The ''If Roadhog doesn't one-shot, he will suck'' People

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Highly Rated
Then it shows you that his design is bad and needs a rework. ''Bait the hook you idiot, lul'' Okay, proceeds to get one shot anyway by right click~ He is anti-fun and ruins the game.
Highly Rated
Here is Dehaka, a Hero in Heroes of the Storm. He is a Feral Zerg who is able to latch onto people with his tongue and stun them, able to drag them into his team or attack them himself.

https://youtu.be/1c5SJV7-Q9A?t=3m39s

Note how it says to 'grab squishy assassins, or healers, for your team to focus down.' and 'if you grab an enemy warrior (tank), be ready for the fight as Dehaka's low damage may not be enough to secure a kill.'

Also note how SHORT the range for Dehaka's 'drag' is. What you saw in the trailer is his maximum drag range. It doesn't say 'drag anyone you want because you'll kill them anyway', it literally warns you to be cautious of who you drag because they'll easily overwhelm you.

Guess what? Dehaka is a GREAT HERO. He is still used widely and can be competitive.
Highly Rated
04/30/2017 02:09 PMPosted by Luci
Note how it says to 'grab squishy assassins, or healers, for your team to focus down.' and 'if you grab an enemy warrior (tank), be ready for the fight as Dehaka's low damage may not be enough to secure a kill.'
On a similar note, many people here likely played League of Legends in the past and know about Blitzcrank and Thresh.

For those who never played LoL, these two characters are supports with hook abilities. Blitzcrank literally has Roadhog's hook, whereas Thresh merely stuns them and yanks them a bit towards him upon landing the skillshot.

Neither of them can oneshot the hooked target.

Why?

Because it would be the worst possible way to design a hero in a team-based game, as they would become completely independent from their allies. Every character is supposed to have weaknesses.

The entire point of these characters is to grab priority targets and put them in an unfavorable situation, allowing their team to finish the job. They literally feed off bad positioning. They all have bad damage for a very good reason.

If you played Heroes of the Storm or League of Legends imagine if Dehaka, Blitzcrank or Thresh could oneshot the targets they displace. Yes, it is as retarded as it sounds, because they would become irreplaceable meta picks with very little counterplay.

It makes zero sense for a hero with such a displacement ability to also be able to oneshot their target, because this is a team game. You either hook or you oneshot, but you can't do both. One-man-army characters don't translate well into a multiplayer team-based game. Something this forum won't get through its thick skull.
We have a sniper with wall hacks, a COD player with aimbot, a walking microwave, a hero who gets play of the game from his turrent while using the sit emote, a gatling gun that can heal itself, a hero who wins every close range 1v1 by freezing them

And you're worried about the only tank that can't shield his allies.

I personally think he's a unique breed of tank. He uses his killing power as a shield because almost every hero deals more damage by being closer. Every hero deals with fall off damage and if roadhog is forcing the enemies to stay in fall off range to prevent the hook then he is technically reducing all received damage like a reinhardt shield just by being there.

The right click one shots aren't really different to a scatter arrow. Most of them amount to nothing, but it is pretty annoying to randomly die from it.

Roadhog isn't perfect, that's true, but he definitely is not single-handedly ruining the game.
04/30/2017 02:18 PMPosted by Taikichi
We have a sniper with wall hacks, a COD player with aimbot, a walking microwave, a hero who gets play of the game from his turrent while using the sit emote, a gatling gun that can heal itself, a hero who wins every close range 1v1 by freezing them

And you're worried about the only tank that can't shield his allies.

I personally think he's a unique breed of tank. He uses his killing power as a shield because almost every hero deals more damage by being closer. Every hero deals with fall off damage and if roadhog is forcing the enemies to stay in fall off range to prevent the hook then he is technically reducing all received damage like a reinhardt shield just by being there.

The right click one shots aren't really different to a scatter arrow. Most of them amount to nothing, but it is pretty annoying to randomly die from it.

Roadhog isn't perfect, that's true, but he definitely is not single-handedly ruining the game.
And all of those take more effort and require far less counter play than mr shift -> click

The difference between right click and scatter is like a 14 second cooldown
04/30/2017 02:18 PMPosted by Taikichi
We have a sniper with wall hacks, a COD player with aimbot, a walking microwave, a hero who gets play of the game from his turrent while using the sit emote, a gatling gun that can heal itself, a hero who wins every close range 1v1 by freezing them

And you're worried about the only tank that can't shield his allies.

I personally think he's a unique breed of tank. He uses his killing power as a shield because almost every hero deals more damage by being closer. Every hero deals with fall off damage and if roadhog is forcing the enemies to stay in fall off range to prevent the hook then he is technically reducing all received damage like a reinhardt shield just by being there.

The right click one shots aren't really different to a scatter arrow. Most of them amount to nothing, but it is pretty annoying to randomly die from it.

Roadhog isn't perfect, that's true, but he definitely is not single-handedly ruining the game.

^THIS
A month or two back I remember making a poll seeing whether the community would prefer it if ONLY the snipers (Widow/Hanzo) can one shot as a central part of their gameplay (stuff like Rein's Charge doesn't count since that's actually balanced and is not something Rein centers his gameplay around) or if the game should stay the way it is with Roadhog in it.

Interestingly the results were pretty 50/50, with a slight lean towards the snipers being the only ones that can one shot.

Personally, I feel that Roadhog really shouldn't be the way he is, he just feels like a tank variant of Soldier 76, another one man army, but slower and fatter. There's a reason Soldier and Roadhog are some of the most highly recommended heroes to main in order to climb competitive solo queue.

Overwatch is a team game, and Roadhog sorta just does his own thing. Hanzo and Widow on the other hand need a good amount of help from their team to have a chance at even starting to become effective in a match on a consistent basis. Having a "tank" be basically a close to medium range sniper in a lot of cases doesn't sit well with me.

I don't even have that much trouble playing against Roadhogs anymore, so I'm not talking about his balance, but his design (along with McCree's for drastically different reasons) was never something I really bought into ever since day 1 OW launched.
Yawn.....
i wouldn't say he's anti-fun. what keeps dealing with roadhog fun is the fact that he has a huge hitbox, no armor, and a lot of health. the amount of ult charge you get from that is orgasmic. that's the main reason why he hasn't been nerfed into oblivion, which everyone seems to be on the fence about.

the risk vs reward dealing with roadhog is the greatest thing this game has to offer. that !@#$ is leagues better than dealing with pharmercy all god damn day. if you manage to get the jump on him, you get so much charge which you can use to turn the tides of battle. you don't get that feeling dealing with that stupid bull%^-* known as pharmercy. it's a just a god damn chore. the least fun aspect of the game.

suffice it to say, i'm okay with roadhog for what he is. he's a challenging character to deal with that you have to respect and be aware of at all times. you can even retaliate, unlike that god damn pharmercy which forces you to switch to two non-meta heroes and hope your soldier is adequate.
04/30/2017 02:18 PMPosted by Taikichi
We have a sniper with wall hacks


Not a problem

04/30/2017 02:18 PMPosted by Taikichi
a COD player with aimbot


Annoying because of his insane damage

04/30/2017 02:18 PMPosted by Taikichi
a walking microwave,


That has no range at all, and its your fault to get caught by it, not a problem

04/30/2017 02:18 PMPosted by Taikichi
a hero who gets play of the game from his turrent while using the sit emote,


I bet you yourself has not seem that ever, only in a youtube video.

04/30/2017 02:18 PMPosted by Taikichi
a gatling gun that can heal itself,


Stationary, not a problem

04/30/2017 02:18 PMPosted by Taikichi
a hero who wins every close range 1v1 by freezing them


Easy to deal with, not a problem.

So yeah, they aren't bad like Roadhog.
i hooked a tracer, she didn't die, she solo ulted on me

your argument shattered
04/30/2017 02:30 PMPosted by Pokono
04/30/2017 02:18 PMPosted by Taikichi
We have a sniper with wall hacks


Not a problem

04/30/2017 02:18 PMPosted by Taikichi
a COD player with aimbot


Annoying because of his insane damage

04/30/2017 02:18 PMPosted by Taikichi
a walking microwave,


That has no range at all, and its your fault to get caught by it, not a problem

04/30/2017 02:18 PMPosted by Taikichi
a hero who gets play of the game from his turrent while using the sit emote,


I bet you yourself has not seem that ever, only in a youtube video.

04/30/2017 02:18 PMPosted by Taikichi
a gatling gun that can heal itself,


Stationary, not a problem

04/30/2017 02:18 PMPosted by Taikichi
a hero who wins every close range 1v1 by freezing them


Easy to deal with, not a problem.

So yeah, they aren't bad like Roadhog.

I wouldn't say Mei is easy to deal with and I say that as a former Mei main. You CAN escape from her, unlike Roadhog, and her range is extremely limited.
there is a difference between a moba and an fps people.

you can't just compare dehaka, thresh, blitzcrank, stitches, and pudge to roadhog when they are all in mobas not fps.

And yes I agree that the hook can be stupid MANY times but lets think about it like this.

Many heroes could have them say "without this they would be useless" so saying that isn't a good defense for a character or a good reason to nerf them.

if they were to change roadhog they would need to rework him quite a bit.

imo give him the most health for any hero (600hp, 200 armor)

lower his damage on right click (or remove and add something else)

maybe make heal work like repair on bastion? except of course stationary.

hook now doesn't deal damage has lower range but slows enemys for 1 second maybe?

And visually change him so that the armor is actually on his (visual change for the armor add on for him)

now this is just a badly made up buff/nerf for roadhog I made up don't take anything I said seriously please.

But please stop comparing fps characters to mobs characters.
04/30/2017 02:33 PMPosted by gora
there is a difference between a moba and an fps people.

you can't just compare dehaka, thresh, blitzcrank, stitches, and pudge to roadhog when they are all in mobas not fps.

And yes I agree that the hook can be stupid MANY times but lets think about it like this.

Many heroes could have them say "without this they would be useless" so saying that isn't a good defense for a character or a good reason to nerf them.

if they were to change roadhog they would need to rework him quite a bit.

imo give him the most health for any hero (600hp, 200 armor)

lower his damage on right click (or remove and add something else)

maybe make heal work like repair on bastion? except of course stationary.

hook now doesn't deal damage has lower range but slows enemys for 1 second maybe?

And visually change him so that the armor is actually on his (visual change for the armor add on for him)

now this is just a badly made up buff/nerf for roadhog I made up don't take anything I said seriously please.

But please stop comparing fps characters to mobs characters.

A fat man should not have the most HP in the game unless he has the lowest damage in the game and is basically a walking wall that you have to get through in order to reach his team. Kind of like Reinhardt, except instead of deploying a shield, you ARE the shield.
Honestly?
On one hand I agree it's bad design.

On the other hand, I just don't care?

I mean, how do you fix him? You could go a route similar to the way DotA2 would. Where he scales in damage the more he's involved in kills. Making him a literal "walking apocalypse".

But I don't think that fits in the game, tbh.

There's no good way to address RH's design. Because I also don't think a pull by itself is enough.

And if you added another stun to the character, then the QQ over the character would be 20x's louder than it already is.

And that's the reality.

In order for Roadhog's kit to be good without 1 shots, he would need even more CC which would just piss everyone off even more.
04/30/2017 02:32 PMPosted by Luci
I wouldn't say Mei is easy to deal with and I say that as a former Mei main. You CAN escape from her, unlike Roadhog, and her range is extremely limited.
But most importantly she has absolutely no means to get in range. Mei is completely immobile.

Roadhog on the other hand can close the gap with a 20 meter range fast skillshot, survive the 1v1 thanks to his massive health pool and deal enough to damage to oneshot his target.

Doesn't even need to freeze his target, which is a much more balanced mechanic for a 1v1 as it is not instant inescapable death.
Two words:

Flanking Roadhog.

By all principles of game design, this shouldn't work, let alone be just as common (and actually more effective) as actual flanking heroes in the backline (at least, in most of the games I play).

And yet, Roadhog has a kit that's so laser focused on being self-sufficient and mind numbingly lethal in his range that if he's willing to take the long way around, anyone who can aim his hook is guaranteed at least one free kill, usually more. He can go on a killing spree, then just waddle off and restore up to half of his freaking enormous HP bar every ten seconds.

Forget "the deterrence from hook/huge damage makes Roadhog a tank." If deterrence is all it takes, nearly the entire roster is qualified to be a tank.
04/30/2017 02:37 PMPosted by ŎneWhoSighs
Honestly?
On one hand I agree it's bad design.

On the other hand, I just don't care?

I mean, how do you fix him? You could go a route similar to the way DotA2 would. Where he scales in damage the more he's involved in kills. Making him a literal "walking apocalypse".

But I don't think that fits in the game, tbh.

There's no good way to address RH's design. Because I also don't think a pull by itself is enough.

And if you added another stun to the character, then the QQ over the character would be 20x's louder than it already is.

And that's the reality.

In order for Roadhog's kit to be good without 1 shots, he would need even more CC which would just piss everyone off even more.
Roadhog's base design was a mistake
04/30/2017 02:33 PMPosted by gora
there is a difference between a moba and an fps people.

you can't just compare dehaka, thresh, blitzcrank, stitches, and pudge to roadhog when they are all in mobas not fps.

And yes I agree that the hook can be stupid MANY times but lets think about it like this.

Many heroes could have them say "without this they would be useless" so saying that isn't a good defense for a character or a good reason to nerf them.

if they were to change roadhog they would need to rework him quite a bit.

imo give him the most health for any hero (600hp, 200 armor)

lower his damage on right click (or remove and add something else)

maybe make heal work like repair on bastion? except of course stationary.

hook now doesn't deal damage has lower range but slows enemys for 1 second maybe?

And visually change him so that the armor is actually on his (visual change for the armor add on for him)

now this is just a badly made up buff/nerf for roadhog I made up don't take anything I said seriously please.

But please stop comparing fps characters to mobs characters.


Then compare him to Makoa from Paladins. Yes, he has a shield he can use, but he doesn't have a self heal ability*. They both have hooks, and a weapon with a small magazine. Makoa can't one shot anybody, but he can pull them to his team so everyone can focus them down.

*All characters have a self heal from being out of combat long enough, but that's not really like Roadhogs ability.
04/30/2017 02:33 PMPosted by gora
But please stop comparing fps characters to mobs characters.
You have a point, but let's be honest here... Overwatch isn't an FPS in the true sense of the word.

True shooters like the old arena games (Quake, UT) or the modern ones (CoD, Battlefield, etc.) don't have stuff like tank classes or supports with hooks. They're mostly about aiming and positioning. The most you'll get are actual vehicle tanks. The old ones in particular focus entirely on individual skill.

Here we have tanks, healers, disruptors, melee heroes and characters that don't even need to aim. If I didn't know this was an FPS I'd think Overwatch is a MOBA. As a result it should be treated like the hybrid it is.

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