray for when she's ignored and we have an issue.

She's often at the fall off range of most hit scan heroes so the odds of bursting down her or Mercy before she either murders you or flies off is somewhat slim depending on the map.

Granted long range rockets ain't the hardest thing in the world to dodge, but she has a lot of them, and it's not exactly practical to constantly be looking up when I have her team in my face trying to murderilize me.

Right now it just feels like she gets all the advantages of the flankers with little of the risk that usually entails.

I honestly don't think she'd be that big of a issue if they put a limit on Mercy's ability to travel along with her. We still have Zen's orb, but that puts Pharah on a limited leash. Plus it's generally easier to kill a ground bound Zen than a Mercy soaring through the air. Seems easier to change that one little aspect than nerfing a otherwise decently balanced hero.
*gets into thread, reads it, sees that it's highly rated...*

....I have played this game quite a lot and I just don't see how Dva is a Pharah counter...?
Sure, DM negates damage for 4 sec and flying towards an ulting pharah will eventually kill her due to splash dmg from her own rockets, but...a counter...really? Maybe I am misinterpreting the definition of counters but...I really don't get it? How does a Dva ever kill a Pharah? Fly up to her and tickle her for about 1 second before she falls back down again? Even Winston can do that...
Either I am just terrible at this game or the community is eager to list every possible way of scratching a Pharah to justify her existence as is. Perhaps the next thing I will read on here is how Orisa counters Pharah as well. And then Rein's firestrike.

The hell, man...
03/30/2017 08:38 AMPosted by JuneBeezy
03/30/2017 08:06 AMPosted by Girnas
...

so dva loses in a 1v2 situation ? seems balanced.

besides, that literally has nothing to do with it. because you're not killing the pharah, you're making her useless by DM'ing her rockets, pushing her off highground, negating her ult. and do you know how hard it is to avoid Dva bomb as pharah ? because it's pretty hard


No, you definitely do kill the pharah. I main d.va and I can generally drop a pharah pretty quick. DM to protect your team for sure, but you should also be boosting up and melee attacking her then shooting as you fall. You can kill her in 2-3 boosts if she's not being healed. And if she's being pocketed by Mercy, go for her instead. Zenyatta healing throws a wrench in the works through.


Been sayin this all along

Dva wrecks Pharah

Fly at Pharah - headbutt - hose with guns - repeat until dead
If a teammate gets a meatshot against her - time to go finish her off

Even if she is annoying your team and no one can/will help she can solo

Just do the above, only chase her to the ends of the earth while doing it

Sure it will take you out of the fight for awhile - granted - but same for the enemy Pharah and you will return to the team fight sooner as Pharah will be dead
04/02/2017 02:05 AMPosted by Chaghatai
03/30/2017 08:38 AMPosted by JuneBeezy
...

No, you definitely do kill the pharah. I main d.va and I can generally drop a pharah pretty quick. DM to protect your team for sure, but you should also be boosting up and melee attacking her then shooting as you fall. You can kill her in 2-3 boosts if she's not being healed. And if she's being pocketed by Mercy, go for her instead. Zenyatta healing throws a wrench in the works through.


Been sayin this all along

Dva wrecks Pharah

Fly at Pharah - headbutt - hose with guns - repeat until dead
If a teammate gets a meatshot against her - time to go finish her off

Even if she is annoying your team and no one can/will help she can solo

Just do the above, only chase her to the ends of the earth while doing it

Sure it will take you out of the fight for awhile - granted - but same for the enemy Pharah and you will return to the team fight sooner as Pharah will be dead


This sounds more like a desperate means of dealing with something because you have no other option. Like, when you are running out of ammo for your rifle, you start throwing rocks instead. It may take longer, but eventually it will get the job done, right?

That's what this sounds to me, tbh. :/
I've seen a lot of pharah/mercys and winstons in the upper level (via twitch and professional matches).

DVA is great for countering pharah. Also, you forgot to mention Winston and Genji as well. Both of them are great at countering pharmercy (especially when they focus on mercy first).
04/02/2017 02:12 AMPosted by Endlave
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Been sayin this all along

Dva wrecks Pharah

Fly at Pharah - headbutt - hose with guns - repeat until dead
If a teammate gets a meatshot against her - time to go finish her off

Even if she is annoying your team and no one can/will help she can solo

Just do the above, only chase her to the ends of the earth while doing it

Sure it will take you out of the fight for awhile - granted - but same for the enemy Pharah and you will return to the team fight sooner as Pharah will be dead


This sounds more like a desperate means of dealing with something because you have no other option. Like, when you are running out of ammo for your rifle, you start throwing rocks instead. It may take longer, but eventually it will get the job done, right?

That's what this sounds to me, tbh. :/


What works, works

You don't need a super deathkill - one and done in two seconds hard counter - the fact that you can choose to initiate a death chase and kill her pretty much any time and she cannot do the same against you should be make it pretty obvious who counters who

You sound entitled like you think it should come easy

People need to get used to the idea that Dva is a hit and run attrition machine, nor a murder bully
04/02/2017 02:00 AMPosted by Endlave
*gets into thread, reads it, sees that it's highly rated...*

....I have played this game quite a lot and I just don't see how Dva is a Pharah counter...?
Sure, DM negates damage for 4 sec and flying towards an ulting pharah will eventually kill her due to splash dmg from her own rockets, but...a counter...really? Maybe I am misinterpreting the definition of counters but...I really don't get it? How does a Dva ever kill a Pharah? Fly up to her and tickle her for about 1 second before she falls back down again? Even Winston can do that...
Either I am just terrible at this game or the community is eager to list every possible way of scratching a Pharah to justify her existence as is. Perhaps the next thing I will read on here is how Orisa counters Pharah as well. And then Rein's firestrike.

The hell, man...


Killing your enemy isn't the only way to defeat them.

Dva counters pharah as in she declaw her, making her basically useless for the majority of the fight.

I urge you to read through the posts, many people here gave detailed examples of how they either dealt with pharahs as Dva, or how they themselves got shutdown by enemy Dvas
04/02/2017 02:16 AMPosted by Girnas
04/02/2017 02:00 AMPosted by Endlave
*gets into thread, reads it, sees that it's highly rated...*

....I have played this game quite a lot and I just don't see how Dva is a Pharah counter...?
Sure, DM negates damage for 4 sec and flying towards an ulting pharah will eventually kill her due to splash dmg from her own rockets, but...a counter...really? Maybe I am misinterpreting the definition of counters but...I really don't get it? How does a Dva ever kill a Pharah? Fly up to her and tickle her for about 1 second before she falls back down again? Even Winston can do that...
Either I am just terrible at this game or the community is eager to list every possible way of scratching a Pharah to justify her existence as is. Perhaps the next thing I will read on here is how Orisa counters Pharah as well. And then Rein's firestrike.

The hell, man...


Killing your enemy isn't the only way to defeat them.

Dva counters pharah as in she declaw her, making her basically useless for the majority of the fight.

I urge you to read through the posts, many people here gave detailed examples of how they either dealt with pharahs as Dva, or how they themselves got shutdown by enemy Dvas


So true - forcing Pharah into a stalemate where neither of you are helping the team much, except you have a much greater chance of killing and returning to the main battle sooner is NOT GLAMOROUS - when word gets out that this ABSOLUTELY works, the Dva mains will change their tune to something like "Well I shouldn't have to be the Pharah chasing bot"

Any role that works, but they find unfun they call "bot" as if it proves their point

Ana: "I don't want to be a heal bot"
Dva: "I don't want to be a matrix bot"

The commom theme is ME ME ME - I don't want to spend my time helping my team instead of getting my own frags

And to that poster who brought Winston hoping it would reinforce their point: Yes, yes that means Winston can her counter too - since he does
...

This sounds more like a desperate means of dealing with something because you have no other option. Like, when you are running out of ammo for your rifle, you start throwing rocks instead. It may take longer, but eventually it will get the job done, right?

That's what this sounds to me, tbh. :/


What works, works

You don't need a super deathkill - one and done in two seconds hard counter - the fact that you can choose to initiate a death chase and kill her pretty much any time and she cannot do the same against you should be make it pretty obvious who counters who

You sound entitled like you think it should come easy

People need to get used to the idea that Dva is a hit and run attrition machine, nor a murder bully


Entitled, huh. Sorry for not seeing this your way, lol.

I know what Dva is supposed to do, but if she does as you suggest to, in the best case scenario, she and pharah are playing their own game of cat and mice in which Dva might win after a tremendous amount of time. In the worst case, though, Dva will start the chase, then get focused by the rest of Pharah's team and forrced to retreat, putting an effective end to the "counter". Heck, if Pharah is being healed, you will die even without her team helping. Sure, you can argue that if Pharah is being healed, Dva needs to be healed as well, but not only would that also mean that your team will have to dedicate one healer to Dva, it's also way easier for Pharah to kill your healer because her rockets are simply deadlier and Pharah doesn't have to wait for her cds to reset to attack again.

I've read this thread for a while and many people seems to agree with this tactic, but I, quite frankly, am not seeing it. No matter whether you want to kill or merely deter a Pharah, to me the most suitable solution would be to get a few hitscan heroes on the job. Or even just Hanzo, Zenyatta or even Genji.
I was actually kind of shocked when I found this out. I mean, yeah, I've played Dva before, but I rarely play her now. And I also never play Pharah, but I had a Pharah main friend who was complaining about Dva, and I was like.... really? Dva? um.... okay! XD
03/30/2017 08:00 AMPosted by Girnas
there's one counter to pharah people seem to forget, and that hero has always been a counter since release. hell that pharah counter right now is better than ever against her

and that's Dva.

yes yes you can cry about how blizz rekt dva and how she's literally unplayable and all that. But the matter of fact is DM completely shuts down Pharah. and unlike mccree, soldier, or widow, Dva doesn't necessarily require good aim to stop a pharah in her tracks, just good Defense Matrix cooldown management.

when the game released, that's who people suggested when someone has trouble with a pharah, and with both the DM buff and extra 100hp, she's a much better counter against her now than ever

So youre basically saying that she IS in fact a DM bot. Well this is her only strong tool at the moment so i understand why you say she counters her but it would be much better to take someone that could do a lot more than D.Va rather than an ult charger for enemies. And while yeah she can delete her ult and shots entirely(obviously)it recuires a lot of communication since DM only last for so long.

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