[SUGGESTION] How to balance Roadhog to make everyone happy

General Discussion
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Highly Rated
I agree that everyone hates when they are killed instantly. But hook combo is not exclusive. Everyone hates to be killed by sniper headshot, but it is not a reason to completely remove headshots and/or snipers from the game. Everyone hates to be booped to death from the map edges by Lucio or Pharah, but it is not a reason to completely remove knockback abilities from the game. So why lethal hook-combo deserved to be removed?

I think instant kill is not a problems by itself. But it is a problem if this instant kill has no counters. Good design is when players have tools to solve their problems by themselves. Player killed by sniper once will blame the sniper. Player killed by sniper twice will blame the game. Player killed by sniper thrice will search for ways to prevent this to happen again and will discover that, for example, hiding behind Rein shield is not so bad idea at all.
The same with hook. It is not about how powerful is one-shot combo. But it is about balance between how hard to land this combo and how hard to avoid it. One-shot hook combo has a lot of ways to avoid, but for some reason it is not enough for players. So maybe it is better to think how to make this one-shot combo to be harder to land rather than removing it entirely?

So how to balance Roadhog with this idea in mind?
At first, revert previous nerfs. They will not be needed.
And then, add a delay on hook. After taping Shift Roadhog starts to spin his chain for 1 or maybe even 1.5 second (numbers should be tested and adjusted if needed) and only after that he will throw his hook. This delay should be done with new animation and loud spinning chain noise - this will work as visual and sound alarm for enemies.
This change will give players time to react and prevent being hooked. So if you react and avoid hook - you deserve to live. If Roadhog hooks you - he deserves to reliably one-shot you if you are not a tank hero.

This is ideal solution. Roadhog will remain his role and core combo while other players will have a way to counter hook by reaction.

Update
You still can move (maybe slower) and aim while spinning chain so you still can catch moving targets.
Also with this change you can scare enemy flanker like "Oh, this noise means it is not good idea to flank here".
Roadhog can even mumble something like "come here, come here, little piggy" while spinning chain. It will add some maniac-murderer vibe which is fair lore-wise.

Update 2
This change is now a part of my Dream Patch Notes! There you can see a lot of theoretical balance changes for a lot of heroes! Upvotes and constructive feedback are welcomed!
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20757626816#post-1

My version of Roadhog Patch Note:

ROADHOG
  • Previous rework is undone
  • Scrapgun - damage slightly decreased, so he reliably one-shot 150-200hp heroes in the range of hook combo, but no longer one-shot 250+hp heroes.
  • Scrapgun RMB - projectile speed of the ball is reduced. The ball no longer explodes on fixed distance. Instead, it explodes manually by second tap of RMB
  • Chain Hook - now has a minimum windup time of 1.25sec (time should be tested and tweaked if needed). Roadhog starts to spin his chain with noticeable animation and loud metal noise on first tap of Shift. After 1.25sec there is UI alarm near crosshair shows that Hook is ready. Second tap on Shift release hook like it worked previously. During spinning Roadhog can aim, shoot and move with reduced speed. Reloading or using other abilities cancels spinning. CD reduced back to 6 second to compensate minimal windup time.
    "Come here, come here, little piggy"
  • Commentary:
      Behind these changes stands the idea that problem of instakills is not in their deadliness, but in balance between how hard to do that instakill and how hard enemy can avoid or counter it. There is a lot of ways to instantly kill the enemy: Widow and Hanzo can headshot, Hanzo can Scatter Arrow, Reinhardt charge, Doomfist Rocket Punch and a lot knockback abilities. But all these instakilling thing requires some skill or special condition and all of they can be countered.
      Roadhog had two ways to do an instakill and both of them was pretty easy to perform and hard to counter.
      Firstly, his RMB is reworked. It is still deadly and potentially can perform a one-shot kill on 200HP hero, but now requires a lot more skill, timing and precision. New detonation mechanic also can slightly slow his fire rate.
      Secondly, his hook is no longer instant and has a windup time. Noticeable animation and loud noise both work as an alarm for enemies to be careful and minimal windup time gives them a moment to react to upcoming threat. This change makes hook-combo fair for both sides. If enemy reacts during windup - he deserves to live. If not - Roadhog deserves to land a hook and instakill enemy if he is a 150-200HP hero.


    P.S. You may also look at my Pharah/Mercy fix suggestion here:
    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20758375890#post-1
    Highly Rated
    I...

    I actually like this idea.
    You took this from a comment and I like it
    Highly Rated
    It comes from a good intention, but this will just make him useless against flankers with high mobility (especially at high rank) which are supposed to be his main targets.

    EDIT: I changed my mind after someone said that he could move doing that.
    I... like the idea :o
    07/07/2017 05:37 PMPosted by Powsen
    It comes from a good intention, but this will just make him useless against flankers with high mobility (especially at high rank) which are supposed to be his main targets.


    You still can move (maybe slower) and aim while spinning so you still can catch moving targets.
    Also with this change you can scare enemy flanker like "Oh, this noise means it is not good idea to flank here".
    07/07/2017 05:37 PMPosted by Powsen
    It comes from a good intention, but this will just make him useless against flankers with high mobility (especially at high rank) which are supposed to be his main targets.
    no more useless than he is now.
    Make him move while winding up and this would be amazing.
    half a second is fine considering how difficult it is to line shots up with mei.
    07/07/2017 05:42 PMPosted by TanukiBancho
    Make him move while winding up and this would be amazing.
    Now that, I could get behind.
    07/07/2017 05:35 PMPosted by Mathenis
    I...

    I actually like this idea.
    07/07/2017 05:42 PMPosted by TanukiBancho
    Make him move while winding up and this would be amazing.


    Already updated op post.
    07/07/2017 05:35 PMPosted by Mathenis
    I...

    I actually like this idea.
    amazing idea, i really like it hope they do something because i love road and they make him literally useless
    I'd be ok with this but only if he gets a ballerina skin with a hot pink tutu and a tiara.
    Please, Geoff, you should try and test it at least! It should work!
    At first, revert previous nerfs. They will not be needed.

    just no. anything that will bring back his alt fire and 1hk is just a NO
    I can understand these changes.

    My main problem is, he would one shot Reaper again, especially since Reaper has to get close.

    I personally like the new Roadhog and have been playing him more.

    I just wish there was a good way to balance him, so he doesn't counter his counters but he's not too weak either.
    Bump, its a good idea.

    Couldn't we at least test it?
    This. A million times this.

    Also I think we need to test what it is like for hooked enemies to attempt to shoot back and I think a good way to balance it is to not automatically turn the hooked enemy's camera right at road. That logic never really made sense that when someone is getting hooked by a giant hook that they slowly and almost instuctually look at him.

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