Symmetra does NOT need a nerf.

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06/23/2017 03:33 AMPosted by Lumine
Hello everyone,
I'd like to speak as a Sym main and respond to all people who thinks she's insanely OP. NO she is not OP. She is a 'support' hero that CAN'T heal and people often pick on me for playing her because she's not viable, and now the same people here are complaining about how OP she is. Make up your damn mind!

First of all, like every other hero you need skill to use her full potential, you're basically a low health winston who has to be very careful while running into enemy range because ANYONE can counter you. Also turrets are really easy to destroy, people don't even need to aim at them most of the times, a Winston jump can destroy all your turrets at once. Also, since most people are now aware of the potential TP hide spots, it's very easy to locate her TP and Shield generator. Is she a support? Well, her shield is rarely useful, her TP is very easy to locate and she can't heal, I'd say she's support/defense maybe even DPS/support. You guys ask her to get nerfed damage wise, there's literally nothing else to do for her, if she gets a damage nerf. Like any other hero, don't underestimate her and try to counter her instead of taking her as a joke and run into her range and then cry like a baby when you die. Also she's very viable on attack when played right. In short, She does not need a nerf, she's fine.


Before I continue: She doesn't need a nerf, she needs a redesign.

I'd like to speak as a Sym main and respond to all people who thinks she's insanely OP.


Providing bias isn't a way to insightful discussion. I would never say that Solider, Mcree, or Tracer need X balance change because they're my main heroes and I'm already biased about them.

She is a 'support' hero that CAN'T heal


A hero's class has nothing to do with their balance. Although I will say that she's definitely a defense character. She's not a support in any real way outside of her ults. She's about area control... kinda like a guy I know that fires grenades and is in the support class. hmmmm.

people often pick on me for playing her because she's not viable


Well, ignore their complaints, because the only time she's not viable is when you use Sheild Gen instead of tele.

like every other hero you need skill to use her full potential


Walking around while holding left click isn't skill. She requires decent positioning, but if you have poor game sense/positioning you're not leaving silver anyway.

ou're basically a low health winston


With double the DPS, a ranged attack, and a better ultimate. This is a horrible argument.

who has to be very careful while running into enemy range because ANYONE can counter you.


If a character has no CC, you will beat them short of them being lucky or deathly accurate with Mcree. I don't think you understand how hard it is to fight a symmetra mano a mano. You will lose. The main problem is that her hitbox is too small and her left click requires no input at all. If it's charged up all the way your victim won't be able to react in time. Her shield also gives license to move up.

Also turrets are really easy to destroy, people don't even need to aim at them most of the times


They still provide a slow, a distraction, and high damage output if 3 or more go unattended in favor of more important targets.

Also, since most people are now aware of the potential TP hide spots, it's very easy to locate her TP and Shield generator.


If your team's TP dies, it's your entire team's fault. Yes, knowing where it is is easy, getting there and killing it without dying is another story. It has more health than 18 out of the 24 current heroes and all of it is shielding which regenerates spare for 50.

Is she a support? Well, her shield is rarely useful, her TP is very easy to locate and she can't heal, I'd say she's support/defense maybe even DPS/support.


Is she support or DPS?

06/23/2017 03:33 AMPosted by Lumine
Make up your damn mind!


On a more serious note, she's a dps with a shield and a support ult. She makes zero sense in design terms.

you guys ask her to get nerfed damage wise, there's literally nothing else to do for her, if she gets a damage nerf.


Most people just want playing her not being a brainless, effortless experience. There's basically zero skill involved in playing her outside of basics that everyone above silver has under their belt.

Like any other hero, don't underestimate her and try to counter her instead of taking her as a joke and run into her range and then cry like a baby when you die.


Almost everyone who says she's overpowered (myself included) do everything in our power to stay away from her. Sometimes, it's her or a hard place, and we have no choice but to succumb to a hero that does 120 DPS and is harder to hit than an cheetah on speed.

She does not need a nerf, she's fine.


You never gave us a real reason why. You were stating the incorrect, debatable, or the obvious.
06/23/2017 06:29 AMPosted by SkyLogical
06/23/2017 06:01 AMPosted by Icejob
...

I think we should nerf paper because it covers rock. The reason the winrate is so high is because she is used on Def 90% of the time, which skews the results of a hero. That's like saying you should nerf rein shield because it can take more damage than tracer. Picking the right tool for the job doesn't mean its broken or OP, it means you're making a smart choice.

Of course you downvoted me, but didn't answer even to half of my arguments. About what you said, you're wrong. Why then torbjorn or bastion don't have such unhealthy winrate? Because they are not so stupidly OP? And i see much more symmetras on koths these days, or syms on attack, than torbs or bastion. And they do all the bs they do the same way.


I didn't downvote you first of all, second, the rest of your argument can be summed up in the first sentence.
I wouldn't mind seeing a shift in power from her primary fire to her turrets. Her primary fire feels really strong while her turrets feel weak. I completely melt everybody on point but they just walk right through my turret nests like nothing. They get destroyed so fast I can barely keep up. The problem is they're not hardy enough but maybe to compensate for that they need to do more damage so people aren't so brave as to just walk in and kill them all.
06/23/2017 03:33 AMPosted by Lumine

First of all, like every other hero you need skill to use her full potential


This is the same for all other heroes as well, so no argument in favor for Symmetra at all. It would be an argument if her skill ceiling would be really high, like say Genji.

You guys ask her to get nerfed damage wise, there's literally nothing else to do for her, if she gets a damage nerf. Like any other hero, don't underestimate her and try to counter her instead of taking her as a joke and run into her range and then cry like a baby when you die. Also she's very viable on attack when played right. In short, She does not need a nerf, she's fine.


No other hero I am away about has the ability to place six mini turrets, which do 25 DPS each and slow down the enemy as well, so when she lures the enemy into her little room of death the DPS drastically increases.

This, and then there's the trouble about her left click, this little autoaiming beam of death. This needs no skill whatsoever to be used, since the game does the aiming all for you, how convenient.

Then there's this ridiculous range of it, 10 meters, the fact it's auto lockon and the increasing amount of DPS it deals, which burns a normal hero to death in about 2 seconds. This is autoaim autolockon damage over time ability something no weapon should be able to do in a team based shooter because it causes imbalances and is not fun to play against at all, add to this her small hitbox and that of course she'll be jumping around you like a madwoman posessed by Trump's spirit.

Even a Lucio cannot outrun it with speed boost.

So of course this weapon needs a nerf, period.

And talking about viability, there I don't care if she's viable after that or not, it's just a plain annoyance which needs to be resolved.

So you want to nerf a Hero just to resolve her annoyingness? I don't quite agree on that. Instead of saying maybe a resolved rework, you just want her to be less useful when she's barely useful in higher plays at all.
I have a strong disliking for all characters which don't require any form of aim (Winston/Symmetra). They just lead to an audacious play-style where the player runs towards people holding down their left click button. This takes zero skill and smacks of desperation. And if they get a kill they didn't even earn it.

I would prefer if these types of weapons were re-worked to require some element of skill. EVen if it meant increasing the damage to compensate.
06/23/2017 03:33 AMPosted by Lumine
Hello everyone,
I'd like to speak as a Sym main and respond to all people who thinks she's insanely OP. NO she is not OP. She is a 'support' hero that CAN'T heal and people often pick on me for playing her because she's not viable, and now the same people here are complaining about how OP she is. Make up your damn mind!

First of all, like every other hero you need skill to use her full potential, you're basically a low health winston who has to be very careful while running into enemy range because ANYONE can counter you. Also turrets are really easy to destroy, people don't even need to aim at them most of the times, a Winston jump can destroy all your turrets at once. Also, since most people are now aware of the potential TP hide spots, it's very easy to locate her TP and Shield generator. Is she a support? Well, her shield is rarely useful, her TP is very easy to locate and she can't heal, I'd say she's support/defense maybe even DPS/support. You guys ask her to get nerfed damage wise, there's literally nothing else to do for her, if she gets a damage nerf. Like any other hero, don't underestimate her and try to counter her instead of taking her as a joke and run into her range and then cry like a baby when you die. Also she's very viable on attack when played right. In short, She does not need a nerf, she's fine.


Before I continue: She doesn't need a nerf, she needs a redesign.

I'd like to speak as a Sym main and respond to all people who thinks she's insanely OP.


Providing bias isn't a way to insightful discussion. I would never say that Solider, Mcree, or Tracer need X balance change because they're my main heroes and I'm already biased about them.

She is a 'support' hero that CAN'T heal


A hero's class has nothing to do with their balance. Although I will say that she's definitely a defense character. She's not a support in any real way outside of her ults. She's about area control... kinda like a guy I know that fires grenades and is in the support class. hmmmm.

people often pick on me for playing her because she's not viable


Well, ignore their complaints, because the only time she's not viable is when you use Sheild Gen instead of tele.

like every other hero you need skill to use her full potential


Walking around while holding left click isn't skill. She requires decent positioning, but if you have poor game sense/positioning you're not leaving silver anyway.

ou're basically a low health winston


With double the DPS, a ranged attack, and a better ultimate. This is a horrible argument.

who has to be very careful while running into enemy range because ANYONE can counter you.


If a character has no CC, you will beat them short of them being lucky or deathly accurate with Mcree. I don't think you understand how hard it is to fight a symmetra mano a mano. You will lose. The main problem is that her hitbox is too small and her left click requires no input at all. If it's charged up all the way your victim won't be able to react in time. Her shield also gives license to move up.

Also turrets are really easy to destroy, people don't even need to aim at them most of the times


They still provide a slow, a distraction, and high damage output if 3 or more go unattended in favor of more important targets.

Also, since most people are now aware of the potential TP hide spots, it's very easy to locate her TP and Shield generator.


If your team's TP dies, it's your entire team's fault. Yes, knowing where it is is easy, getting there and killing it without dying is another story. It has more health than 18 out of the 24 current heroes and all of it is shielding which regenerates spare for 50.

Is she a support? Well, her shield is rarely useful, her TP is very easy to locate and she can't heal, I'd say she's support/defense maybe even DPS/support.


Is she support or DPS?

06/23/2017 03:33 AMPosted by Lumine
Make up your damn mind!


On a more serious note, she's a dps with a shield and a support ult. She makes zero sense in design terms.

you guys ask her to get nerfed damage wise, there's literally nothing else to do for her, if she gets a damage nerf.


Most people just want playing her not being a brainless, effortless experience. There's basically zero skill involved in playing her outside of basics that everyone above silver has under their belt.

Like any other hero, don't underestimate her and try to counter her instead of taking her as a joke and run into her range and then cry like a baby when you die.


Almost everyone who says she's overpowered (myself included) do everything in our power to stay away from her. Sometimes, it's her or a hard place, and we have no choice but to succumb to a hero that does 120 DPS and is harder to hit than an cheetah on speed.

She does not need a nerf, she's fine.


You never gave us a real reason why. You were stating the incorrect, debatable, or the obvious.

I agree that she needs a redesign, she however has no types of mobility, a now or never attack since if you latch on, there's no coming back. Compare her hitbox to Tracer then we'll see.
Symmetra only needs one thing: A voice line saying: "Life is like a box of chocolates"
Check out her win rate on overbuff https://www.overbuff.com/heroes

She has the top win rate in comp at every level. She tops 60% in diamond, masters, and GM.
06/23/2017 07:00 AMPosted by hellobg

So you want to nerf a Hero just to resolve her annoyingness? I don't quite agree on that. Instead of saying maybe a resolved rework, you just want her to be less useful when she's barely useful in higher plays at all.


How about telling this Bastion players for a laugh?

I already told why I want her weapon to be nerfed, because it comes down to this:

1. it's a legal aimbot,
2. it's autolock on,
3. therefore takes no skill what so ever go be used at all,
4. taking that into account deals ridiculously amounts of damage and
5. almost nobody can escape it's range, aside Genji and Tracer maybe.

So in short the whole package just screems "NERF ME" in capital letters, because this weapon has nothing to do with the basics of a skill based shooter.
I dont think shes OP and i dont agree with alot of your reasoning for it because not everyone counters her and her shield is F****** amazing

At the same time her beam either needs to have lower snowball potential or be easier to break off when youre caught

Sym+Zarya barrier is fairly frustrating to work around especially when she has a support on her

Not being OP doesnt mean something you have cant be toned down
She really isnt op lol. Most of the people who say she is are like gold or lower
She has a high winrate because people trickle in QP as being the trickle punish queen, and most Sym players don't play her on offense much.

Nothing like Torb and Junk mains that pick them every map and objective.
06/23/2017 08:02 AMPosted by CaptnProton
06/23/2017 07:00 AMPosted by hellobg

So you want to nerf a Hero just to resolve her annoyingness? I don't quite agree on that. Instead of saying maybe a resolved rework, you just want her to be less useful when she's barely useful in higher plays at all.


How about telling this Bastion players for a laugh?

I already told why I want her weapon to be nerfed, because it comes down to this:

1. it's a legal aimbot,
2. it's autolock on,
3. therefore takes no skill what so ever go be used at all,
4. taking that into account deals ridiculously amounts of damage and
5. almost nobody can escape it's range, aside Genji and Tracer maybe.

So in short the whole package just screems "NERF ME" in capital letters, because this weapon has nothing to do with the basics of a skill based shooter.

Play more Symmetra on attack then scream for nerf.
My problem is every Sym i play against isn't playing their "role", they're building their dmg off a tank or ice wall then melting through the healer and then anyone else who isn't looking or can't aim at her, if she sees you by yourself she WILL try to kill you, this is especially frustrating when playing as Ana and missing your sleep dart all because she threw a shield up as she bunny hops around making it near impossible to hit her, She obviously counters Genju, but i got better at dealing with her as Genju, this also may just be me it just feels like he walk speed is faster than most, but that may just be me. The only nerf she really needs is the disconnect range of her beam and the line of sight disconnect.
When people are FLANKING with a support, they need to be toned down just a little.
no !@#$ sherlock
the only nerf she could possibly use the turrets stacking slow, other than that no change at all.

the stacking slow feels very oppresive and not fun to play against, which is the only reason i dont like it, not becuase i think it is too powerful.
I honestly think people who cry about symmetra have room temperature IQs. Nothing about her needs a nerf. If you cant deal with her then that is 100% on you and your poor play. Nothing else
06/23/2017 05:33 AMPosted by nagisasama
Somehow making her skill ceiling higher when she's using laser would also be nice.


Basically this right here. As a whole Sym isn't all that great. Her ability to go full-Rambo in a crowded team fight though is ridiculous. I personally advocate for a fast dechannelling (unchannelling?) time. The fact that you hold full channel strength after a reload or missing a lot seems really odd. that also means there is almost no punishment for taping down your primary fire button.

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