The ''If Roadhog doesn't one-shot, he will suck'' People

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With Orisa there is MORE than enough to get rid of him on top of him having a cooldown on everything that is much longer. Sure one-shot someone else and that is 8 seconds with out that supposedly cool godlike ability even with his self heal that's the time to focus him down (the ideal way to defeat any tank in the game) as trying to self heal while you're soaking up damage is only beneficial to the people pumping you full of lead at that moment. You are right he is pretty ridiculous but he has obvious counters that I think people keep ignoring mainly he can't do shish when a company of 3 is around.

"his alt fire can one !@#$ people too"

yeah and again it is a single target why are you trying to 1v1 a tank anyway I have more trouble personally fighting D.vas and Zayras alone than Roadhog. That spectacular aim can only do so much until you get dog piled by more than half the team.
04/30/2017 03:07 PMPosted by Kinni
04/30/2017 02:09 PMPosted by Luci
Here is Dehaka, a Hero in Heroes of the Storm. He is a Feral Zerg who is able to latch onto people with his tongue and stun them, able to drag them into his team or attack them himself.

https://youtu.be/1c5SJV7-Q9A?t=3m39s

Note how it says to 'grab squishy assassins, or healers, for your team to focus down.' and 'if you grab an enemy warrior (tank), be ready for the fight as Dehaka's low damage may not be enough to secure a kill.'

Also note how SHORT the range for Dehaka's 'drag' is. What you saw in the trailer is his maximum drag range. It doesn't say 'drag anyone you want because you'll kill them anyway', it literally warns you to be cautious of who you drag because they'll easily overwhelm you.

Guess what? Dehaka is a GREAT HERO. He is still used widely and can be competitive.


This is not a ducking moba you fool. Why are you even trying to compare the too.

I stg it's always moba players who suck trying to suggest dumbass balance changes.

Okay, let's look at another character from another FPS game named Makoa.

Makoa has a hook too. He's pretty chunky and has quite a lot of HP. His health regenerates automatically.

His gun does a good deal of damage when he hooks someone and uses it. However, it's not enough to kill even the squishiest of squishies. He requires his team's help to finish off kills. He just sets them up for it. His team doesn't act on it? Their fault.
04/30/2017 02:14 PMPosted by Ixron
04/30/2017 02:09 PMPosted by Luci
Note how it says to 'grab squishy assassins, or healers, for your team to focus down.' and 'if you grab an enemy warrior (tank), be ready for the fight as Dehaka's low damage may not be enough to secure a kill.'
On a similar note, many people here likely played League of Legends in the past and know about Blitzcrank and Thresh.

For those who never played LoL, these two characters are supports with hook abilities. Blitzcrank literally has Roadhog's hook, whereas Thresh merely stuns them and yanks them a bit towards him upon landing the skillshot.

Neither of them can oneshot the hooked target.

Why?

Because it would be the worst possible way to design a hero in a team-based game, as they would become completely independent from their allies. Every character is supposed to have weaknesses.

The entire point of these characters is to grab priority targets and put them in an unfavorable situation, allowing their team to finish the job. They literally feed off bad positioning. They all have bad damage for a very good reason.

If you played Heroes of the Storm or League of Legends imagine if Dehaka, Blitzcrank or Thresh could oneshot the targets they displace. Yes, it is as retarded as it sounds, because they would become irreplaceable meta picks with very little counterplay.

It makes zero sense for a hero with such a displacement ability to also be able to oneshot their target, because this is a team game. You either hook or you oneshot, but you can't do both. One-man-army characters don't translate well into a multiplayer team-based game. Something this forum won't get through its thick skull.


Actually, Blitz can easily one-shot squishies if you build him AP. With just 500 AP he'll deal 2042 damage in a full rotation, on top of the pull, knock up and silence. Even with the base MR you're not gonna survive that as for example Orianna.
AD Thresh can also kill squishies in a single rotation and an auto attack or two.
If you could build damage items in Heroes I'm pretty sure Dehaka would be able to one-shot too.
04/30/2017 02:09 PMPosted by Luci
Here is Dehaka, a Hero in Heroes of the Storm. He is a Feral Zerg who is able to latch onto people with his tongue and stun them, able to drag them into his team or attack them himself.

https://youtu.be/1c5SJV7-Q9A?t=3m39s

Note how it says to 'grab squishy assassins, or healers, for your team to focus down.' and 'if you grab an enemy warrior (tank), be ready for the fight as Dehaka's low damage may not be enough to secure a kill.'

Also note how SHORT the range for Dehaka's 'drag' is. What you saw in the trailer is his maximum drag range. It doesn't say 'drag anyone you want because you'll kill them anyway', it literally warns you to be cautious of who you drag because they'll easily overwhelm you.

Guess what? Dehaka is a GREAT HERO. He is still used widely and can be competitive.
You forgot Stitches which actually has Roadhog's hook but like Dehaka he also doesn't have ridiculous burst damage like Roadhog
The reason Road Hog is hated IMO is he uses A SHOTGUN aka all the ONE SHOTS etc he would need a new, longer ranged guy or a better one if his damage was removed and I would just stop playing tbh. Soldier goes untouched, Hanzo's is allowed to do this. Bastion passed fine, Mcree;s left out TLDR:get gud.
...

Except Reinhardt's damage to a group is terrifying when played well. Roadhog is a one trick pony. Take away his ability to one shot the low health characters after he hooks them and he literally turns into a walking ultimate battery as they escape.

You don't realise that I know that? I achieved GM by playing Reinhardt and was ranked Top 50 a month or so ago before I stopped playing.

Reinhardt's damage is reliant on him:

Dropping his shield (putting his team at risk)
Holding M1 and hoping he hits something while walking forward.

He can be juked. His counter is literally just holding S and shooting him since he's a massive target that hasn't stunned you.

I'd be in favour of reducing Hook CD to 6 seconds IF people were able to escape during it. If they used their escape(s) and they're hooked, they get instakilled as normal. Roadhog would have to keep an eye on people using escapes and therefore he would have to use his brain. If he hooks someone and they're out of escapes, they got outplayed and should have saved the escapes.


WELL was the keyword of my point. A GREAT Reinhardt know when it's "safe" to go crazy berserk mode. The point is, a well played character will always outlay a bad played character. Including counters.

I AGREE that the Hook needs some adjusting. Either a slightly longer cooldown (10 seconds instead of 8 for example) or that is range should be reduced (say 15 meters instead of 20). But remove that ability to one shot a person unfortunate enough to be hooked, whether by bad positioning, bad use of mobility, whatever, would send Roadhog through the floor in terms of ability to do much aside from behind a walking battery.

Now, if you wanted to make him a proper tank, instead of a walking hulking monster that dishes out huge damage at short to medium-short range, replace his self heal with like a ballistics shield or something on a similar cooldown, but it only has say, 200-300 health. That way, he'd be more of a "tank" in that he could somewhat defend people (like D.Va) but at the same time, his hook would be able to displace people into a group fight, rather then him being a character who is designed around self-sustainability.
Blitzcrank can't kill !@#$ and is still useful as hell.
If'n you can't actually fathom a way to make a hero with an ability like Hog's hook work without him instantly killing whatever he hooks, you lack imagination.
04/30/2017 02:09 PMPosted by Luci
Here is Dehaka, a Hero in Heroes of the Storm. He is a Feral Zerg who is able to latch onto people with his tongue and stun them, able to drag them into his team or attack them himself.


A drag is different then a hook for starters talk about dishonesty I won't even get into the fact he has a global teleport.

Why not mention you know stitches the hero with an actual hook oh wait Stitches is hyper situational.

Typical dishonest trash from a battle.net poster color me surprised.

04/30/2017 03:44 PMPosted by Diem
Blitzcrank can't kill !@#$ and is still useful as hell.


What on earth are you talking about Blitz has burst damage and with the right items and rune set up he kills people in a knock up ult combo what is with these bads talking about mobas?
He's not well-designed, but he definitely doesn't "ruin the game." He's annoying OP at worst.
04/30/2017 02:43 PMPosted by IHirs
04/30/2017 02:05 PMPosted by Pokono
Then it shows you that his design is bad and needs a rework. ''Bait the hook you idiot, lul'' Okay, proceeds to get one shot anyway by right click~ He is anti-fun and ruins the game.
maybe dont stand between 10-11 meters away from him? thats a relaly small window
Man, never thought of that. Alright no one ever get on the point when there's a Roadhog nearby. Don't worry he won't be able too hook you then.
I could tolerate one shots if he didn't have the highest health pool in game, a self heal and a hook that drags you 20 meters away.

It's one thing for glass canons to be able to one shot but for a tank? I'll never be a fan of that.
yeah and again it is a single target why are you trying to 1v1 a tank anyway I have more trouble personally fighting D.vas and Zayras alone than Roadhog. That spectacular aim can only do so much until you get dog piled by more than half the team.


Stop.
04/30/2017 03:56 PMPosted by Paradox
04/30/2017 02:43 PMPosted by IHirs
...maybe dont stand between 10-11 meters away from him? thats a relaly small window
Man, never thought of that. Alright no one ever get on the point when there's a Roadhog nearby. Don't worry he won't be able too hook you then.
he wont be able to right click u
I think one thing to note is that you can't change the one-shot nature of Roadhog without completely reworking his gun. He one shots because he has a close-range (Mid with right click), low fire rate, low ammo shotgun. If that gun cannot one shot at close range he becomes the worst tank in the game, since without damage it would be hands down the worst weapon in this game. Especially since he's also the only tank that has no method by which they can protect their team. His kit revolves around removing threats by killing them. I wouldn't even call his playstyle a tank, he's more like a juggernaut/bruiser from league. Low Mobility, High HP, massive damage.

Honestly, if Blizz wants to move him away from that sort of playstyle they'll have to rework his kit
04/30/2017 04:07 PMPosted by Shokio
yeah and again it is a single target why are you trying to 1v1 a tank anyway I have more trouble personally fighting D.vas and Zayras alone than Roadhog. That spectacular aim can only do so much until you get dog piled by more than half the team.


Stop.


Any reasons, tips, counter arguements?......

Nah just downvote because that is what the rest of the mob is doing. I don't like it either side is doing it and it is the reason why no one will truly be satisfied.
04/30/2017 04:18 PMPosted by Lajinn
I think one thing to note is that you can't change the one-shot nature of Roadhog without completely reworking his gun. He one shots because he has a close-range (Mid with right click), low fire rate, low ammo shotgun. If that gun cannot one shot at close range he becomes the worst tank in the game, since without damage it would be hands down the worst weapon in this game. Especially since he's also the only tank that has no method by which they can protect their team. His kit revolves around removing threats by killing them. I wouldn't even call his playstyle a tank, he's more like a juggernaut/bruiser from league. Low Mobility, High HP, massive damage.

Honestly, if Blizz wants to move him away from that sort of playstyle they'll have to rework his kit


That's kind of how view him as yes his one shot can be annoying but in order to change that you have to completely change the dynamic of the character.
04/30/2017 04:24 PMPosted by GrandMetro
04/30/2017 04:18 PMPosted by Lajinn
I think one thing to note is that you can't change the one-shot nature of Roadhog without completely reworking his gun. He one shots because he has a close-range (Mid with right click), low fire rate, low ammo shotgun. If that gun cannot one shot at close range he becomes the worst tank in the game, since without damage it would be hands down the worst weapon in this game. Especially since he's also the only tank that has no method by which they can protect their team. His kit revolves around removing threats by killing them. I wouldn't even call his playstyle a tank, he's more like a juggernaut/bruiser from league. Low Mobility, High HP, massive damage.

Honestly, if Blizz wants to move him away from that sort of playstyle they'll have to rework his kit


That's kind of how view him as yes his one shot can be annoying but in order to change that you have to completely change the dynamic of the character.
They had no problem doing it to Dva, they can do it to Hog too.
If Widow didn't one shot, she would be bad

Does that make her design flawed?

If Tracer couldn't blink, her design would be bad

You see how dumb your argument is?
IMO Blizzard needs to decide whether they want to generate threat with the damn hook or damage... pick ONE and rework Hog accordingly.
Hog is fine, a balanced hero that should remain the way he is, any nerfs and you'll risk making him useless in the blink of an eye, especially some of the nerfs people think he needs, my god some of you don't have a clue about balance.

People complain because why? the hook mostly, and a few about the healing. Now lets look at Hog for a moment, he can't out run jack !@#$, he can't defend himself with a shield, and his weapon is very weak outside of 2 ranges with a very small mag size, hence why he has a hook to help him. Let us also remember that he is a large target with a pretty big head to shoot at.

" He's not fun to play against ", how do you define that? because he can kill you and you can't do anything about it? A lot of other heroes can do the same, so what's different about hog? Is it because you die trying to kill a hog alone? not something you should be trying against most other heroes as well. So what is it exactly?

It's really simple guys, don't get hooked, this is a team game after all, use your teammate's abilities to your advantage, use your surroundings to help not get hooked, bait out the hook, or perhaps change your group comp if you're stilling having trouble, shields tend to make it hard for hog to hook.

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