Is McCree Really Fine as is?

General Discussion
Aimbotcalvin in top 500 says McCree is fine as is & that Soldier needs a nerf, IDDQD says there's no reason to pick McCree over Soldier which could either mean Soldier just needs a nerf or McCree needs some sort of buff/rework, or both. I'm adamantly told two different point of views.

A. Soldier just needs a nerf & McCree is fine as is

B. McCrees left click damage is fine, but his flashbang is inconsistent/not very good for it's cooldown, roll is not very good for it's cooldown (glorified reload, some suggest giving it iframes), fan the hammer is weak so as a result it's not used very often, and his ult his not very good/the delay should be removed.

What do you guys think?

EDIT: Why am I getting downvoted for asking what other people think? lol
McCree just needs changes to combat roll and flashbang to get fixed. Everything else is ok, maybe increasing his fall off distance by a slight amount if anything.
That's because once u play with mccrees who aim well, you'll see their damage is absolutely insane, and if anything you'd be thinking he's op. The reason why his range is so short, and why it's been changed so many times, is because when it was longer he simply destroyed anything in his sights.

The real problem with mccree is that he is a massively high skill character like Hanzo and widow, and people want him to be as easy to play as soldier, which is not what blizzard wants.
McCree requires MUCH more aim and positioning than Soldier. He just has a higher skillset, but Deadeye could use some sort of defense.
I think knocking 1-2 seconds off flashbang cooldown, and slightly increase his fth damage.
I would change McCree's minimum falloff, but keep his range the same. Right now his minimum damage per shot is 20, but I would bring that up to 50. That way even at extreme ranges he can still be effective, without making him a sniper again. That, and fix flashbang. Then he'd be a good alternative.
Maybe a revert to pre-mcsnipers damage and falloff?
04/18/2017 01:07 PMPosted by Poytheon
Aimbotcalvin in top 500 says McCree is fine as is & that Soldier needs a nerf, IDDQD says there's no reason to pick McCree over Soldier which could either mean Soldier just needs a nerf or McCree needs some sort of buff/rework, or both. I'm adamantly told two different point of views.

A. Soldier just needs a nerf & McCree is fine as is

B. McCrees left click damage is fine, but his flashbang is inconsistent/not very good for it's cooldown, roll is not very good for it's cooldown (glorified reload, some suggest giving it iframes), and his ult his not very good/the delay should be removed.

What do you guys think?


If Aimbotcalvin thinks MC is fine as it is, then why even bring S76 to the discussion? See? These top 500 are as full of cr@p as the rest of us.

Being "good" with a hero does not mean a hero is "fine". Even worse, taking only in consideration such a minuscule portion of the people who play this game as a standard makes no sense.
yes except for his ultimate...

i think they can do something extra about his combat roll.

In most situations you want a 76 and even if that player is a godly mccree he/she might be even more godly on 76.

Mccree might be a better pick if there are tracer issues tho.
Keep in mind IDDQD is the guy who insulted Mercy mains for making it to top 500 or GM. So he's pretty damn subjective. That said everyone is.
His ult is the only problem I have with him.
His flash bang really needs work as it's currently to inconsistent.
I say give him back some ult charge for cancelling Deadeye, and see how he feels after that.
04/18/2017 01:25 PMPosted by Bloodbath
Keep in mind IDDQD is the guy who insulted Mercy mains for making it to top 500 or GM. So he's pretty damn subjective. That said everyone is.


That was Taimou.

I'd rather see McCree get a very small buff to his mobility or his ultimate than a Soldier nerf lest tanks begin to overshadow DPS in damage dealing again. His damage is fine if you can aim, and he has a big advantage over Soldier in that his damage can't be healed through since it's bursty.
04/18/2017 01:12 PMPosted by KingKai
That's because once u play with mccrees who aim well, you'll see their damage is absolutely insane, and if anything you'd be thinking he's op. The reason why his range is so short, and why it's been changed so many times, is because when it was longer he simply destroyed anything in his sights.

The real problem with mccree is that he is a massively high skill character like Hanzo and widow, and people want him to be as easy to play as soldier, which is not what blizzard wants.


I don't at all think people want him to be easy to play. The complaints I hear most is that he's so lopsided to his left click now that he just feels clunky at this point. You rarely use Fan the Hammer anymore since it's damage isn't really anything special compared to (guess what) a left click headshot dealing a little over half of the same damage of 6 bullets.

04/18/2017 01:14 PMPosted by Shadow
McCree requires MUCH more aim and positioning than Soldier. He just has a higher skillset, but Deadeye could use some sort of defense.


I agree, but I don't think McCree is rewarded enough for how unforgiving his kit is compared to Soldier. Soldier can output more DPS, be in & out of fights easier/quicker, can self sustain himself and not worry so much about positioning, & has a really good ultimate. I think McCree should absolutely stand out from the rest of the DPS since he's essentially the only one without any sort of sustain/mobility.

04/18/2017 01:18 PMPosted by Balsty
I would change McCree's minimum falloff, but keep his range the same. Right now his minimum damage per shot is 20, but I would bring that up to 50. That way even at extreme ranges he can still be effective, without making him a sniper again. That, and fix flashbang. Then he'd be a good alternative.


I think 50 would be a bit too much, but 35 I could get behind, that way you have to hit all 6 shots to kill 200hp heroes at your max range. Or 3 headshots.

04/18/2017 01:18 PMPosted by Raisins
Aimbotcalvin in top 500 says McCree is fine as is & that Soldier needs a nerf, IDDQD says there's no reason to pick McCree over Soldier which could either mean Soldier just needs a nerf or McCree needs some sort of buff/rework, or both. I'm adamantly told two different point of views.

A. Soldier just needs a nerf & McCree is fine as is

B. McCrees left click damage is fine, but his flashbang is inconsistent/not very good for it's cooldown, roll is not very good for it's cooldown (glorified reload, some suggest giving it iframes), and his ult his not very good/the delay should be removed.

What do you guys think?


If Aimbotcalvin thinks MC is fine as it is, then why even bring S76 to the discussion? See? These top 500 are as full of cr@p as the rest of us.

Being "good" with a hero does not mean a hero is "fine". Even worse, taking only in consideration such a minuscule portion of the people who play this game as a standard makes no sense.


I agree with you, although it's a slippery slope, I don't think it's really fair to judge balance/viability off of the top 1% of players, they can make ANY hero look good even if they are factually underpowered. At the same time, Blizzard does need to take into consideration how they balance characters because making a character good at all ELO's often means being too strong at top ranks. It's sort of contradictory though since they've allowed Soldier to be this strong for this long.

04/18/2017 01:29 PMPosted by LittleMissMP
His flash bang really needs work as it's currently to inconsistent.


I just think flashbang needs to be more forgiving when you throw it, whether if someone is right in front of you and it explodes because it detects a nearby targets instead of flying past them, or if you throw it at the ground that it doesn't somehow get deflected by Genjis huge deflect hitbox, or stopping momentum. Just some quality of life changes really.
No. He is strictly worse than 76. You need only to look at their weapon dps and utility skills to see that.

I'm sure we'll get a few guys going on about how godlike he is with headshots but the truth is 76 can kill a 200 health hero in little over a second with perfect aim on body shots, Mcree can kill a target in a second flat if he lands a headshot followed by a body shot.

So your reward for playing Mcree and having a 50% headshot accuracy rate is killing average health pool heroes a fraction of a second quicker than a decent 76 capable of keeping his/her aim on you for 1.25 seconds. That sound like much of an advantage to you? People also tend to forget that soldier can in fact get headshots to trim down his time to kill as well.

The question is how many people could even boast such mythical accuracy when even those that get payed to play this game rarely ever achieve that level of consistency with headshots?

The even better question is if you are in fact capable of that than why play Mcree over Widow or Hanzo who both have much better mobility, ultimates(lol), no falloff, and most importantly are capable of instantly killing average health pool heroes with a headshot.

As for his kit, do I even really need to bother? Why not.

FTH vs Helix Rockets - Boast one of the highest dps scores in the game but is utterly useless outside of melee distance. Rockets on the other hand offer good burst damage at short to medium range and even offer a little AoE to boot. Can actually kill average health heroes at a comparable time to a Mcree that lands a headshot when combined with primary fire.

Combat Roll vs Sprint - Combat roll is almost entirely useless as a mobility tool as the range is incredibly short and the CD long. We may as well call it what it is, a glorified free reload. Sprint on the other hand has no CD, no resource meter, and allows 76 to quickly exit or enter the fight. His sprint makes 76 one of the quickest heroes in the game over distance.

Flashbang vs Biotic Field - Flashbang is short duration stun, not even a second long(0.7). It's extremely short range, has a very long CD, and doesn't even halt momentum. This not even going into how janky and inconsistent it is in use. Biotic field is an AoE heal that not only allows 76 to go from 1 to 200 in 5 seconds but to share the love with nearby allies, all while still being able to shoot and lay down fire. To put this in perspective 76s heal actually heals significantly quicker than a Zen orb and only a little less than a Lucio healing aura under the affects of Amp it Up. Biotic field wouldn't be out of place on a support hero yet it's attached to a hero with some of the best consistent damage around.

DeadEye vs Tactical Visor - Don't think I need to say much here. Deadeye gives off a massive visual and audio cue and requires my opponents to stand out in the open for several seconds while Mcree stands out in the open glowing like the freaking sun. 76 meanwhile has one of the best ultimates in the game. It accomplishes much of what a perfect Mcree ultimate might, but activates instantly and can be synced with Nano boost or Mercy damage beam to instantly melt anything in 76's sight. Oh and he can move unhindered and use his other abilities for the entire duration as well.

To answer the OPs original question, a bit of both honestly. 76 is way too versatile a hero in a game comprised entirely of specialist, and he doesn't currently make any compromises for this versatility either.

On the other hand even if 76 was nerfed into the ground Mcree doesn't really add anything to the team that can't be significantly fulfilled better by another hero outside a few niche situations you'd need to double up on hitscan.
Everyone wants soldier and ana nerfed, but then you will have to deal with pharah+mery, and roadhog every single game. And tracer.

They should just buff McCree and Reaper.
04/18/2017 02:55 PMPosted by BomberGob
No. He is strictly worse than 76. You need only to look at their weapon dps and utility skills to see that.

I'm sure we'll get a few guys going on about how godlike he is with headshots but the truth is 76 can kill a 200 health hero in little over a second with perfect aim on body shots, Mcree can kill a target in a second flat if he lands a headshot followed by a body shot.

So your reward for playing Mcree and having a 50% headshot accuracy rate is killing average health pool heroes a fraction of a second quicker than a decent 76 capable of keeping his/her aim on you for 1.25 seconds. That sound like much of an advantage to you? People also tend to forget that soldier can in fact get headshots to trim down his time to kill as well.

The question is how many people could even boast such mythical accuracy when even those that get payed to play this game rarely ever achieve that level of consistency with headshots?

The even better question is if you are in fact capable of that than why play Mcree over Widow or Hanzo who both have much better mobility, ultimates(lol), no falloff, and most importantly are capable of instantly killing average health pool heroes with a headshot.

As for his kit, do I even really need to bother? Why not.

FTH vs Helix Rockets - Boast one of the highest dps scores in the game but is utterly useless outside of melee distance. Rockets on the other hand offer good burst damage at short to medium range and even offer a little AoE to boot. Can actually kill average health heroes at a comparable time to a Mcree that lands a headshot when combined with primary fire.

Combat Roll vs Sprint - Combat roll is almost entirely useless as a mobility tool as the range is incredibly short and the CD long. We may as well call it what it is, a glorified free reload. Sprint on the other hand has no CD, no resource meter, and allows 76 to quickly exit or enter the fight. His sprint makes 76 one of the quickest heroes in the game over distance.

Flashbang vs Biotic Field - Flashbang is short duration stun, not even a second long(0.7). It's extremely short range, has a very long CD, and doesn't even halt momentum. This not even going into how janky and inconsistent it is in use. Biotic field is an AoE heal that not only allows 76 to go from 1 to 200 in 5 seconds but to share the love with nearby allies, all while still being able to shoot and lay down fire. To put this in perspective 76s heal actually heals significantly quicker than a Zen orb and only a little less than a Lucio healing aura under the affects of Amp it Up. Biotic field wouldn't be out of place on a support hero yet it's attached to a hero with some of the best consistent damage around.

DeadEye vs Tactical Visor - Don't think I need to say much here. Deadeye gives off a massive visual and audio cue and requires my opponents to stand out in the open for several seconds while Mcree stands out in the open glowing like the freaking sun. 76 meanwhile has one of the best ultimates in the game. It accomplishes much of what a perfect Mcree ultimate might, but activates instantly and can be synced with Nano boost or Mercy damage beam to instantly melt anything in 76's sight. Oh and he can move unhindered and use his other abilities for the entire duration as well.

To answer the OPs original question, a bit of both honestly. 76 is way too versatile a hero in a game comprised entirely of specialist, and he doesn't currently make any compromises for this versatility either.

On the other hand even if 76 was nerfed into the ground Mcree doesn't really add anything to the team that can't be significantly fulfilled better by another hero outside a few niche situations you'd need to double up on hitscan.


This is all so very well said. Completely agree and great analysis + comparisons

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