Welcome to Pharahwatch

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Great explanation. Add Lucio to the list. I'm main Pharah but when I need to play healer in the team and opponent team has a Pharah, I flank her with my Lucio. Lucio has low dmg but long distance weapon, so he can easily shoot Pharah or knock back her when needed. Self healing and agile movement will help him to flank Pharah for long times. Yesterday I "disabled" an opponent Pharah like that. It's a working recipe. If Pharah has a Mercy, then take a S76 with you, heal yourself and him while both are shooting PharMercy.

I see this thread was created by a WidowMaker main with 86 hours and %32 Winrate this season. This is just absurd. I still don't understand why people don't self-criticize their skills, instead blame heros that "they" can't handle.

<span class="truncated">...</span>

And that just about sums it up.

It's a "TEAM EFFORT" to down one hero.

Garbage balance.

So you expect one hero to beat 2 heroes? Sorry but only top tier Soldiers and McCrees can solo Deal with a Phar-Mercy.
Phar-Mercy takes the Main healer slot for the enemy team, you rarely see Mercy Ana ran together. Only the Pharah is getting the mercy most of the time. Mercy won't build rez that quickly.
As a Pharah player(not main but she is one of my better heroes), the easiest counter to Pharah is D.Va. D.Va can put DM(defense matrix) up and down every second to eat rockets, so Pharah deals no damage.

This is a great comp to take out Phar-Mercy:
Soldier: 76- Strong DPS all the time.
Zenyatta- Put discord on the Pharah/Mercy, and heal the soldier.
D.Va- Block Pharahs damage (AND DON'T CHASE PHARAH AS D.Va, you cant kill pharah as D.Va, your just to stop her damage)
Reinhardt/Orisa- Orisa's right click put's pharah in a predictable position, but Dont expect to kill her as Orisa. Reinhardt is just a solid tank that you can rely on.
Ana/Mercy- Need a main healer
any Damage- Just have the 6th guy pick what he's good at. Unless the Pharah is still beating you, then he can go McCree.

You don't need to kill Pharah, just push her back.
The 2nd comment on that article sums it up pretty well. She forces you to look up where all other heroes are grounded.
05/24/2017 10:01 PMPosted by Howlwyn
So you expect one hero to beat 2 heroes? Sorry but only top tier Soldiers and McCrees can solo Deal with a Phar-Mercy.


As already stated previously in this thread I conceded the fact that one hero not being able to deal with two is fine. HOWEVER: The problem persists that there are ONLY 4 heroes in the game that can even shoot Pharah down. So if you NEED two picks to deal with Pharah that means your teams dps MUST have a comp consisting of at least 1:

Widow
S76
Mcree

and/or an Ana as a healer.

Which is STUPID! No other hero in the entire game forces people to pick one or two of only a few heroes in order to counter them. Which is the entire point of this thread.

There is almost no diversity in DPS picks in the game BECAUSE of Pharah. If your team has a Junkrat and Reaper for DPS, you will get slaughtered by Pharah. Even IF you have a Dva blocking her rockets once in a while.

How can any of you deny this? In 222 games Pharah was picked 243 times! NO OTHER HERO EVEN COMES CLOSE TO THIS! I'm in the 2800-3200 range with all these screenshots. It's not like I'm in bronze league where people can't shoot.

222 games, Pharah picked 243 times....... Houston we have a problem!

Tracer wasn't picked that much, Sombra? Nope. Reaper? Nope. Junkrat? Nuh uh. Mei? Nope. Bastion? Torb? ...... where is all the diversity?

It's GONE!
05/04/2017 03:48 PMPosted by Thatguy
Pharah has to be the most toxic hero ever invented in a FPS.

As stated in previous threads she counters almost every hero in the game, and only 4 heroes out of 24 can even shoot her down with any decent accuracy.

With the recent nerfing of Ana (which i think is good btw) Pharah has gone on a rampage cause Ana sadly was one of the best ways to put Pharah in check. Ana could land 3 quick shots on Pharah faster than most any Widow could land a headshot.

So what we end up with now is a game that is quite literally filled with Phara's. It's so damn annoying to play every single game against a Pharah. Almost EVERY SINGLE GAME! But hey you know what? Maybe I'm just exaggerating. Maybe it's all in my head and I just think there's too many Phara's. So I decided to take a screenshot of my next 100 games just to see what all the comps are like. (These were taken a month ago, it's gotten even worse recently)

HERE YA GO BLIZZARD! This is your AWESOME game balance at work!

http://imgur.com/gallery/8djv1

For those of you that didn't look through all 100 pics that's 100 games, Pharah was picked in 98 of them (98% of the time for those that can't do simple math), she was picked a total of 125 times in 100 games and in 83 of those games she was accompanied by a Mercy (or 83%) following her around healing her making her nearly impossible to kill with a soldier or Widow.

This is the most cancerous toxic garbage I think I've ever seen. Where's all the Junkrats? Where's all the Tracers? Where's all the Mei's? Sombras? Reapers?

NOWHERE!

Know why? Cause Pharah is easier to play, does as much dmg as Junkrat, can only be shot down by 4 heroes in the game, can knock people off ledges, and has one of the most devastating ults in the game. Her toolkit is absolutely absurd compared to most any of the other dps/defense heroes.

For many of these players Pharah is a crutch. They literally can't even do anything else. I saw their win rates with all their other heroes and they are usually in the 30-40% win rate range. I mean just look at these play times.

http://imgur.com/gallery/FCXbb

I've never seen another hero so overplayed by anyone else except maybe a couple Hanzo players (Which are usually terrible anyways) or some Dva's.

You see all Pharah has to do is kill that ONE guy on the enemy team that can actually shot her down, which is pretty easy to do when you just fly around a building then 2 shot Widow or Soldier real fast. Then she can TEE OFF on the rest of the team with free reign and no worries of being shot at.

You see I CAN take a Pharah out. But therein lies the problem. That's all I end up doing all game. I play "HUNT THE PHARAH" all game long. I can't do anything else. It's not fun and it needs to get nerfed sometime sooner rather than later.

I'm not saying Pharah wins too much. I'm not saying Pharah can't get countered. I am saying Pharah can only get countered by way too few heroes in the game currently and 100% it's toxic as hell to play against.

I'll bet you if Pharah wasn't in the game we'd see a LOT less play from McCree and S76 as she seems to be the only reason they are even in the game. We'd probably see more play from Junkrat and Reapers, Tracers, and an assortment of other heroes who are all sick of having 120 dmg rockets shot into their faces all game.

Edit:

Another 122 games for you (2 I forgot to screenshot, but did not have Pharah):

http://imgur.com/gallery/J1zXf

That's 122 games. Pharah was picked in 118 of them (97%), she was accompanied by a mercy in 87 of those games (71%) and was picked a total of 140 times in 122 games.

I really don't care what your 3rd party sites are showing you guys. These are real life numbers. These games are all in the 2600-3100 range.


Just be happy you play on pc. Pharah with mercy on consoles is a demigod. My take from this has just been to switch and start playing her. My aim is very poor but having played torb (nerfed console version) and symettra has helped me develop great target priortization and intangible skills. I've climbed to low diamond and hope to make it masters. Yes pharah is that op. Furthermore, console top 500 is literted with pharahs whereas pc does not have as many. Just stop fighting and pick pharah too. One of us one of us one of us...
The problem with Pharah: the skill/effort to counter her is far greater than the skill/effort it takes to use her.
05/25/2017 07:23 AMPosted by Thatguy
05/24/2017 10:01 PMPosted by Howlwyn
So you expect one hero to beat 2 heroes? Sorry but only top tier Soldiers and McCrees can solo Deal with a Phar-Mercy.


As already stated previously in this thread I conceded the fact that one hero not being able to deal with two is fine. HOWEVER: The problem persists that there are ONLY 4 heroes in the game that can even shoot Pharah down. So if you NEED two picks to deal with Pharah that means your teams dps MUST have a comp consisting of at least 1:

Widow
S76
Mcree

and/or an Ana as a healer.

Which is STUPID! No other hero in the entire game forces people to pick one or two of only a few heroes in order to counter them. Which is the entire point of this thread.

There is almost no diversity in DPS picks in the game BECAUSE of Pharah. If your team has a Junkrat and Reaper for DPS, you will get slaughtered by Pharah. Even IF you have a Dva blocking her rockets once in a while.

How can any of you deny this? In 222 games Pharah was picked 243 times! NO OTHER HERO EVEN COMES CLOSE TO THIS! I'm in the 2800-3200 range with all these screenshots. It's not like I'm in bronze league where people can't shoot.

222 games, Pharah picked 243 times....... Houston we have a problem!

Tracer wasn't picked that much, Sombra? Nope. Reaper? Nope. Junkrat? Nuh uh. Mei? Nope. Bastion? Torb? ...... where is all the diversity?

It's GONE!


I agree with this completely. However, I will point out the later issue with pharah is that people try to counter incorrectly when I play her. A good pharah will not get fragged and will set up advantageous fights; however her dps and kill potential is limited due to this. While there may be only a few heroes that interact with her (which I agree is crap) you can beat her just by pushing her out of the battle of outsistaining her damage while winning the ground fight if the team is running a pharmacy you should do the best you can to win the 4v6 while avoiding the pharmacy.

Trying to helpful, but I understand that the Amount of coordination asked for above and the unorthodox approach is what in part makes pharah op. good pharah play in partniz good because often it makes the enemy team make poor and difficult decisions. Again inhope she gets nerfed heavily on consoles but will play her until then. I wanna play more torb, sum, and junkrat but pharah makes that near impossible currently.
Everyone who is posting in this to "git gud", learn to aim, etc... You are missing the point of the post.

It's not about losing the game because of a Pharmacy or not being able to shoot her down. It's about how it is totally dictating the way the game is played. He is showing that almost 100% of the time this is what he is encountering which means almost 100% of the time you have to counter pick for this because he is right that there are only a few heros to consistently and reliably deal with a Pharmacy.

I personally would love to play more Tracer, but at my elo there often isn't someone who can reliably run a hitscan and deal with a Pharah or simply someone who just doesn't play a hitscan. So if you look at my profile, I have around 90 hours on Soldier. I am sick of playing Soldier!
05/25/2017 07:41 AMPosted by aerobahn
The problem with Pharah: the skill/effort to counter her is far greater than the skill/effort it takes to use her.


This sorta, but I think it's more than this. Further complicated by the fact that so few heroes actually can even interact with her. There are heroes with good/bad matchups, but while reaper may be at an advantageous spot ba Winston at least the Winston feels like he can makes plays in the encounter. I think tracer is as op or more op than pharah (which is one reason why mecree needs buffed) all these characters you can at least interact with. While pharah may only have fair/good advanatage over some heroes it feels intuitively worse because you can't do anything to feel as if you have control over the situation a lot of times.
Pharah is indeed a very strong and popular meta hero. No one will deny that. But let's not exaggerate shall we? Look at the actual statistics: https://www.overbuff.com/heroes

Pharah is #8 overall picked hero in competitive PC. S76 is picked 80% more often than her so we should call it "Soldierwatch". Or "Mercywatch" and "Reinhardtwatch" as they are are even more popular. You cannot justify such a wide gap in pickrate by the popular myth that "Soldier counters Pharah". Widowmaker is a much stronger counter but she rarely sees play (which is sad really, but a topic for another discussion). Genji is #2 Offense hero at higher tier and his counters are picked much rarer than him.

If we only filter for Offense we can see that #2 and #3 overall Offense picks together are about the same as Soldier. Filtering by rank we will see the following: In Diamond Pharah falls to #3 Offense hero, in Masters to #4 and in to GM #5 only above Sombra and Reaper. At the same time Soldier consistently remains #1 Offense hero across all tiers Bronze to GM.

Now check the last available PC Meta Report and we see the very same picture with detailed charts:
http://www.omnicmeta.com/2017/05/pc-hero-meta-report-s4w1011.html

Lastly, look over the latest hero Tier list:
https://www.overbuff.com/blog/2017-05-25-overwatch-hero-tier-list-and-meta-report-anniversary-time-capsule

The overall trend is the higher skill goes, the less effective Pharah becomes. Any significant nerfs to Pharah will make her completely useless in higher skill tiers (where she is not that good already) and make Soldier even more popular. Both of which would not be healthy for the game.

Edit: typos.
05/25/2017 08:25 AMPosted by Hartwig
Pharah is indeed a very strong and popular meta hero. No one will deny that. But let's not exaggerate shall we? Look at the actual statistics: https://www.overbuff.com/heroes

Pharah is #8 overall picked hero in competitive PC. S76 is picked 80% more often than her so we should call it "Soldierwatch". Or "Mercywatch" and "Reinhardtwatch" as they are are even more popular. You cannot justify such a wide gap in pickrate by the popular myth that "Soldier counters Pharah". Widowmaker is a much stronger counter but she rarely sees play (which is sad really, but a topic for another discussion). Genji is #2 Offense hero at higher tier and his counters are picked much rarer than him.

If we only filter for Offense we can see that #2 and #3 overall Offense picks together are about the same as Soldier. Filtering by rank we will see the following: In Diamond Pharah falls to #3 Offense hero, in Masters to #4 and in to GM #5 only above Sombra and Reaper. At the same time Soldier consistently remains #1 Offense hero across all tiers Bronze to GM.

Now check the last available PC Meta Report and we see the very same picture with detailed charts:
http://www.omnicmeta.com/2017/05/pc-hero-meta-report-s4w1011.html

Lastly, look over the latest hero Tier list:
https://www.overbuff.com/blog/2017-05-25-overwatch-hero-tier-list-and-meta-report-anniversary-time-capsule

The overall trend is the higher skill goes, the less effective Pharah becomes. Any significant nerfs to Pharah will make her completely useless in higher skill tiers (when she is not that good already) and make Soldier even more popular. Both of which would not be healthy for the game.


The problem is this doesn't hold true for consoles were due to many factors but primarily aiming she she is absurdly op and way over represented along with tracer in the top 500.
05/25/2017 09:06 AMPosted by BT160530

The problem is this doesn't hold true for consoles were due to many factors but primarily aiming she she is absurdly op and way over represented along with tracer in the top 500.


This is definitely a problem. I firmly believe we need a separate balancing for PC and consoles, otherwise such problems would continue to arise again and again.
05/25/2017 07:53 AMPosted by BottaBing
Everyone who is posting in this to "git gud", learn to aim, etc... You are missing the point of the post.

It's not about losing the game because of a Pharmacy or not being able to shoot her down. It's about how it is totally dictating the way the game is played. He is showing that almost 100% of the time this is what he is encountering which means almost 100% of the time you have to counter pick for this because he is right that there are only a few heros to consistently and reliably deal with a Pharmacy.

I personally would love to play more Tracer, but at my elo there often isn't someone who can reliably run a hitscan and deal with a Pharah or simply someone who just doesn't play a hitscan. So if you look at my profile, I have around 90 hours on Soldier. I am sick of playing Soldier!


Glad someone is understanding the point of this and I hope Blizzard is listening!

You know what I also forgot to mention is the fact since Pharah can nearly indefinitely fly around she's almost all but immune to all ults too.

Reaper ult = wiff, Mei ult = wiff, Tracer ult = good luck with that. List goes on and on.

Pharah's flying should be seen the same as any other defensive ability like Zarya's shield which lasts a few seconds, then has a long cooldown or Sombra's invisibility which lasts a few seconds, goes away if attacking, then has a long cooldown.

Nobody should be able to use their defensive skill 90% or more of the time.
05/04/2017 03:48 PMPosted by Thatguy
Pharah has to be the most toxic hero ever invented in a FPS.

As stated in previous threads she counters almost every hero in the game, and only 4 heroes out of 24 can even shoot her down with any decent accuracy.

With the recent nerfing of Ana (which i think is good btw) Pharah has gone on a rampage cause Ana sadly was one of the best ways to put Pharah in check. Ana could land 3 quick shots on Pharah faster than most any Widow could land a headshot.

So what we end up with now is a game that is quite literally filled with Phara's. It's so damn annoying to play every single game against a Pharah. Almost EVERY SINGLE GAME! But hey you know what? Maybe I'm just exaggerating. Maybe it's all in my head and I just think there's too many Phara's. So I decided to take a screenshot of my next 100 games just to see what all the comps are like. (These were taken a month ago, it's gotten even worse recently)

HERE YA GO BLIZZARD! This is your AWESOME game balance at work!

http://imgur.com/gallery/8djv1

For those of you that didn't look through all 100 pics that's 100 games, Pharah was picked in 98 of them (98% of the time for those that can't do simple math), she was picked a total of 125 times in 100 games and in 83 of those games she was accompanied by a Mercy (or 83%) following her around healing her making her nearly impossible to kill with a soldier or Widow.

This is the most cancerous toxic garbage I think I've ever seen. Where's all the Junkrats? Where's all the Tracers? Where's all the Mei's? Sombras? Reapers?

NOWHERE!

Know why? Cause Pharah is easier to play, does as much dmg as Junkrat, can only be shot down by 4 heroes in the game, can knock people off ledges, and has one of the most devastating ults in the game. Her toolkit is absolutely absurd compared to most any of the other dps/defense heroes.

For many of these players Pharah is a crutch. They literally can't even do anything else. I saw their win rates with all their other heroes and they are usually in the 30-40% win rate range. I mean just look at these play times.

http://imgur.com/gallery/FCXbb

I've never seen another hero so overplayed by anyone else except maybe a couple Hanzo players (Which are usually terrible anyways) or some Dva's.

You see all Pharah has to do is kill that ONE guy on the enemy team that can actually shot her down, which is pretty easy to do when you just fly around a building then 2 shot Widow or Soldier real fast. Then she can TEE OFF on the rest of the team with free reign and no worries of being shot at.

You see I CAN take a Pharah out. But therein lies the problem. That's all I end up doing all game. I play "HUNT THE PHARAH" all game long. I can't do anything else. It's not fun and it needs to get nerfed sometime sooner rather than later.

I'm not saying Pharah wins too much. I'm not saying Pharah can't get countered. I am saying Pharah can only get countered by way too few heroes in the game currently and 100% it's toxic as hell to play against.

I'll bet you if Pharah wasn't in the game we'd see a LOT less play from McCree and S76 as she seems to be the only reason they are even in the game. We'd probably see more play from Junkrat and Reapers, Tracers, and an assortment of other heroes who are all sick of having 120 dmg rockets shot into their faces all game.

Edit:

Another 122 games for you (2 I forgot to screenshot, but did not have Pharah):

http://imgur.com/gallery/J1zXf

That's 122 games. Pharah was picked in 118 of them (97%), she was accompanied by a mercy in 87 of those games (71%) and was picked a total of 140 times in 122 games.

I really don't care what your 3rd party sites are showing you guys. These are real life numbers. These games are all in the 2600-3100 range.


I've been saying this since forever. The fix is to make her rocket jump not fly around at distances hardly anyone can counter. People wanna scream she would be just like tf2 soldier. Well yah why the !@#$ do you think they didn't make soldier able to fly in tr2? Op much? No %^-*. Blizzard trying to be different made a character incredibly unbalanced.
Each time I'm close to hitting diamond, I get trown against a very good far nobody is able to take down. There is always that good pharah who dominates the game unless you stack 5 people on her at all times. She has the highground everywhere ! She's in the sky , it's a HUGE advantage as you shoot from above and if someone focus you they have to look at the sky and turn in circles as her team destroys you
05/25/2017 09:20 AMPosted by Hartwig
05/25/2017 09:06 AMPosted by BT160530

The problem is this doesn't hold true for consoles were due to many factors but primarily aiming she she is absurdly op and way over represented along with tracer in the top 500.


This is definitely a problem. I firmly believe we need a separate balancing for PC and consoles, otherwise such problems would continue to arise again and again.


There is precedent already. Symmetra and Torbjorn turrets damage nerfs are obvious examples already implemented on console only. Not sure if any others?

But if Mercy can pocket Pharah, issue remains that she can still 2 shot any "counter" hero, unless her damage was as low as 76 per rocket (76*1.3=98.8).
I think one single change would make things more balanced. Just make it so that Mercy can only heal her if Pharah is not flying.

Admittedly, not sure how harmony orb should work though
05/04/2017 04:08 PMPosted by Deno
You shouldn't make such a thread! All the "git gud" players, with their less than 40% accuracy, will tell you to shoot her. I do love hearing it though. They can't land half of their shots, on targets close and in their face, yet they magically hit 100% of their shots on Pharah+Mercy...


Yes, cus I need to have perfect accuracy to suppress a pharmercy. I wouldn't call anyone a scrub, when you are getting bodied by a easily countered character.
I can't imagine you people playing Team Fortress 2 and being destroyed by a kritz krieg Soldier.
Yes, cus I need to have perfect accuracy to suppress a pharmercy. I wouldn't call anyone a scrub, when you are getting bodied by a easily countered character.


A good Pharah player is not "easily countered".

I note that you are bronze. I do not equate bronze with good Pharah play. Good Pharahs do not stay at bronze for long...

Anyway, a very good vid on the whole Pharah issue. Goes over the pros and cons of both sides and even concludes that Pharah is not OP, but that "something" needs to be done as she makes so many characters useless (Torb, Junk, Reaper) and forces some very inflexible team comps against her. One idea is to make her counters better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um06YvBaAQc
As a hanzo main, Phara is annoying when I'm the only one fighting her.

I have a friend who mains Zen and together we destroy Pharas constantly. (2700-3300) range.

As stated previously, once you get mid diamond, Phara isn't an issue
05/27/2017 07:29 PMPosted by Kaziganthi
As a hanzo main, Phara is annoying when I'm the only one fighting her.

I have a friend who mains Zen and together we destroy Pharas constantly. (2700-3300) range.

As stated previously, once you get mid diamond, Phara isn't an issue


Fair enough. I assume is a skill and coordination issue, much like Symmetra dominating at lower tiers (I've managed 1vs5 myself at silver with her) as teams lack the aim and coordination to deal with her "broken" auto hitting laser beam.

But Symmetra at least fights on ground level and isn't immune to over half the cast. There's an issue when 1 enemy hero hard counters over half the roster, but is soft countered (Or matched) by far fewer herself.
05/27/2017 07:29 PMPosted by Kaziganthi
As a hanzo main, Phara is annoying when I'm the only one fighting her.

I have a friend who mains Zen and together we destroy Pharas constantly. (2700-3300) range.

As stated previously, once you get mid diamond, Phara isn't an issue


She's still an issue because you HAVE to have a Pharah counter. I don't care what rank you're playing. Because Pharah is in the game the top players are always going to have Soldier, Mcree, Widow and/or Ana on their teams.

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