Why Does Roadhog Deserve to Have His Alt Fire?

General Discussion
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05/20/2017 06:49 AMPosted by SeraphLance
05/20/2017 06:46 AMPosted by Attlus
He's supposed to counter Roadhog.


No he's not. Nothing about their kits implies that either character was meant to counter the other. Nothing about Reaper is intrinsically meant for killing tanks. He's an incidental tankbuster because he's a short-range hero that does a ton of damage. What is Roadhog? A short-range hero that does a ton of damage.


Except Geoff goodman himself
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20752559736?page=26#post-502

“Heroes like Reaper that are generally supposed to be good at taking down tanks weren’t very effective because of all the armor they had to get through. With lowered armor, she now has more legitimate counters and she still counters many heroes and abilities in the game, especially considering her Defense Matrix wasn’t touched.”

In his adress to the DVA nerfs Geoff, lead character designer, SPECIFICALLY MENTIONS REAPER IS MEANT TO BE GOOD AT KILLING TANKS. Not only that, but he also mentions that the armor was the thing holding him back in this regard, again, this is important and why DVA was nerfed. Of the tanks there are only two who don't have armor, and therefore are supposed to be more receptive to Reaper's intended design mechanic.
05/18/2017 03:45 PMPosted by Ixron
https://gfycat.com/RespectfulOnlyKusimanse
No. This is by no means justifiable anymore.
He shouldn't be able to one shot a full health Zarya, who is a tank as well.

I have said it before and I will say it again, his damage output needs to be nerfed by a lot. (Just his base weapon and not his abilities and ult.)
Right now is he a better dps'er than Reaper.
He has a large health and healing ability to compensate for that.

I'm sorry guys, but Roadhog is too strong at the moment imo. Even his counters (Mei and Reaper) aren't good for countering him anymore.
This is a meme now
]So is for every other hero, saying "Well if the entire team focuses that one hero, they die! So thats why they are balanced.", that's illogical, he completely !@#$s up everyone, thats the problem.

well thats true but no other hero really requires focus fire. i like to play Ana to help counter hog but i cant kill him by myself so i anti heal him so dps doesnt have to deal with his extra 300 health.
Nerf the pig already
05/20/2017 07:48 AMPosted by Attlus
05/20/2017 06:49 AMPosted by SeraphLance
...

No he's not. Nothing about their kits implies that either character was meant to counter the other. Nothing about Reaper is intrinsically meant for killing tanks. He's an incidental tankbuster because he's a short-range hero that does a ton of damage. What is Roadhog? A short-range hero that does a ton of damage.


Except Geoff goodman himself
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20752559736?page=26#post-502

“Heroes like Reaper that are generally supposed to be good at taking down tanks weren’t very effective because of all the armor they had to get through. With lowered armor, she now has more legitimate counters and she still counters many heroes and abilities in the game, especially considering her Defense Matrix wasn’t touched.”

In his adress to the DVA nerfs Geoff, lead character designer, SPECIFICALLY MENTIONS REAPER IS MEANT TO BE GOOD AT KILLING TANKS. Not only that, but he also mentions that the armor was the thing holding him back in this regard, again, this is important and why DVA was nerfed. Of the tanks there are only two who don't have armor, and therefore are supposed to be more receptive to Reaper's intended design mechanic.


So basically, what you're telling me is that you read nothing I said.
-He has 600 hp
-A long range hook to compensate for his regular fire'a short range
- He has 600 hp heal
For a character that has everything he needs to get him and or his enemies close to him he has an alt fire to take away a method of counterplay if it counts even as a method. "Dodge the hook so you don't get one shotted" oh but hey I have an alt fire too and I'll just one shot with you with that.

Try to defend why he SHOULD have an alt fire. All this alt fire does is take away a method of counterplay which should be effective if he misses his hook or to mention he has a shotgun to 1 shot when you get close.


Holy hell you're whining like a little kid.

So you want him to be only effective at a maximum of 3 metres? With a huge !@# hitbox, slow movement speed and a huge cooldown on his kit? Ok man, you make sense.

Ok, since you don't seem to get it. It would make him a worse Reaper. It would throw him into fricking Z tier, that's how bad he would be. He would need huge buffs to his kit in order to make him useful. He has exactly TWO ranges where he deals damage, one of the VERY few heroes who are limited in their damage capabilities. So yeah, are you still on your horse why people "try to defend" that? Get some sense for logic please.


05/18/2017 03:54 PMPosted by BossHog
Waaah. Shut up already. You play a Roadhog counter. Get over it.
It's hilarious how angry people get when someone just shares their opinions
I would love to see the people advocating for the removal of his alt fire play a few games as Roadhog with it unbound
No he's not. Nothing about their kits implies that either character was meant to counter the other. Nothing about Reaper is intrinsically meant for killing tanks. He's an incidental tankbuster because he's a short-range hero that does a ton of damage. What is Roadhog? A short-range hero that does a ton of damage.
"Heroes like Reaper that are generally supposed to be good at taking down tanks"
In his address to the DVA nerfs Geoff, lead character designer, SPECIFICALLY MENTIONS REAPER IS MEANT TO BE GOOD AT KILLING TANKS
05/20/2017 09:28 AMPosted by SeraphLance
So basically, what you're telling me is that you read nothing I said.


?????
Because the Dev team thought it'd be cool and the balance team did too, then they buffed the cone of fire on it like it wasn't going to be an issue.
To be fair, he is not even in pro play anymore, and is just an ult sponge.
Something other than 76 has to shred barriers.

I'm ok with things atm, but the alt fire from hook <=2.0 was perfectly fine and didn't need changing imo. The real question is why doesn't Reaper have anything comparable?
05/20/2017 09:57 AMPosted by Dysvalence
Something other than 76 has to shred barriers.
Soldier needs to get nerfed too.
05/20/2017 09:58 AMPosted by SlayerAdam
05/20/2017 09:57 AMPosted by Dysvalence
Something other than 76 has to shred barriers.
Soldier needs to get nerfed too.


imo everything else needs a buff, I'm scared of barrierwatch+sombra every game
05/20/2017 10:00 AMPosted by Dysvalence
05/20/2017 09:58 AMPosted by SlayerAdam
...Soldier needs to get nerfed too.


imo everything else needs a buff, I'm scared of barrierwatch+sombra every game
That would lead to a massive power creep.
If you don't expect Soldier and Roadhog to be the standard, then you need much fewer changes, with much less opportunities to !@#$ up.
Before anyone makes any "balance" suggestion saying "remove this from this hero", try it out in-game yourself first. Play a dozen or so games as Roadhog and never use his right click, then you'll see why he has it. If you think he shouldn't have a heal, try not using it. If you think he shouldn't be able to shoot after hooking, try not doing that. Just unbind the key if you need to.
05/20/2017 09:57 AMPosted by OldWouglas
To be fair, he is not even in pro play anymore, and is just an ult sponge.


He's basically not in pro play anymore because the emergence of D.va, you need a D.va to contest high ground and more importantly to negate Soldier or Pharah as much as possible. Tracer is the most played dps in pro play right now, pro Tracer players hard counter Roadhog immensely by straight killing them or farming a entire ult to throw onto their supports/Rein.
05/20/2017 10:06 AMPosted by Leetri
Before anyone makes any "balance" suggestion saying "remove this from this hero", try it out in-game yourself first. Play a dozen or so games as Roadhog and never use his right click, then you'll see why he has it. If you think he shouldn't have a heal, try not using it. If you think he shouldn't be able to shoot after hooking, try not doing that. Just unbind the key if you need to.
If I don't use my right click, it's just like playing Reaper!
It blows my mind that blizzard hasn't changed roadhog in a year of this game being out. Granted, they tried to but then were scared when doing so.

Something has to give...

1. His alt fire removed
2. Hook combo instakill removed
3. Instakill without hook removed
4. Penalties associated with missing hook in general
5. His health pool / self heal

Come on Blizzard what is the deal here... pick one already.

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