To those who say pharah is op

General Discussion
Where is your proof? I have seen nothing but people saying how "op" she is with no proof to back it up.. Only thing I have seen to support this arugment is that she is hard to hit (god forbid you have to aim right ?), "75%" of the roster cant even hit her (exaggerated numbers with no proof), There is no counter play to her, and then people just use their feelings as support.

Characters on the roster that can suppress her:
Mei
Zen
Sombra (yes believe it or not she can indeed counter pharah with her hack.. try using her sometime)
Zarya (at full beam)
torb
Bastion
Mcree
Soldier
Widow
Hanzo
Dva
Hog (within 20m, and if the pharah is good, they wont be staying back and "sniping")
Osira (not a strong to suppress but can distract her and hold her at bay)

To those who think a a counter means a gaurentee kill.. You clearly have a lot to learn about this game. 13 characters can counter/suppress her. Granted Mcree and torb (torb on console at least) needs buffed. Lets not forget Pharah has the largest hit box of all the dps heros, is the most valunerable while in flight, and dispite what people say, she does actually have to touch the ground quite often making her a sitting duck.

And if you continue to use Pharamercy as a counter argument.. its a poor one. Mercy isnt exclusive to just pharah, any hero can have a pocket mercy.. You cant nerf synergy and pharamercy isnt hard to counter. To be honest, it isnt as common to see it as everyone makes it to be that its every game.

If you nerf her damage, then her rate of fire would have to be increased as her rockets travel slow

Nerf her flying, then she will be back to were she was before, F tier.

My advice? Stop maining and trying character switching.. Saying "shes the only characters to force people to switch" is the most idiotic arugment I have seen as this game is based on CHARACTER SWITCHING.
counters 90% of the cast
gets countered by 0% of the cast
04/19/2017 11:25 AMPosted by TinyTauren
Where is your proof? I have seen nothing but people saying how "op" she is with no proof to back it up.. Only thing I have seen to support this arugment is that she is hard to hit (god forbid you have to aim right ?), "75%" of the roster cant even hit her (exaggerated numbers with no proof), There is no counter play to her, and then people just use their feelings as support.

Characters on the roster that can suppress her:
Mei
Zen
Sombra (yes believe it or not she can indeed counter pharah with her hack.. try using her sometime)
Zarya (at full beam)
torb
Bastion
Mcree
Soldier
Widow
Hanzo
Dva
Hog (within 20m, and if the pharah is good, they wont be staying back and "sniping")
Osira (not a strong to suppress but can distract her and hold her at bay)

To those who think a a counter means a gaurentee kill.. You clearly have a lot to learn about this game. 13 characters can counter/suppress her. Granted Mcree and torb (torb on console at least) needs buffed. Lets not forget Pharah has the largest hit box of all the dps heros, is the most valunerable while in flight, and dispite what people say, she does actually have to touch the ground quite often making her a sitting duck.

And if you continue to use Pharamercy as a counter argument.. its a poor one. Mercy isnt exclusive to just pharah, any hero can have a pocket mercy.. You cant nerf synergy and pharamercy isnt hard to counter. To be honest, it isnt as common to see it as everyone makes it to be that its every game.

If you nerf her damage, then her rate of fire would have to be increased as her rockets travel slow

Nerf her flying, then she will be back to were she was before, F tier.

My advice? Stop maining and trying character switching.. Saying "shes the only characters to force people to switch" is the most idiotic arugment I have seen as this game is based on CHARACTER SWITCHING.


you wanna check a post that might gonna get oblivion at reddit? check this out:

04/19/2017 11:43 AMPosted by Genji
counters 90% of the cast
gets countered by 0% of the cast


e.g: this fool
04/19/2017 11:43 AMPosted by Genji
counters 90% of the cast
gets countered by 0% of the cast


Exactly the opposite.

Countered by the 90% of the cast.
Counters 10% of the cast.

Seriously , except some Supports , Reinhardt , Mei , and maybe Reaper , everyone can deal with Pharah effectively , if they want of course. Anything else just excuses.
Widow is probably the best counter, but it puts many at a disadvantage. Every one you named cant counter a long ranged decent pharah. Especially if they are bobbing inbetween structures with a mercy pocket. Did i mention the 2 direct hit kill?
Edit*
Of course the pharah main wants to save her from the nerfs
I thought in one of the new(ish) patches that they made it so she didn't have to touch the ground...?
Lmao, did you seriously just say Mei can suppress Pharah?
She's the only hero some heroes actually can't damage if the pharah is decent.
Play on console
04/19/2017 11:52 AMPosted by K128
Lmao, did you seriously just say Mei can suppress Pharah?


Goldilocks doesn't know Mei has a right click.
On the contrary, as a Pharah main I find that I have few counters outside of hitscan heroes and the occasional annoying D.Va. Even my counters often get forced into dueling situations if I don't just run away and ask my team to deal with them. Bastion and Torb are easy enough to handle and Mei is usually getting rockets rained on her before she even knows I'm there. The only thing that seems to stop me is when I have multiple of these characters looking out for me (zen + soldier/ soldier + mccree/ d.va + bastion etc.)
I think what separates the good Pharahs from the crappy ones is how we get around these issues and continue to provide our team with values while giving the enemy a reason to keep their heads up.
My ideal state for the game is not to have any character be directly countered by any other but to force them into a dueling situation.
04/19/2017 11:54 AMPosted by CamRa
She's the only hero some heroes actually can't damage if the pharah is decent.


You can say that for literally any DPS flanker.

Look at pro tracers and genjis. So of them can literally be untouchable if they know how to blink/deflect manage.
dude pharah is fine.

pharah/mercy, OP OP OP!

do i even need proof for this?
"Hanzo is great at countering Pharah"

I straight-up giggled.

Sure, if she has no idea he's there, and she's flying low to the ground, and he's pretty good, and gets lucky with the scatter arrow, it CAN happen, but otherwise he missed once, she turns around and shoots him twice, and then he's dead.
04/19/2017 11:25 AMPosted by TinyTauren
Where is your proof? I have seen nothing but people saying how "op" she is with no proof to back it up.. Only thing I have seen to support this arugment is that she is hard to hit (god forbid you have to aim right ?), "75%" of the roster cant even hit her (exaggerated numbers with no proof), There is no counter play to her, and then people just use their feelings as support.

Characters on the roster that can suppress her:
Mei
Zen
Sombra (yes believe it or not she can indeed counter pharah with her hack.. try using her sometime)
Zarya (at full beam)
torb
Bastion
Mcree
Soldier
Widow
Hanzo
Dva
Hog (within 20m, and if the pharah is good, they wont be staying back and "sniping")
Osira (not a strong to suppress but can distract her and hold her at bay)

To those who think a a counter means a gaurentee kill.. You clearly have a lot to learn about this game. 13 characters can counter/suppress her. Granted Mcree and torb (torb on console at least) needs buffed. Lets not forget Pharah has the largest hit box of all the dps heros, is the most valunerable while in flight, and dispite what people say, she does actually have to touch the ground quite often making her a sitting duck.

And if you continue to use Pharamercy as a counter argument.. its a poor one. Mercy isnt exclusive to just pharah, any hero can have a pocket mercy.. You cant nerf synergy and pharamercy isnt hard to counter. To be honest, it isnt as common to see it as everyone makes it to be that its every game.

If you nerf her damage, then her rate of fire would have to be increased as her rockets travel slow

Nerf her flying, then she will be back to were she was before, F tier.

My advice? Stop maining and trying character switching.. Saying "shes the only characters to force people to switch" is the most idiotic arugment I have seen as this game is based on CHARACTER SWITCHING.


Man you are really something aren't you.
04/19/2017 11:56 AMPosted by skabuda
04/19/2017 11:52 AMPosted by K128
Lmao, did you seriously just say Mei can suppress Pharah?


Goldilocks doesn't know Mei has a right click.


Get a dink with that right click on an actually decent Pharah x)

As for this list, I should elaborate on how a character can counter and be countered by her to bring clarity instead of salt.

Mei:
Walls and right-clicks are enough to save from Pharah damage and ults.

Issues with this is that the wall placement might not be beneficial for the entire team (1 ability used to only counter one hero is considered inefficient unless they are ulting) and the Mei would actually need good aim to hit that Pharah which isn't really uncommon but then again I used to main Mei. I digress.

I find this a fair counter not necessarily a good one.

Zenyatta:
This is more a counter to ult as Pharah can two shot Zeny. Though Transcendence near, negates Pharah's ult if done well.

Again a fair counter.

Sombra:
Hitscan always counters Pharah. Plus a well thrown translocator for hack IF pharah is in the air then Pharah has been pretty much removed by Sombra.

This is a great counter as Sombra can still be viable for your team and now the other team has one less dependable attacker.

Zarya:
I don't really know about this one. The barriers are good for initial damage blocked and it gives great charge and all. But if ulted Zarya would still die when the barrier goes down. And to get the kill on the Pharah she would have to come in range which isn't a smart Pharah if done.

I might be missing something as to why this is a counter but this is a poor counter in my eyes.

Torb:
If Torb is a counter for the tracking then whatever. But other than that, Pharah obliterates that little dwarfs turret.

Below fair counter but not necessarily a poor one.

Bastion:
GET OUT THE F****** SKY

McCree:
2-3 Shots and Pharah doesn't exist.

Good counter.

Soldier:
Hitscan. Heals.

Good Counter.

Widowmaker:
High Damage Hitscan.

Good Counter.

Hanzo:
To be fair this needs a good Hanzo to do... But that stated there are a lot of Hanzo mains in OW.

Average counter (depends on the Hanzo).

D.Va:
Let me just fly up here and scare you. Plus DM is strong against Pharah.

Good Counter.

Hog:
The explained example is fine with me.

Orisa:
This actually is a relatively good counter. They may be projectile fire but it is very rapid and hard to avoid being hit by. Plus, a good Orisa can reposition her in the open.

To add to this list I would also say:
Ana(Scoped) - Very Dangerous if not taken out immediately by Pharah. 3 shot hitscan.
Winston - Leap and shock.

Other than that, Pharah can be countered easily, though if the team doesn't prioritize her, Pharah can run a rampage from the sky and leave people yelling at each other for not taking her out.
04/19/2017 11:56 AMPosted by skabuda
04/19/2017 11:52 AMPosted by K128
Lmao, did you seriously just say Mei can suppress Pharah?


Goldilocks doesn't know Mei has a right click.


Mei's Rightclick is extremely difficult to hit Pharah with. Baby DVa, Zen, Mercy, Lucio etc, those projectiles even if they miss a lot can put enough flak in the air to make Pharah wary if she isn't being pocketed. Mei's icicle isn't going to do that before you get killed by Pharah unless you get a lucky headshot in there somewhere.

I'm not saying Mei should be able to suppress Pharah, because Pharah is clearly ment to be a Mei counter. I'm just saying I need some of what he's smoking if he thinks Mei can suppress Pharah given equal skill on both players. Bout the only useful thing Mei can do against Pharah is !@#$ block her Ult if the Pharah was stupid enough to fire it from low/a bad angle.
I see you applied the "Donald Trump" school of thought on argumentation. "Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong..."
Before I say any thing about this topic I would just like to say that Pharah on console and on PC are way different. I will be talking from the console point of view. Pharah on console is probably one of the biggest problems when it comes to climbing form lower ranks (gold plat etc.) I'm not saying she plain right O but I do think she needs some kind of change. Lets say you are soldier so you can counter Pharah. Sometimes you focusing her means doom, why because flankers can come around and shred you if you have your full attention to Pharah. So a way to stop this is to stay with your team. But even there comes some problems. Most of the time if you stay with your team flankers don't come up and damage you ( though there are some exceptions). So now this is your time to focus the Pharah right, WRONG. If you stick as a team and steamroll your enemy's than that is the time to focus the Pharah, but if the enemy team is smart than they will start to group up. What does this mean, well more team fights. And that's were the problem starts. I team fights as DPS you can focus the enemy team of the Pharah. focusing the enemy team means that the Pharah will eat you up. But focus on her and you put your team at a 5v5 and a half. This might sound good but you and the Pharah are having a 1v1 and who ever wins that can change the team fight. Killing the Pharah means your team will probably win. having the extra damage will be helpful. Unless the other team plays there cards right. but that doesn't have to do with Pharah, that's just up to skill. Now what if the Pharah wins the 1v1. then your team having no more real counter besides maybe Ana and a tank depending on what your team picked. The enemy team will win because the Pharah an just poke and clean up any one. Not to say that adding a mercy to the Pharah can make her unstoppable. Now aiming and skill can completely change the way you look at this argument but lets just ignore that.

Pharah need some kid of change on console and I think I have the ides. What if they increased the rocket jump cooldown time by 2 seconds. I don't think that's the best way but there is a couple more. maybe reducing fuel capacity. And lastly my favorite, reducing the height of rocket jump. Just think they buffed Pharah's passive so it boosts her up more. So a great way to contradict this is by making her rocket jump not launch her up so high.

Well I hoped you can understand where console players are coming from when it comes to Pharah. I would love to hear peoples feedback. Thank you and goodbye.
04/19/2017 11:51 AMPosted by Dandelion
I thought in one of the new(ish) patches that they made it so she didn't have to touch the ground...?
You can *technically* fly forever with efficient use of her fuel and correctly timing her boost. But that's actually a pretty difficult thing to do when you are actualy trying to kill someone. Concentration shifts from perfect use of fuel to aiming and dodging attacks. A Pharah that is actually trying to get kills and not just spamming an area from the skybox (not a very effective tactic, despite what people say), will end up touching the ground pretty frequently.

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