McCree: The Abandoned & Dysfunctional Kit

General Discussion
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04/10/2017 11:34 AMPosted by NotMcCree
Tells people that their data isn't data.

Provides zero data.

Lol.

You don't know how the burden of proof works when you're making a claim, do you?
In another post, I put some commentary on Jeff's comment towards Americans and McCree players everywhere seeing a bit of themselves in him:

"The one unforgivable offense I've taken lies in a certain developer saying it's sad Americans see themselves like McCree in any such way. Yes, because it's bad wanting to atone for sins and being willing to walk armed and stand for what's right when many are scared, unable or unwilling. It's bad to know how to defend yourself with a gun because the world isn't the cheery place they want to suggest. We do look at the world for how it could be, but that does not mean we won't see it for how it is."

Then there's the suggested implication that McCree isn't as viable due to the existing meta. Recently it was announced, should I recall correctly, internal testing of Reaper changes are underway to fix this. Yet we're looking at a similar situation for McCree, in addition to nerfs, inconsistencies and underwhelming kit abilities; only to be by and by ignored time and time again.

Lo! Jeff spoke out of perhaps tweaking the damage of 76, simultaneously saying they want to be careful not to remove him from the meta, nor Reinhardt, out of concern of affecting the player base but also those compositions relying on those characters. Meaning for all intents and purposes, Blizzard has a clear cut and intended portion of the cast to be predominantly used.

This is essentially a battle for our beloved hero and his existence, with each and every NotMcCree thread being our Alamo. Perhaps we might finally get the recognition we not only need for a better balanced game in whole, but the balance we deserve. Stop being afraid our skill might actually reward us the wins we would be earning without having to bow and form to your core of favorites, Blizzard. I love Reinhardt, I do. But McCree is and will be my boy, and I'm not willing to let the sun set on him sending him to retirement. It's high noon!
04/10/2017 11:39 AMPosted by emtwo
04/10/2017 11:34 AMPosted by NotMcCree
...
Tells people that their data isn't data.

Provides zero data.

Lol.

Show me one thing on the OP that is an actual piece of data, and not just an opinion in bullet-point form.

But here's some real data for you, since you're too lazy to read the sources I gave you.

There are 11 heroes (46% of the roster) that are picked less for Competitive and picked less for Tournaments than McCree, which would suggest to any rational observer that McCree is comfortably in the middle of the pack.

>Claims to provide sources.
>Doesn't provide any.
04/10/2017 11:43 AMPosted by RagedShadow
>Claims to provide sources.
>Doesn't provide any.

>Already provided them earlier
https://www.overbuff.com/heroes?mode=competitive
https://www.overbuff.com/blog/2017-03-31-overwatch-hero-tier-list-and-meta-report-something-strange-is-afoot-in-korea
04/10/2017 11:27 AMPosted by emtwo
04/10/2017 11:25 AMPosted by NotMcCree
...
No he isn't. My post illustrates this.

All data and statistics available disagree with you.

So why should we believe your subjective anecdotal stories over the facts?


I really want to see this guy's "all data and statistics that disagree" with all the data and statistics right here, provided by NotMcCree.
04/10/2017 11:45 AMPosted by emtwo

https://www.overbuff.com/heroes?mode=competitive
https://www.overbuff.com/blog/2017-03-31-overwatch-hero-tier-list-and-meta-report-something-strange-is-afoot-in-korea

Thank you for proving that McCree has some of the of the lowest win rates and popularity ratings.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
04/10/2017 11:46 AMPosted by Raisins
I really want to see this guy's "all data and statistics that disagree" with all the data and statistics right here, provided by NotMcCree.

Which part of the OP's opinions is supposed to be statistical? I've looked, and I can't find it.
04/10/2017 11:45 AMPosted by emtwo
04/10/2017 11:43 AMPosted by RagedShadow
>Claims to provide sources.
>Doesn't provide any.

>Already provided them earlier
https://www.overbuff.com/heroes?mode=competitive
https://www.overbuff.com/blog/2017-03-31-overwatch-hero-tier-list-and-meta-report-something-strange-is-afoot-in-korea


Even Jeff Kaplan has mentioned that data from Overbuff does not reflect the entire population, but only a select sample, and thus, extremely skewed. If Overbuff was right in all fronts, I would see Lucios up the @ss in every single match to a point that I would be tired of his little tunes.
04/10/2017 11:48 AMPosted by NotMcCree
Thank you for proving that McCree has some of the of the lowest win rates and popularity ratings.

His popularity is average. His pick rate is average. Neither of them are "some of the lowest."

As for win rate? Everyone knows that it's a meaningless statistic with the way Overwatch tracks it.
04/10/2017 11:49 AMPosted by Raisins
Even Jeff Kaplan has mentioned that data from Overbuff does not reflect the entire population, but only a select sample, and thus, extremely skewed. If Overbuff was right in all fronts, I would see Lucios up the @ss in every single match to a point that I would be tired of his little tunes.

The data from tournaments is not a select sample; it is the entire population of tournaments.
Shouldn't it be #FixOurCowboy???
04/10/2017 11:50 AMPosted by emtwo
04/10/2017 11:48 AMPosted by NotMcCree
Thank you for proving that McCree has some of the of the lowest win rates and popularity ratings.

His popularity is average. His pick rate is average. Neither of them are "some of the lowest."

As for win rate? Everyone knows that it's a meaningless statistic with the way Overwatch tracks it.
04/10/2017 11:49 AMPosted by Raisins
Even Jeff Kaplan has mentioned that data from Overbuff does not reflect the entire population, but only a select sample, and thus, extremely skewed. If Overbuff was right in all fronts, I would see Lucios up the @ss in every single match to a point that I would be tired of his little tunes.

The data from tournaments is not a select sample; it is the entire population of tournaments.


my god you cant be this stupid right? You are just trolling right? Please tell me your trolling. I feel bad for you now.......

Excellent thread btw. Keep up the good work OP!
I'm starting to think that Emtwo is just trying really hard at justifying whatever his point is...
Which sounds a lot like:
"NotMcCree, I'm right with my anecdotal and Overbuff links, and you are wrong, even though you have 4 topics with more than 200 replies providing information about what is wrong with McCree, with more than 100 players supporting the claims with screenshots, videos, developer quotes and yes, even Overbuff links saying "McCree is no longer viable" "

I was not going to judge you for anything else, but man, a main Hanzo and a Genji being your second pick? Let me EL-Oh-EL.
When you play a hero that actually requires more than just closing your eyes and shoot into an empty space to get a kill or be the annoying fly in a BBQ, then let's talk.
04/10/2017 11:57 AMPosted by Raisins
When you play a hero that actually requires more than just closing your eyes and shoot into an empty space to get a kill or be the annoying fly in a BBQ, then let's talk.

Whoever thinks that of hanzo, can't be taken seriously.
- Sincerely, from a McCree/Hanzo main.

That guy is stupid, but why would you climb down to his level? don't be like him.
04/10/2017 11:45 AMPosted by emtwo
04/10/2017 11:43 AMPosted by RagedShadow
>Claims to provide sources.
>Doesn't provide any.

>Already provided them earlier
https://www.overbuff.com/heroes?mode=competitive
https://www.overbuff.com/blog/2017-03-31-overwatch-hero-tier-list-and-meta-report-something-strange-is-afoot-in-korea

>Doesn't post stats in previous comments.
>Acts like he does and links them for the first time in response.

Also, these statistics show that McCree is in a worse state than other heroes. Just because he is picked more often doesn't mean he is good. Pick rates only determine viability to an extent.
Those statistics show that McCree has the lowest E:D ratio out of all OffenseC Defense, and Tank (except Reignhardt) heroes. Not to mention a lower than average win ratio. Clearly he has an issue and even his stats seem to articulate.

Statistics are a great tool if you know how to read and understand them. Unfortunately for you, you do not.

04/10/2017 11:48 AMPosted by emtwo
04/10/2017 11:46 AMPosted by Raisins
I really want to see this guy's "all data and statistics that disagree" with all the data and statistics right here, provided by NotMcCree.

Which part of the OP's opinions is supposed to be statistical? I've looked, and I can't find it.

You should probably visit an optometrist because the links are clearly there.

04/10/2017 11:50 AMPosted by emtwo
04/10/2017 11:48 AMPosted by NotMcCree
Thank you for proving that McCree has some of the of the lowest win rates and popularity ratings.

His popularity is average. His pick rate is average. Neither of them are "some of the lowest."

As for win rate? Everyone knows that it's a meaningless statistic with the way Overwatch tracks it.
04/10/2017 11:49 AMPosted by Raisins
Even Jeff Kaplan has mentioned that data from Overbuff does not reflect the entire population, but only a select sample, and thus, extremely skewed. If Overbuff was right in all fronts, I would see Lucios up the @ss in every single match to a point that I would be tired of his little tunes.

The data from tournaments is not a select sample; it is the entire population of tournaments.

Please learn how to interpret statistics before you mouth of idiocies like the above.
When I play McCree tonight, I'm going to light up what's left of my half smoked Blackstone cigar in honor of all McCree supporters that support these threads. Thank you all. Truly.
04/10/2017 11:54 AMPosted by Fate
Shouldn't it be #FixOurCowboy???

no. because it discounts the hard work that notmccree has put from the start with getting into top 500 and tracking his stats for a year for. the tag was made to thank her efforts. i say the effort deserves recognition, in this case she doesnt need to share the spotlight because she EARNED it. #fixhercowboy
You still have my support on this, NotMcCree, maybe eventually something happens.
04/10/2017 12:00 PMPosted by iSinner
04/10/2017 11:57 AMPosted by Raisins
When you play a hero that actually requires more than just closing your eyes and shoot into an empty space to get a kill or be the annoying fly in a BBQ, then let's talk.

Whoever thinks that of hanzo, can't be taken seriously.
- Sincerely, from a McCree/Hanzo main.

That guy is stupid, but why would you climb down to his level? don't be like him.


Sorry about that dude, but that's what I feel about Hanzo. Even I surprise myself when I get him on Mystery Heroes and I just get kills that even I feel I am not going to get. I am sure it does take skill to master it, but it is a fact that his aimbox is the size of a barn. Also, as McCree main, it's kind of confusing for me to not find a certain disdain for Hanzo in you, since we are the perfect targets for it due to our "Barn sized" hitbox.

But let's not derail this, this is NotMcCree's serious attempt at doing some good for MC, so I don't want to ruin it with internal bickering about Hanzo.
<span class="truncated">...</span>
Whoever thinks that of hanzo, can't be taken seriously.
- Sincerely, from a McCree/Hanzo main.

That guy is stupid, but why would you climb down to his level? don't be like him.


Sorry about that dude, but that's what I feel about Hanzo. Even I surprise myself when I get him on Mystery Heroes and I just get kills that even I feel I am not going to get. I am sure it does take skill to master it, but it is a fact that his aimbox is the size of a barn. Also, as McCree main, it's kind of confusing for me to not find a certain disdain for Hanzo in you, since we are the perfect targets for it due to our "Barn sized" hitbox.

Let us just support one another please. We may not enjoy certain heroes; that is fair - but there is no need to attack other heroes. Remember; there are people who feel for Hanzo, etc. as we feel for McCree. :)

04/10/2017 12:01 PMPosted by DVa
You still have my support on this, NotMcCree, maybe eventually something happens.

Thank you my friend! You have my support as well!

04/10/2017 12:01 PMPosted by Fleurmond
no. because it discounts the hard work that notmccree has put from the start with getting into top 500 and tracking his stats for a year for. the tag was made to thank her efforts. i say the effort deserves recognition, in this case she doesnt need to share the spotlight because she EARNED it. #fixhercowboy

Fleur, you're one of my oldest friends here. Thank you so much for the support. I couldn't have made it without everyone else and iSinner.
why did they decide a medium range insta kill to be 6 seconds long and a hug range barely insta kill to be 10 seconds long
even though the hog hook is now 8 its still insane
like go and 1v1 with a genji and tracer
with that it takes a long time if both are playing really well but when its a roadhog all he has to do is wait for the tracer to run out of blinks or rewind or reflect if its genji and just hook them
and its not very hard compared to other insta kills in the game
even if its a !@#$ roadhog that cant aim hooks
all it takes to win a duel vs a squishy is just a lucky meatshot with the shotgun

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