...Mmr

Competitive Discussion
So I just read from a developer that there is indeed a separate mmr used for matchmaking despite the presence of sr. I never understood what Blizzard are trying to accomplish by displaying anything else but what is used for matchmaking and truly measures your skill, or is supposed to anyway. So what's the point of having sr with mmr?
Hello friend:

Because a competitive mode where you can't point to a number that ranks you relative to your peers would be a pretty odd definition of competitive mode.
06/06/2017 07:37 AMPosted by Bobby
So what's the point of having sr with mmr?

SR = CR = Current Rating.

MMR = Match Making Rating = The rating that you're placed into based on your personal performance within the last xxx amount of games, etc. There used to be several other variables like win streaks, etc.. But people complained about them like children and Blizzard dumbed most of it down for them. Again...
Speaking of dumbed down, friends, let's start by understanding that sr and mmr are very similar numbers.
Best way to describe the two is that MMR represents potential and that SR is your current position. SR is much more stable where MMR is more dynamic.

MMR is based on your skill and goes up with wins and down on losses. It increases and decreases much more quickly then SR and the amount is relative to your contribution to a match. If you over perform in relation to other players at your rank with the heros you played and win your MMR will go up. The opposite is true if you underperform and lose.

SR chases your MMR and if you over perform and win continuously the SR will begin to move towards the MMR at an accelerated pace. If you are placed at an appropriate skill level you will have a stable win/loss ratio. If you improve you will get more SR for wins then a loss and you will climb at a stable pace.

The design concept is that the system will move you to where you will be playing with players that better match your mechanical skill so the games are well matched. This is why a Grandmaster smurf will climb quickly back to their rank because they get a higher MMR by over performing.

Now this system watches your contribution to the match so in order to increase your MMR you first have to win and then maximize your contribution. The metrics that the system use to determine this are unknown but the on fire system is a feedback metric that was put into the game so the player can measure their contribution.

The matchmaker will also try to use your SR and possibly your MMR to help make a match that is as close as possible to a 50/50 split. The method that this is calculated is unknown to the players. However you can see what the ratio of who is more favoured by comparing the team SR values at the beginning of the match. This also has an effect on SR gain/loss.

In short every thing that is hidden from the player is used for internal calculations and if it was exposed it could possibly be abused. All you really need to know is you have to both win a match and maximize your contribution to that win in order to increase SR.
Are you pulling this out of your !@# or is this the way Blizzard describes it? Sounds unlikely to me. Even in OW individual contribution is far distant to game outcome and I see no reason why it would go into one number but not the other. Sounds like a wishful fallacy to me to think that mmr, the number that matters and is used for matchmaking, is based on individual performance. In all likelihood it isn't.

Has Blizzard stated what the difference between mmr and sr is? You tell me "all you really need to know" when your take on this is rather ridiculous. It seems to me you could use to actually know something too. I'm just wondering why they are using a second number. I know in Heroes of the Storm it was rather dumb.
SR is your actual skill and MMR is a carrier to get you to that SR. If you perform well individually, regardless of win or loss, your MMR will be high. Then you will gain a lot of SR on a win and lose little SR on a loss. This is designed to help you climb. Works other way around, too, to derank high SR folks who do not actually have skill to be up there.

I don't know if this can be explained in any more simpler terms, yet people keep asking this same thing every day.
06/06/2017 09:03 AMPosted by Bobby

I'm just wondering why they are using a second number.


You sounded some what intelligent, so I didn't think we'd have to break it down for you, like we have in several other posts. Do your research if you're curious on something instead of making another post, and then stating that you just don't think that's how it works.

Anywaysssss

I already told you the basics in my post above, so you should be up to speed so far.

There is also a Hidden MMR which is based upon your entire play time, then your regular MMR for the season, and then your SR.


MMR is based on your skill and goes up with wins and down on losses. It increases and decreases much more quickly then SR and the amount is relative to your contribution to a match. If you over perform in relation to other players at your rank with the heros you played and win your MMR will go up. The opposite is true if you underperform and lose.


This is 100% true. Blizzard uses the same system they do on World of Warcraft for your MMR and Hidden MMR, just scaled a little differnetly. MMR will fluctuate much quicker to ensure you get to where you "belong".

Now, this used to work better when there was winning/losing streaks, but some childish people started complaining about winning/losing streaks so they removed that from their equasion.

So, long story short, they use a second and a third number to make sure you end up where you belong much quicker because people complained about win/lose streaks, and now they're complaining about getting paired with crappy team mates.
06/06/2017 09:49 AMPosted by Kogan
SR is your actual skill and MMR is a carrier to get you to that SR. If you perform well individually, regardless of win or loss, your MMR will be high. Then you will gain a lot of SR on a win and lose little SR on a loss. This is designed to help you climb. Works other way around, too, to derank high SR folks who do not actually have skill to be up there.

I don't know if this can be explained in any more simpler terms, yet people keep asking this same thing every day.


This is nonsense as well. There is no need for a second "carrier" in an elo system. I hope someone with a little more sense could respond. If no one knows or has any good ideas I can't help but wonder what Blizzard are thinking.

06/06/2017 09:49 AMPosted by Kogan
If you perform well individually, regardless of win or loss, your MMR will be high.


This should be egregiously incorrect. Also, considering you never get sr for a loss and you don't gain more sr after losing (you only get more after sustained winning, in fact) despite performing well in losing indicates just how clueless posters are.

Let's try to change the approach. Can anyone point me to a Blizzard communication explaining why there are separate mmr and sr?
I raise one question that's somewhat related. If MMR tracks your individual performance and factors that into it's calculations (to what degree I have no idea) wouldn't that mean that losses due to people leaving the match could indirectly inflate your MMR? I, like many people, like to pretend that I am the super awesome best player on my team. If someone rage quits on my team (basically guaranteeing a loss) but I continue to perform at regular levels wouldn't that mean that my MMR and SR will slowly drift apart? Assuming yes, I could end up in Silver with an MMR relative to a platinum player. Then from there I will be likely try to be paired with others who have plat skill in silver tier. this would cause longer queue times (due to further playerbase segregation) and really weird SR swings. That is of course assuming I can complete literally any game without someone on my team leaving.

Please note, I use me as an example. Odds are that I'm actually a pretty terrible player. If I was good but lost matches due to player drops though wouldn't that mean this system will cause weird matchmaking results?
06/06/2017 09:49 AMPosted by Kogan
SR is your actual skill and MMR is a carrier to get you to that SR. If you perform well individually, regardless of win or loss, your MMR will be high. Then you will gain a lot of SR on a win and lose little SR on a loss. This is designed to help you climb. Works other way around, too, to derank high SR folks who do not actually have skill to be up there.

I don't know if this can be explained in any more simpler terms, yet people keep asking this same thing every day.
Not true at all...Far from the truth as a matter of fact.
Sometimes I wish this forum was as savage as a car forum. USE THE SEARCH BUTTON. Good lord this topic has been discussed ad nauseum.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/search?q=mmr+sr&forum=22813934
I don't care for a discussion or threads ad nauseam. There should be a concise answer. Saves me the time to look through all those irrelevant threads the search yielded.
06/06/2017 09:24 PMPosted by Bobby
I don't care for a discussion or threads ad nauseam. There should be a concise answer. Saves me the time to look through all those irrelevant threads the search yielded.


I'd be happy to type you out a long winded response, but it's already been done, by me and others. Feel free to sift.

You can't expect people to waste their time repeating themselves when you can just as easily spend 5 minutes searching for your answer.

pro tip: You can actually use GOOGLE to search the forums. XXXXXX site:us.battle.net/xxxxx

Keep up the bogus complaining that your time needs saving.

This took me less than 30 seconds of searching. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20745504371
06/06/2017 02:44 PMPosted by Bobby
06/06/2017 09:49 AMPosted by Kogan
SR is your actual skill and MMR is a carrier to get you to that SR. If you perform well individually, regardless of win or loss, your MMR will be high. Then you will gain a lot of SR on a win and lose little SR on a loss. This is designed to help you climb. Works other way around, too, to derank high SR folks who do not actually have skill to be up there.

I don't know if this can be explained in any more simpler terms, yet people keep asking this same thing every day.


This is nonsense as well. There is no need for a second "carrier" in an elo system. I hope someone with a little more sense could respond. If no one knows or has any good ideas I can't help but wonder what Blizzard are thinking.

06/06/2017 09:49 AMPosted by Kogan
If you perform well individually, regardless of win or loss, your MMR will be high.


This should be egregiously incorrect. Also, considering you never get sr for a loss and you don't gain more sr after losing (you only get more after sustained winning, in fact) despite performing well in losing indicates just how clueless posters are.

Let's try to change the approach. Can anyone point me to a Blizzard communication explaining why there are separate mmr and sr?


Impressive attitude. I merely told you my experience. I do not win many games, but i consistently gain 30ish SR on win and lose 10ish SR on a loss. Anyways, from JK:

'At no point in MMR calculations do we look at your win/loss ratio and win/loss ratio is never used to determine who to match you with or against'
06/07/2017 05:35 AMPosted by prophet
This took me less than 30 seconds of searching. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20745504371


Skimming that post confirmed what I thought about mmr and contradicts what you clowns have been posting. So my question remains, why is there more than one thing?
I've always thought of MMR as a modifier relative to your rank, not a hidden rank.
06/07/2017 10:11 AMPosted by Bobby
06/07/2017 05:35 AMPosted by prophet
This took me less than 30 seconds of searching. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20745504371


Skimming that post confirmed what I thought about mmr and contradicts what you clowns have been posting. So my question remains, why is there more than one thing?

Skimming? How about reading the whole thing including where Jeff said clearly that he's leaving how complex the system is and just touching on a few basic things that the MMR system takes into consideration.

Jesus man, we tell you exactly how it works and you sit here and down-vote and criticize by calling people "clowns". We've answered your question, plain and simple.
I suggest you not only read both of those posts but think about them too. The quote you refer to doesn't excuse your ignorance, not to mention how laughable your contradiction between your interpretation of that quote and "we tell you exactly how it works" is. Feel free to stop posting in this thread.
06/07/2017 10:24 AMPosted by Bobby
I suggest you not only read both of those posts but think about them too. The quote you refer to doesn't excuse your ignorance, not to mention how laughable your contradiction between your interpretation of that quote and "we tell you exactly how it works" is. Feel free to stop posting in this thread.

Ignorance? Dammit man.. Not really discussing ignorance since you're calling people clowns on the forums that gave you an accurate answer, not to mention ignorantly down-voting their posts as well. Are we? Nah, ok.. perfect.

You asked a question.
It was answered.
You declined the accurate answer and called people clowns.
Someone called you out on your ignorance.
Now you'll get all butt hurt and upset.

You're just like every other child on the forums here, you're nothing special bro.

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