The importance of the capability to solo carry.

Competitive Discussion
Solo queue is a nightmare right now, and I think most people can agree with as many posts around as it is. And part of the reason of this I'm convinced, is the inability to solo carry more often then not.

Let me explain. Overwatch has shown me the importance of being able to carry a team on your shoulders when need be, that if you have the skill to do so you should be able to rise in rank on your own.

Overwatch doesn't have that well not really, in order to solo carry your skill has to be astronomically higher Like if your are a grandmaster in a silver game then yeah you can solo carry most likely but a grandmaster in a diamond you can't 1v6 a team willing to work together, and that's assuming you're a dps main or...I'll even be nice and say you can get up there if you are a really good d.va/zarya.

But lord help you if you are a support main, because you are basically at the whim of the temperament of your team unless you know how to hide well with mercy to get those big rez's off.

Basically whether you rise in rank is based not on your skill as an individual, but on your ability to pull your team together and work with them. Which is both this games greatest strength and weakness. Because let's be real here some people you just don't wanna work with....like at all for whatever reason.

So as it stands right now, SR doesn't necessarily indicate how skilled you are but rather how well you are willing to work with others, in a way making overwatch into more of a Social Shooter then a competitive one. Because more often then not, Whether you win or lose depends entirely on how comparable you are with the people you are paired up with.

Hell even stylosa has admitted to this, and if people won't listen to me they will probably listen to him.

Now how to fix this? Well honestly one of the biggest problems seems to be with people getting paired with 3 genji mains, or 3 mercy mains or just something silly so that people aren't playing as well as they could.

And I know that blizzard won't go back to things like how roadhog was so people can carry games on their own, So here's what I would do and I don't know if blizzard is able to do this or is working on it right now. But i would base who you get paired up with based on your 3 most played hero's in ranked solo queue and use the 2/2/2 comp as a base with your most played hero taking priority.

For example If you're a soldier main but you also play Mercy and reinheart, When you queue you will be paired with 1 other person who plays maybe genji and 2 people who play d.va and orisa and another 2 who play lucio and zenyatta. Assuming you all get paired up based on your highest played hero. With it going down the list if you don't get any results right away.

That's just my suggestion.
a lot of people seem to feel this way. I agree with a lot of what you said. We do have to be careful to not force a 2/2/2 meta on anyone though as this results in stagnant game play.

Another way might be to allow players to select their desired role
-Tank
-Support
-DPS
-Flex

Then the match making system would make sure to never put more than 3 of any one type on a team. It's not perfect but it's better than ending up with 5 dps players
OP all you need to is to adapt the definition of "carry". In overwatch, that means you can guarantee solid 60% (or higher) winrate in given ELO just with your presence alone.
In that sense, you can carry, at least on high-impact characters. But to do so, you have to be at least 2 tier's higher than given SR - like, diamonds can carry in gold, masters can carry plat, etc.
Hence, its almost impossible to get stuck more than 1 tier away from your "home" elo, unless you get extremely unlucky.

So as it stands right now, SR doesn't necessarily indicate how skilled you are but rather how well you are willing to work with others

I'm glad at least some people understand that.
And its not a problem, but a core feature of teamplay-based game. You dont gain rank just because you aim well, being useful to the team is almost as important, especially on higher tiers.
You can solo carry in bronze, silver and maybe low gold. But plat and up even the top 500 wont' be able to solo. It only takes one potato on your team to make the teamfight 5v6
07/12/2017 08:21 AMPosted by BOO
OP all you need to is to adapt the definition of "carry". In overwatch, that means you can guarantee solid 60% (or higher) winrate in given ELO just with your presence alone.
In that sense, you can carry, at least on high-impact characters. But to do so, you have to be at least 2 tier's higher than given SR - like, diamonds can carry in gold, masters can carry plat, etc.
Hence, its almost impossible to get stuck more than 1 tier away from your "home" elo, unless you get extremely unlucky.

So as it stands right now, SR doesn't necessarily indicate how skilled you are but rather how well you are willing to work with others

I'm glad at least some people understand that.
And its not a problem, but a core feature of teamplay-based game. You dont gain rank just because you aim well, being useful to the team is almost as important, especially on higher tiers.


But thats what i mentioned earlier, in order to carry in any given tier, you have to be astronomically better then your tier list would indicate. Also what high impact characters would help?
Any self-sustained dps or tank works, with Soldier or pre-nerf Hog being the classic examples.
Its true that there are a lot of players who dont really belong to their ranks (in both positive and negative way), but its usually just a temporary condition due to lucky streaks/boost/etc. Sooner or later you'd get what you deserve.
And if you somehow break your hidden MMR way beyond reason (like i did in season2, when i had serious issues with router and pc stability PLUS caught few 0:10 losestreaks), try starting a fresh new acc.

Just dont be get too delusional with "elo hell is rigged, rank means nothing" stories, they actually keep people from realizing their own shorcomings and progressing further.
07/12/2017 08:47 AMPosted by BOO
Any self-sustained dps or tank works, with Soldier or pre-nerf Hog being the classic examples.
Its true that there are a lot of players who dont really belong to their ranks (in both positive and negative way), but its usually just a temporary condition due to lucky streaks/boost/etc. Sooner or later you'd get what you deserve.
And if you somehow break your hidden MMR way beyond reason (like i did in season2, when i had serious issues with router and pc stability PLUS caught few 0:10 losestreaks), try starting a fresh new acc.

Just dont be get too delusional with "elo hell is rigged, rank means nothing" stories, they actually keep people from realizing their own shorcomings and progressing further.


Self Sustained huh? That would narrow it down to...Genji, Soldier, Tracer, Pharah Reaper, D.va, Winston and Zarya. I'm considering the ability to get out of a bad situation and hastily getting a health pack as self sustain for the sake of expanding.
07/12/2017 08:21 AMPosted by BOO
So as it stands right now, SR doesn't necessarily indicate how skilled you are but rather how well you are willing to work with others

I'm glad at least some people understand that.
And its not a problem, but a core feature of teamplay-based game. You dont gain rank just because you aim well, being useful to the team is almost as important, especially on higher tiers.


On the other hand if someone is performing badly on your team, there's a leaver, thrower or de-ranker (or other such vermin) and you try your absolute best, you're punished too.
07/12/2017 08:21 AMPosted by BOO
...
I'm glad at least some people understand that.
And its not a problem, but a core feature of teamplay-based game. You dont gain rank just because you aim well, being useful to the team is almost as important, especially on higher tiers.


On the other hand if someone is performing badly on your team, there's a leaver, thrower or de-ranker (or other such vermin) and you try your absolute best, you're punished too.


Exactly there is nothing worse then giving your all and getting nothing for it.
The problem is simply you SHOULD-NOT-HAVE-TO play two tiers higher to rank up to average, above average or in the Master tier pocket.

The desire to "carry" shouldn't even be a factor.

Supporting your team should be the ONLY factor.

The game by design is built this way but the practicality of it when the core component fails (teamwork) penalizes players with higher levels of skill and his/her will to contribute.

If you don't believe me, let me join your game at any SR tier and I will Mei wall your argument into oblivion or eat up a healer spot as I laugh maniacally at your SR drop tears.
Had a game last night I went 64 an 16 as reaper a 76 had 54 kills we still lost payload rout 66
07/12/2017 10:10 AMPosted by SoggyBullets
The problem is simply you SHOULD-NOT-HAVE-TO play two tiers higher to rank up to average, above average or in the Master tier pocket.

The desire to "carry" shouldn't even be a factor.

Supporting your team should be the ONLY factor.

The game by design is built this way but the practicality of it when the core component fails (teamwork) penalizes players with higher levels of skill and his/her will to contribute.

If you don't believe me, let me join your game at any SR tier and I will Mei wall your argument into oblivion or eat up a healer spot as I laugh maniacally at your SR drop tears.


Exactly. It's a core design mechanic that is horribly flawed in execution at every place but the highest levels of play.
one of my friends is a top 500 player , who i played with a few times on his smurf account, and my win rate with him on my team was no different. i dont care who you are, you are not carrying in overwatch. Seagull in a bronze match as Pharah could probably pull off a 90% win rate but thats about it.

theres been plenty of times where i have gone 58-4 or so with 4 gold medals and still lost. theres only so much effect one person has on a game of overwatch and thats what i love about it. (except when that one person is a quitter, in that case you are screwed)
This game cannot be solo carried by anyone except players well over 2000SR below their true capabilities - and even then there's an element of luck involved, full stop, end of discussion.
You cannot "solo carry" in this game as in CS or CoD games winning every match by pure mechanical skills.

You absolutely can be such a positive contributing factor that you guarantee very high victory probability outcome. I'm talking about >80% winrate with 1000 SR delta and >60% with 500 SR. In a way, it is carrying.

Still too many factors are in play so climbing speed will vary drastically between cases. It is entirely possible to be "stuck" over prolonged periods of time even if your expected SR is higher than your current.
07/12/2017 11:32 AMPosted by Hartwig
You cannot "solo carry" in this game as in CS or CoD games winning every match by pure mechanical skills.

You absolutely can be such a positive contributing factor that you guarantee very high victory probability outcome. I'm talking about >80% winrate with 1000 SR delta and >60% with 500 SR. In a way, it is carrying.

Still too many factors are in play so climbing speed will vary drastically between cases. It is entirely possible to be "stuck" over prolonged periods of time even if your expected SR is higher than your current.


Agreed. I consider myself high gold and i stomp silver very hard (it's really hard to lose in silver if i use mercy or pharah).

Gold i climb no problems up to 2400, from then on i rely on my team working as a unit in order to progress
07/12/2017 11:32 AMPosted by Hartwig
Still too many factors are in play so climbing speed will vary drastically between cases. It is entirely possible to be "stuck" over prolonged periods of time even if your expected SR is higher than your current.


Yep, like playing during primetime, where blizzard can easily find an imba MMR/SR ratio player that matches yours, or playing in groups where your group average is below 2000SR (hint: you will almost always get higher level+mmr players due to simple law of averages).

I have a nearly 10:1 kda in many heros on my "mostly dps" alt but because I'm in mid gold I can group and rank okay. On this account where I flex 100% of the time - the matchmaker has no idea what to do with me and I meet smurfs one day and brand new 12yo players the next. If I play during prime time I meet others like me who are way too good for the rank they're in, grouped with potatoes. Sometimes we end up together and it's great, we might go on a winstreak for a while, but that's the outlier.

I've started requesting to duo/trio with my similarly imbalanced opponents instead of my teammates an effort to break the matchmaker and reduce the likelihood of it's ability to find another player like me.
07/12/2017 10:45 AMPosted by Guvnuh
one of my friends is a top 500 player , who i played with a few times on his smurf account, and my win rate with him on my team was no different. i dont care who you are, you are not carrying in overwatch. Seagull in a bronze match as Pharah could probably pull off a 90% win rate but thats about it.

theres been plenty of times where i have gone 58-4 or so with 4 gold medals and still lost. theres only so much effect one person has on a game of overwatch and thats what i love about it. (except when that one person is a quitter, in that case you are screwed)


Not really. GMs could carry on about anything. Anak recently completed sombra only run (while streaming) from 1200 to 4000 SR, and 3500+ was the only ELO where his winrate dropped lower than 80%. And in gold or lower, even i (usual diamond) could get a decent winrate with something like Hanzo.
07/12/2017 11:08 AMPosted by Lhun
This game cannot be solo carried by anyone except players well over 2000SR below their true capabilities - and even then there's an element of luck involved, full stop, end of discussion.


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