[ANALYSIS] Doomfist is fun. But is he viable?

General Discussion
When Sombra was announced everyone called her cool, unique, fun and even OP. Everyone was saying that she will shake up team comps.

Even with buffs she ended with one of the lowest win- and pick-rates.

The reason is that chaotic environment of PTR is very bad for judging about hero balance and viability.

Doomfist is fun to play. It's a fact and nobody will deny it. He is fun on PTR and probably will be fan in QP.
But I am not sure about his viability as solid pick for competitive.

Everyone is blinded by his awesome Rocket Punch one-hit-kills and his "incredible" mobility, so they can't see his problem. And there are a plenty of them.

First of all, people should understand that Doomfist is biggest Offence hero in the game right now. He is the tallest of them and his hitbox is close to Zarya (400HP+Barrier). It means that he will receive a lot of damage from heroes with large spread, like Reaper, Torb, Roadhog, Orisa, Bastion, Sombra, Tracer. It also means that he is an easier target for Soldier, Mccree, Hanzo, Widow. And he has only 250HP like other close-range heroes. The difference is that both Reaper and Mei have defense/escape abilities, Reaper hitbox is not so big and Mei hitbox is small, while Doomfist has only his passive, which is not as effective and reliable.

Second problem is that his mobility is not as "incredible" as it seems. Yes, he can cover pretty long distance with his abilities. But length is not as important as in-combat functionality and flexibility. His Slam is very clunky to use without Uppercut, and very slow if used with Uppercut and that makes Doomfist even more vulnerable target. Also, his Rocket Punch requires charging which slows Doomfist and this ability is not very flexible because cannot be aimed vertically - it feels absolutely wrong.

Doomfist does not exist in vacuum, so he will compete with other heroes for DPS slot in the team. He is obviously a dive-oriented hero and also a flanker, so he will compete with mostly with Genji and Tracer at first place. And that is where things become interesting.

Both Genji and Tracer have low HP, but also a very slim hitboxes. They are difficult targets.
Doomfist is very big and has only 250HP which does not fully compensate his size. He is very easy target.

Both Genji and Tracer have a lot of flexible in-combat mobility options. Genji can constantly double-jump and be in the air almost all the time. And can Wall climb. He also has Dash which pierces through enemies and refreshes CD on kill. Tracer has three charges of Blink with very low CD. Also both of them have increased by 10% base movement speed.
Doomfist has three mobility options: Rocket Punch, Uppercut+Slam and Slam from high-ground. Rocket Punch is great for initiation, but not flexible at all in the fight because it requires charge which slowing Doomfist, and can't be aimed vertically, so it can't be used for reaching high-ground or diving from high-ground. Uppercut+Slam has 7sec CD and if you use this combo offensively you waste your only option of escape. Slam from high-ground is very slow and makes Doomfist very vulnerable.

Both Genji and Tracer have self-defense/escape/safe-button abilities. Tracer can simply Recall from tricky situation and refill her ammo and health. Genji has Deflect that can be used both offensively and defensively. He also can refresh his Dash via kill end use it ti escape.
Doomfist can reliably escape only via Uppercut+Slam combo, but in that case you can't use it offensively. The only self-protection of Doomfist is his passive, but in reality it is very weak. It is only effective when you land your ultimate on at least two enemies, so you get 75+75 shield and will have overall of 400HP for some time. But most of the time you will get only 30shield from Rocket Punch, because you will want to keep Uppercut+Slam combo for escape instead of damaging enemies with it.

Both Genji and Tracer can constantly and effectively poke enemies with their weapons.
Doomfist weapon is very limited in all ways and work more like a filler.

Both Genji and Tracer have few counters and almost no hard-counters.
Doomfist is countered by the whole Offence category heroes and hard-countered by half of them.

Both Genji and Tracer are more solid picks because they are more flexible and can get out from tricky situations of something goes wrong.
The only advantage of Doomfist over other flankers is his one-hit-kill potential with Rocket Punch, but it is a very risky move.

So Doomfist needs three things to be viable as solid pick for competitive play:
1) Rocket Punch can be aimed vertically.
2) Slam is less clunky to use and more impactful.
3) Doomfist should get more sustain. Maybe more health. Maybe armor. Maybe a serious buff to his passive. Maybe a new defensive ability.
TL;DR
07/09/2017 05:59 PMPosted by Shamou
TL;DR
read or gtfo, brainlet
Fun, viable, counterable.

For now.
Honestly, I think the biggest buff he needs is to his passive. You needed to do A LOT of damage to get the full 400 health
i think at this point it's too hard to call simply because the PTR is not a good place to test out proper comp and viability of heroes
bump
Very good points. As every new character they need to make a lot of tweaks to make them really viable. But for Doomfist... I dont know, i have your same toughts, it's a weird mix of classes, tanky, flanker, dps... But in what role will he really be "a better choice"?
He can get picks well and do a lot of damage, but unlike Soldier or McCree his damage comes in bursts from his abilities, he cannot sustain fire on a target. Whether this will be a large enough problem for him to not see play remains to be seen.
07/10/2017 04:13 AMPosted by Splenectomy
He can get picks well and do a lot of damage, but unlike Soldier or McCree his damage comes in bursts from his abilities, he cannot sustain fire on a target. Whether this will be a large enough problem for him to not see play remains to be seen.


You should compare Doomfist not with Mccree and Soldier, because they are long- mid- range sharpshooters, they have different role.
Doomfist will compete with flankers like Genji and Tracer for a slot in a Dive-comp.
And in some cases he will compete with Reaper for a slot of tank-buster.
Doomfist is terrible.

They nerfed Hog to give him a fighting chance but he will be stuck in Sombra/Orissa land. Irrelevant after a month live.

He could be part of dive but who you removing for him? He could be used against dive, but he's an easy kill for good Genjis and Tracers.

And blizzard will be too scared to buff him. So yeah, at least you'll see him in quick play and arcade.
I feel that he could potentially have 50 armor instead of health, and that his passive has a cap on 450hp, or he could can get 50 degenerating shields per ability hit.

Or his degenerating shields are replaced with degenerating armor, but gains them at the 30 value per ability hit.

Either way, I just feel like he could use some armor. Remember in his cinematic, when he was fighting against Tracer, he was more-or-less just standing there, trying to time his strikes. All the while, Tracer couldn't do any damage to him (since he probably got the shields when he slammed Genji away), and he was just sitting there tanking it like she's blowing air at him. And I know that lore only partially impacts the game (since if DoomFist was correct to lore on the power scale, he could easily 1v3 Tracer, Genji, and Winston), but I think he could benefit from having some armor to make him stand a chance against a Tracer in terms of health or his passive.

But when we're talking about possibly buffing DF, we have to be aware that this game isn't a 1v1 senario; you have teammates to back you up, help flank or tank, distract, heal or buff, etc. For example, we know DF can counter Dive by removing Winston and D.Va temporarily from the fight, but he's also really good with Dive, since he can go after his own target to get a kill. There are so many comps that could make or break DF, and it's a little early to tell if heal be a monster in Competitive. For example, he is getting the shields, but he'll also be getting healed by a support (although, after watching a little bit of pro-gamers use him in GM and M area play, his shields act like a small buffer, and could probably get an increase on the amount of shields earned and the max cap being raised). But that's just my idea.
i love this hero but I agree. This hero needs some serious rework before it hits live.
only new hero who was good from the start was orisa
ana and sombra were very underpowered
so idk if doomfist will be next orisa or sombra/ana
07/10/2017 04:59 AMPosted by FrostyDog
I feel that he could potentially have 50 armor instead of health, and that his passive has a cap on 450hp, or he could can get 50 degenerating shields per ability hit.

Or his degenerating shields are replaced with degenerating armor, but gains them at the 30 value per ability hit.


When looking on his enormously big model and hitbox I think following changes will work for him:
  • Base HP increased from 250 to 300
  • Max shield decreased from 150 to 100
  • Shield gained per ability increased from 30 to 50
  • His maximum HP+Shield will be same 400, but he he will have more reliable sustain.
    let's go for parts
    Sombra from March 21 Received 2 important buffs in Hack and Translocator skills

    Sombra Pick Rate six months ago was 1.65% now is 1.52%

    I agree that it has a low pick rate, but for a hero who depends on a lot of synchrony of the team, that's one reason for this low percentage (many players play solo and / or duo, Sombra is very efficient in closed teams and KotH maps.

    But if you look at the win rate

    Six months ago, 45.18% (the worst), is now 59.89% (top 10 highest)
    Logic that the higher the pick rate the lower the win rate (in theory), but as the pick rate had a slight fall, and its win fate a huge high. Its viability has become much more effective

    But this post is about Doomfist.
    It really is a lot of fun to play

    You talked about your hitbox and it really is great and also called it easy target, which has a high damage but is easy to receive damage. Does not that remind you of anyone?

    Roadhog, Ok he has mobility while Hog had his health, he has a passive that creates shields the hog had take a breath and both are vulnerable while his abilities are in cooldown (they are not equal, just alike)

    Ok they have many similarities and differences, but the way of playing is the same. Think, if you flank it, you have a huge risk, but a huge reward (Kill or die)

    Or you can play around your team in a safer way as a bodyguard. It does not have a safer way of flanking because it is not flanquer, it can, but someone with high damage must have a high vulnerability.
    I think comparing him to Genji and tracer is common because of his mobility, but I do not think it's correct.

    About playing against other DPS, good to see are 6 heroes that you have to choose between 24, and how it will be depends on the team / team enemy / Map

    He is in the right position, with the right combo he becomes the most effective choke point breaker, High damage that ignores shields and barriers (DM) only the Zarya bubble holds, but has the knockback. With the help of the team le becomes a very solid choice.

    1) uppercut, would be a dublicated ability, and Doomfist is very dependent on the Rocket Punch
    2) there is still much to learn
    3) A buff on passive and I would say I could get a 2s nerf on the Rocket Punch, But it's too early to say that. He's on the PTR and a lot can change. Only after playing in the competitive to be more certain.

    I could speak more detailed about the post, but my answer is already huge and remembering, this is my opinion does not mean that it is absolute truth and may be different from yours and others and even be wrong, but it is based on what I think subject matter
    good points. but unlike tracer and genji, doomfist is 100% dps. he doesn't have any defense ability to lower his damage. which means you can think of him as a glass cannon. with most glass cannon type of characters, if you push the damage far enough, you can get things done.

    burst is strong in this game and doomfist has that in spades. he has two defenses despite being 100% dps, his displacement around the battlefield, and his passive. to survive long enough to do much of anything, he's going to need to be in the fray building up his shield.

    since doomfist is all about that damage, it's possible that you could cut genji and tracer and doomfist himself would be sufficient. the doomfist would need to be really good of course to compensate. in those two place you could add more heroes that synergize with doomfist.

    so i do think doomfist will eventually have a place in the meta because of his high burst damage. i like how blizzard balanced him thanks to his hitbox size and tricky way to fight. time will tell how he fares.

    tl;dr don't' let doomfist punch you.
    I think he'll be viable, but not dominant by any means. I don't even feel like he's bad, just that he has a lot of competition between Genji and Tracer.

    I feel the biggest factor is going to be how consistent someone can be at getting picks with Rocket Punch. His viability may vary largely based on the map. Uppercut and Slam just feel like positioning tools atm. His ult also sets him apart from the other two. Meteor Strike is far more reactable, and is going to require a combo for most of the time, but the current "meta" doesn't really have much set ups.

    Time will tell for sure. I don't feel he'll a dominant threat out the gate, but I don't think he'll be awful.

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