SR system changed? 80SR after 2 wins of support

Competitive Discussion
Played support. Lost 50 SR, only gained 14 SR when I won today. System is still broken as !@#$ and Blizzard don't give a %^-*. Sad when a company like them is being more like Nexon or some crap company.
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05/01/2017 09:33 PMPosted by Bristingr
Played support. Lost 50 SR, only gained 14 SR when I won today. System is still broken as !@#$ and Blizzard don't give a %^-*. Sad when a company like them is being more like Nexon or some crap company.


It based on how you perform. They measure whatever role you're playing against other players. If you lost that much that means you were performing below most gold players as support.

Sorry
My dps is only as good as my healing, healing i receive is only as good as i can dps, lol if this was reality then i be diamond masters already, both i am good at and no matter what if i go dps i have bad healer and if i go healer i have bad dps, does't matter what i pick, i will drop because bronze plebs playing in gold plat and maybe even diamond, heck i am sure plat plebs are playing in diamond to.
05/01/2017 10:12 PMPosted by Toba
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05/01/2017 09:33 PMPosted by Bristingr
Played support. Lost 50 SR, only gained 14 SR when I won today. System is still broken as !@#$ and Blizzard don't give a %^-*. Sad when a company like them is being more like Nexon or some crap company.


It based on how you perform. They measure whatever role you're playing against other players. If you lost that much that means you were performing below most gold players as support.

Sorry


You mean against the Grandmasters, right? I was unaware 25K healing, 30 kills, etc. as Lucio was "below gold standards". (Yes, I had a career day as him in one match)
05/01/2017 11:31 PMPosted by Bristingr
05/01/2017 10:12 PMPosted by Toba
I

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It based on how you perform. They measure whatever role you're playing against other players. If you lost that much that means you were performing below most gold players as support.

Sorry


You mean against the Grandmasters, right? I was unaware 25K healing, 30 kills, etc. as Lucio was "below gold standards". (Yes, I had a career day as him in one match)


If you want to see how you perform in your rank-bracket you should take a look at the app Oversumo.

This is only based on the stats (per life) they track there, but im quite sure these are the stats used by Blizzard aswell, among other things.
05/01/2017 11:31 PMPosted by Bristingr
05/01/2017 10:12 PMPosted by Toba
I

...

It based on how you perform. They measure whatever role you're playing against other players. If you lost that much that means you were performing below most gold players as support.

Sorry


You mean against the Grandmasters, right? I was unaware 25K healing, 30 kills, etc. as Lucio was "below gold standards". (Yes, I had a career day as him in one match)


maybe you had too many deaths? I noticed when I play Lucio the less deaths I have the more S. R. I get
Wow, someone actually plays support correctly for once thinks that the system has changed, when in reality high level players have been observing these SR gains since competitive began.
05/02/2017 06:55 AMPosted by shoe
Wow, someone actually plays support correctly for once thinks that the system has changed, when in reality high level players have been observing these SR gains since competitive began.

Carful shoe you might attract the cult that seems to follow you around down voting to hell
I've been playing a lot of Mercy in comp because the season is almost over and I don't really care about my SR anymore..

I went 3-1-3 last night and came out with 15 *more* SR than what I have. I feel really good about this??
05/02/2017 07:43 AMPosted by zealot227
05/02/2017 06:55 AMPosted by shoe
Wow, someone actually plays support correctly for once thinks that the system has changed, when in reality high level players have been observing these SR gains since competitive began.

Carful shoe you might attract the cult that seems to follow you around down voting to hell

Don't matter to me they'll still have their neckbeards.
Good to see some people have incredible gains as support now, but don't forget what we are fighting for.

We want equal gains for all classes not based on (perceived) personal performance.

Let's not get carried away by (maybe) the matchmaking tweaking the numbers a little. Even if this problem is resolved there will be more since the personal performance metrics for OW are inherently flawed. Next time it might be the Tanks that get shafted or the Sombra mains or the offensive teleporter. Equal gains for all classes seems to be the most reasonable way to go.
Im 4-6 today, down 125 SR...

seems to be the patch last night messed things up..
Good to see some people have incredible gains as support now, but don't forget what we are fighting for..


These gains have been observed on supports at the high level since season 2.

We want equal gains for all classes not based on (perceived) personal performance. .


They are. Also, what's wrong with gains based on performance? It's almost as if you want the same amount of points for doing poorly on a win.

Let's not get carried away by (maybe) the matchmaking tweaking the numbers a little. Even if this problem is resolved there will be more since the personal performance metrics for OW are inherently flawed. .


How so?

Next time it might be the Tanks that get shafted.


Haven't been true since early S1.

or the Sombra mains .


Evidence? I can count the amount of GM+ Sombra mains on one hand.

or the offensive teleporter..


What does that have to do with anything?

Equal gains for all classes seems to be the most reasonable way to go..


They are equal. You not knowing how to correctly play your class is what has to do with your inability to gain points, not the system
05/02/2017 08:06 AMPosted by shoe
They are equal. You not knowing how to correctly play your class is what has to do with your inability to gain points, not the system


In my point of view winning the game is correctly playing your class. If the SR system calculates your winnings based on playstyle/performance you do not get a fair chance to find out what is wrong.

It is more reasonable to find out what works and what doesn't from losing games. You achieve this by playing versus better and better opponents, till they exploit your flaws. At that point you are on the right level (and need to improve).

If the SR system (based on stats) perceives your playstyle as wrong and gives you less for win and more for loss how are you supposed to learn. At this point you have to get external sources to see what you are doing wrong, mind you what determines performance isn't even publicly disclosed. I find this strange, you should learn from playing the game against your opponent with your team.

Another point is that performance is too hard to measure correctly. What if you are soldier and have ult. A good play is too ease up on the firepower a bit to let your tracer farm hers by doing more damage (without losing the fight). Personal performance is not in accordance with this. For supports their contribution is especially hard to measure, since you have to make lots of situational decisions.

The con of getting rid of this system is mainly that some players on an off day get a little more SR for bad play. I think the frequency of this happening (provided good matchmaking) does not make a must for the current system to remain. If you are really bad with a hero eventually your winrate will get you to the right place. Also winning is a team effort, you do not give the goal keeper a smaller trophy because he did not need to do anything.

This is why I think that equal gains not based on performance is the fairest system.

All the examples I gave are, things that might happen in future updates. Just to show that it isn't perse a support issue, but a broader more principal one. I felt the need to illustrate to ppl just because they aren't affected now that the system isn't a problem (something something double negative but you'll get what I mean).
The fact that at some point Tanks also have been effective is good to know, and shows that other player/playstyles could be affected. With such a finicky performance system it is easy to mess stuff up and when this happens we usually only find out about this when ppl are already really upset.

Conclusion: I think that that the pros of not factoring in performance outweigh the cons and that therefore equal gains not based on performance is favoured.
You may have forgotten one con to equal SR gains and not based on performance at all. The con being... throwers and leavers will have full influence of their teammates SR, likewise in the opposite direction boosters will have an easier time boosting a player who is by no means at the level they ended up being boosted to.
05/01/2017 09:33 PMPosted by Bristingr
Played support. Lost 50 SR, only gained 14 SR when I won today. System is still broken as !@#$ and Blizzard don't give a %^-*. Sad when a company like them is being more like Nexon or some crap company.


Honestly? They are way worse than Nexon.
05/02/2017 09:49 AMPosted by IXEL
You may have forgotten one con to equal SR gains and not based on performance at all. The con being... throwers and leavers will have full influence of their teammates SR, likewise in the opposite direction boosters will have an easier time boosting a player who is by no means at the level they ended up being boosted to.


Those are indeed valid cons, I forgot about. In regard to leavers I think an exception could be made, taking some of the SR burden from the rest of the team (and punishing the leaver). If you get that freedom it becomes a different issue how to exactly deal with them.

In regard to the boosters, yes they will have an easier time. There are however other ways to deal with them. Taking into account the Team SR difference (and setting boundaries to gains), or placing them against the median team SR instead of mean (meaning more difficult opponents so harder to carry). It is an artefact of a team based game, grouping up might give you a niche you otherwise wouldn't have. I still think this is not such an immediate issue that we have to take on all the disadvantage off a performance based system.

Valid points thanks for contributing them.
i think maybe they adjust win both wins and losses by the sounds of it. I will test out tonight for sure!

my last round of testing 50 straight games with a 68% win rate avg gain was 25 sr and avg loss was 23 sr

i gained about 450sr after 50 games

I will do something similar to try and replicate and see whats the results :)
I almost wonder if the old win/loss streak system was put back in place by accident or something. Over the weekend, after losing the 5th game in a streak, I lost 41. Followed by -43 and -45. This is the only losing streak I have had though, so obviously need more data. Before this (from when streaks were changed), the range seemed confined to -30/+30. I also have a few games above 30 in the last few days, one on a 3rd win and one on a 4th win, but those shouldn't be streaks...

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