The Roadhog nerf is completely unnecessary.

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06/12/2017 05:38 PMPosted by Kende
i agree, this nerf is completely uncalled for. if he was broken he would be a mandatory pick, hes not. in fact he is one of the least picked tanks at higher levels. blizzard is just trying to cater to new players, and new players dont understand the mechanics of baiting/using cover.

im also wondering where they are getting these ideas to implement buffs/nerfs after they go to ptr? the feedback on ptr for this nerf is unanimously against implementing it, while most players agree that roadhog could be adjusted, this is not the answer.


This right here. As another hog main I can agree that he needs to be adjusted slightly, but this change simply turns him into walking ult charge. They have taken the one thing that made him dangerous and that is the ability to pick nearly any 200hp hero and severely damage/kill the other tanks within his clip. He has absolutely zero damage mitigation ability which every other tank has so he must rely on being scary as !@#$ to protect himself. I'm hearing that people are actually charging hogs on the PTR because they want to stay out of his alt fire range and also because they can.

Again hog needs to be adjusted, not taken out behind the building and executed.
06/12/2017 04:37 PMPosted by Cyndikate
Apparently Roadhog is OP because people can't learn to take cover, cut corners to avoid getting hooked. For every 10 hooks thrown at me, I've been hooked 3. Why? Because I actually learn how to play and deal with hog instead of coming on the forums to cry nerfs. Roadhog is not hard to deal with. If he hooks and one shots you with his combo, 9 times out of 10, you effed up.

I don't know why Blizzard feels the need to completely nerf what made Hog what he is because people are too stupid to dodge a simple hook.

And for the record, I don't play Hog. Revert the nerfs and force people to L2P.


"But But Cyndikate! I wanna be able to stand face with a TANK as my DPS character and WIN!!!!!"

Did anyone ever think that Hog was SUPPOSED to be behind enemy lines in the mix as a disruptor/tank? The more confused an disorganized your enemy the easier it is to counter them?
06/12/2017 04:57 PMPosted by Valkrona
I don't think it needs to be said and explained on how many times people have managed to out-play Hog and still die to him.

He was just not balanced and something had to give.


If you die to hog, you didn't outplay him. You made a mistake, and he exploited it.
06/12/2017 04:37 PMPosted by Cyndikate
For every 10 hooks thrown at me, I've been hooked 3. Why? Because I actually learn how to play and deal with hog instead of coming on the forums to cry nerfs.


Actually, its because your main character are Tracer & Widowmaker. Tracer is the most elusive character in the game to hook and Widowmaker is almost always out of hook range cause she is a sniper.

Use your brain before posting stupid stuff. Life lessons 101.
06/12/2017 08:43 PMPosted by Cyndikate
06/12/2017 04:57 PMPosted by Valkrona
I don't think it needs to be said and explained on how many times people have managed to out-play Hog and still die to him.

He was just not balanced and something had to give.


If you die to hog, you didn't outplay him. You made a mistake, and he exploited it.


I mean he did reaper's job significantly better which is why I could almost never play reaper in comp. it was just redundant to play him. I'm still worried as pharah is in almost every game, but the self heal works rather well to help eliminate her team before she can kill you ( if you can get to the them well enough). I think the changes are a tad much, but now hog mains will have to make sure they aren't out of position
06/12/2017 08:43 PMPosted by Cyndikate
06/12/2017 04:57 PMPosted by Valkrona
I don't think it needs to be said and explained on how many times people have managed to out-play Hog and still die to him.

He was just not balanced and something had to give.


If you die to hog, you didn't outplay him. You made a mistake, and he exploited it.


What is that mistake? Trying to fight someone 20 metres away?

Like in 2v1; bait the hook, we're doing damage, oops, one of you died because you were in his LoS. Misplay for trying to take on a Tank who was out of position with 2 people.
No character should be completely unfun to play against. Not just you getting countered on your main, but getting raped by the same character when you're playing almost anyone. That's literally roadhog. Literally 1 shots almost every character in the game with 2 buttons and very little skill required. All you need to know how to do is land a hook and left click at the center. His right click can also 1 shot and for a character that is supposed to be mainly good at close range why is he able to do well at a distance as well.
06/12/2017 05:12 PMPosted by wha092686
As a hog player, I can understand why they're making the decision to nerf him. Hog isn't really a problem for most people; Hog's problem is how he affects the meta.

My guess is that Blizzard wanted to see more people playing Reaper, Mei, Genji, Tracer, and other characters that make the game more exciting to watch (I would imagine that it would be better for E-Sports).

The fact that representatives haven't really commented upon Hog's nerf leads me to believe that the nerf has little to do with "balance issues" and more to do with modifying the game's flavor for reasons important to the company. At this point, there are enough "whiners" out there for Blizzard to let take the blame, so as to not have to really explain to us the real reason, which wouldn't sound very good to us, as it would have nothing to do with improving our gameplay experience.


Hog is fine on live. People can out play him beyond his hook range, and also by using high ground, Mei, cover, etc.

I really don't buy your argument that it's better for e-sports. He has one of the lowest pick rates in the pro because he's a liability in organized team fights. Gutting him won't improve the e-sports scene at all.
06/12/2017 09:09 PMPosted by Uperior
06/12/2017 08:43 PMPosted by Cyndikate
...

If you die to hog, you didn't outplay him. You made a mistake, and he exploited it.


What is that mistake? Trying to fight someone 20 metres away?

Like in 2v1; bait the hook, we're doing damage, oops, one of you died because you were in his LoS. Misplay for trying to take on a Tank who was out of position with 2 people.


Why yes, getting yourself in position to be hooked and not tracking his CDs. I guess hog outplayed you.
I used to have issues with Roadhog, but I'm getting better with headshots, and as McCree, I'm used to hugging corners and baiting the hook now.

I definitely see the argument for nerfing him, but I felt this went a bit far. Isn't there a better way?
06/12/2017 09:33 PMPosted by Cyndikate
06/12/2017 09:09 PMPosted by Uperior
...

What is that mistake? Trying to fight someone 20 metres away?

Like in 2v1; bait the hook, we're doing damage, oops, one of you died because you were in his LoS. Misplay for trying to take on a Tank who was out of position with 2 people.


Why yes, getting yourself in position to be hooked and not tracking his CDs. I guess hog outplayed you.


By your logic, getting out of position as hog and not tracking dps abilities' CDs means that they outplay him, So the hog player would be the one making the mistake and the dps hero in question exploited it.

I am simply using the words you said for live hog vs a dps hero and applying it to the ptr version vs a dps hero. As I said, the changes seem to be a tad much, but we wont know truly know for a few weeks after it goes live.
.. Can you be quiet? You can literally say the same thing with any other hero. ``Oh ana shouldn't be nerfed because people are too stupid to avoid her sleep and her shots, we shouldnt get 2 shoted'' No, its because she's a healer.
Roadhog does need a nerf.
However, taking away the potential of one shotting heroes just makes hog useless, as that is what he is for.
The problem with hog is not so much that he can one shot, as many other heroes in the game can do that (widow, hanzo).
The problem with hog is that it is very Easy to one shot. Currently, you can actully MISS the hitbox of your target and still pull them in (try it on bots if you dont beleive me). That is absolutely ridicuous. A skill this powerful should be difficult to use, not easy.

I personally would prefer if they made the hook harder to land and easier to dodge rather than making it almost useless.
Maybe increasing its travel time and/or reducing its size?
What do you guys think?
Not saying his kill combo should exist, but if his kit is going to be designed around that, that's what he needs to do: be able to pick and kill combo 200hp heroes reliably.

If not, then redesign him into something like Blitzcrank. Or give him actual tank abilities. PTR Hog is definitely the wrong way to go about it. And even if PTR Hog is still "fine" in terms of SoloQ meta, the new RoF is a bizarre change that doesn't fit the character at all.
Sounds like a lot of people here don't know how to counter Roadhog.

And believe me, it happens. It happens in Comp, it happens in Quickplay.

I have close to 110 hours as Hog on QP, couple tens of hours on him in Comp.

He wasn't broken enough to warrant THESE changes, especially after the previous nerf to his hook did a pretty good job of taking away a lot of my successful hooks.

If a Roadhog is steamrolling, it's because:

A) His team is doing a good job of mitigating damage to him
B) He's actually doing well
C) You/your team suck(s)

PTR Hog is the wrong way to go about correcting him.
The only time I found hog annoying is in 1v1 matches in arcade. However in actual team play, just focus him down as a team. If he's wrecking you guys that just means you gotta prioritize him.
best nerf for hog would be do change the hitbox size of the hook itself, not damage output. the hook is the main problem. he will hardly ever 1 shot without his trusty hook
Absolutely ridiculous, after these nerfs, who is gonna want a roadhog on their team as a second or third tank now. His role and damage is going to be !@#$. I'm just gonna laugh at how bad hes going to be after i see him fail to kill a genji and get shredded by a soldier. Basically making him useless.
Ok, do people not think slightly outside of the one-trick wombo-combo? You can take a few fast shots at range (don't forget he shoots faster) — even one shot at a target can be enough — before you do your wombo-combo and gib the target like before. You can get damage boosted by Mercy to have a pretty similar experience to pre-rework Hog (and Mercy players have typically already been doing this for the Hog if he is actually near the team). You can also use the hook to pull enemy players into your team, to be focused.

The changes promotes him to be more of a team player together with his team. His fat belly should at times body block a few shots that would hit the support behind him (or trap poor players in corners). Currently, he's usually off on his own somewhere, being ridiculously self-reliant with that heal and death-combo. Can you still play him like that? Yes, of course. As I opened with, you just need to shoot a little first.
[..] cut corners to avoid getting hooked. [..]


That's really good advice and whatnot, however he can still hook you through walls and !@#$. Let them fix that and we can chat again.

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