If you give D. Va her armor and damage back

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07/15/2017 07:04 AMPosted by filitass
...

Again

"As I said I think she can use some help in other areas, but I don't have anything concrete yet. The goal is that she should be a viable aggressive initiation tank, much like Winston can be right now, rather than some sort of beefy flying assassin. So any changes will likely be helping her in that direction. "

Dude there's no reason in argueing with you.
You simply cannot read at all, I even gave you evidence on how Geoff wants D.va to be played.
Play her how you want and go on crying you little whiny kid.
She will stay that way.


I even gave you evidence on how she's supposed to be an agressive initiation tank, but of course only what YOU say matters. Get a grip.
07/15/2017 07:05 AMPosted by BigCheese
They only care about playing one hero and having Blizzard make it exactly how they want.


07/15/2017 07:05 AMPosted by BigCheese
They don't actually want a balanced hero though, let's be real about it.


This.
All they want is the pre-nerf D.va back, the 1v1 godess that could kill everyone in a fight because she outdamaged and outlasted them.
Which is never going to happen again.

07/15/2017 07:06 AMPosted by NerfDVa
agressive initiation tank

SHE IS ONE!
She initiates aggressively with another player she then protects!
She is a TANK!
SHE PROTECTS!
Can you even read role descriptions?
Holy !@#$ing %^-*, how dense can you be?
07/15/2017 07:05 AMPosted by BigCheese
07/15/2017 07:02 AMPosted by EvilLordMrF
No, please. I like the dm, and the actual dva, even in the enemy team...

Dont downvote me, please...


They don't care that she's popular and effective. They don't care about the game as a whole. They only care about playing one hero and having Blizzard make it exactly how they want.

She's the defensive part of the dive, a true dive tank, which is exactly what they asked for. They don't actually want a balanced hero though, let's be real about it.


Whats balanced about a one trick pony who has to solely rely on one ability? Thats balanced? Why not a middleground?
07/15/2017 07:04 AMPosted by filitass
I even gave you evidence on how Geoff wants D.va to be played.
So the bit where he lists an example of what she could do is better proof of what he wants her to do than the bit where he says what he wants her overall purpose to be?

Oh, and I like how you've gone from "I never said that, don't put words into my mouth" to "You just want her to be murdering everything literally every game!"
07/15/2017 07:06 AMPosted by Lucky44
07/15/2017 07:04 AMPosted by filitass
I even gave you evidence on how Geoff wants D.va to be played.
So the bit where he lists an example of what she could do is better proof of what he wants her to do than the bit where he says what he wants her overall purpose to be?

Oh, and I like how you've gone from "I never said that, don't put words into my mouth" to "You just want her to be murdering everything literally every game!"

So you try to tell me that she doesn't initiate aggressively, as a TANK?
What she does is going in with her Winston, diving in aggressively and protecting him from damage.
Which is her JOB as a TANK!

Dude you D.va mains are even worse than Roadhog mains.
All you ever do is cry about how you want your op babygirl back.
Get a grip, she will never return to that state.
I'm out, can't discuss with 12 yrs old weeaboos that lost their go-to waifu.
07/15/2017 07:06 AMPosted by filitass
07/15/2017 07:05 AMPosted by BigCheese
They only care about playing one hero and having Blizzard make it exactly how they want.


07/15/2017 07:05 AMPosted by BigCheese
They don't actually want a balanced hero though, let's be real about it.


This.
All they want is the pre-nerf D.va back, the 1v1 godess that could kill everyone in a fight because she outdamaged and outlasted them.
Which is never going to happen again.

07/15/2017 07:06 AMPosted by NerfDVa
agressive initiation tank

SHE IS ONE!
She initiates aggressively with another player she then protects!
She is a TANK!
SHE PROTECTS!
Can you even read role descriptions?
Holy !@#$ing %^-*, how dense can you be?


But she doesn't, you literally just said, "She protects somebody else initiating"

By the way, don't put "aggressive" and "protect" in the same sentence. They're contradictory.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

And Zarya and Roadhog are more DPS than they are tank, but god forbid D.Va is a offense/tank hybrid like them.


Oh god - you should re-read my post about 200 times until it sinks in.
There are 3 defining characteristics
Health \ Damage \ Mobility.

Road hog and Zarya have Health and Damage - they SERIOUSLY lack mobility.
D.Va has insane mobility , self sustain and health. Which is why she lacks damage.

So god forbid you couldn't figure that one your self.
It is not DM you need to worry about - if you want damage - you have to completely remove her boosters.


D.Va has !@#$ self sustain, she requires heals the most out of those 3 tanks though?

This.
All they want is the pre-nerf D.va back, the 1v1 godess that could kill everyone in a fight because she outdamaged and outlasted them.
Which is never going to happen again.


I don't read? YOU don't read. I want Season 2 D.Va back, way to make yourself look stupid, saying they don't read, yet you don't even do it yourself.

07/15/2017 07:06 AMPosted by filitass
SHE IS ONE!
She initiates aggressively with another player she then protects!
She is a TANK!
SHE PROTECTS!
Can you even read role descriptions?
Holy !@#$ing %^-*, how dense can you be?


Wrong. The other player initiates. D.Va never does. Do you even play in GM games? What you're saying works in like, Bronze, but if you actually play against decent enemies, you're going to be feeding every time you actually try to initiate.

Also, Roadhog is a tank, guess he mainly protects aswell. "Tank" doesn't always mean protect by blocking damage, it can simply mean being able to take a lot of damage, blocking damage is just, not a requirement for being a tank. Winston aswell for example. Not really a tank in the "block damage" way, but rather he distracts the enemy and forces fire on him, while able to take a decent amount of fire, especially with his ult. Literally 80% of his damage blocked is to protect himself, not his team.
07/15/2017 07:09 AMPosted by Dva


But she doesn't, you literally just said, "She protects somebody else initiating"

By the way, don't put "aggressive" and "protect" in the same sentence. They're contradictory.


I think I found the issue. It's a team game and you guys seem to be stuck on 1v1 logic. Dva's defensive power allows for very aggressive moves by the team. Great definition of a dive tank.

You also used to say this current iteration of Dva was very underpowered and nobody would play her at high skill levels, but let's not get hung up on details.
07/15/2017 07:12 AMPosted by BigCheese
07/15/2017 07:09 AMPosted by Dva


But she doesn't, you literally just said, "She protects somebody else initiating"

By the way, don't put "aggressive" and "protect" in the same sentence. They're contradictory.


I think I found the issue. It's a team game and you guys seem to be stuck on 1v1 logic. Dva's defensive power allows for very aggressive moves by the team. Great definition of a dive tank.

You also used to say this current iteration of Dva was very underpowered and nobody would play her at high skill levels, but let's not get hung up on details.


The issue is, she's not what the devs literally described her as.

Also, nobody said that about this current iteration, because a lot of people STILL forget her DM got fixed AND got a huge buff, but nobody ever cares about it and acts like it was always like that, but let's not get hung up on details.
07/15/2017 07:11 AMPosted by NerfDVa
D.Va has !@#$ self sustain, she requires heals the most out of those 3 tanks though?


Her self sustain is her ability to die and recall her Meka at full health. Other tanks die when they die. Also the ability to absorb all damage including ultimates.

Like I said -
Not only do you not realize the 2 tanks you compared to does more damage than her lacks her mobility.

You also failed to realize she doesn't die. She gets a 2nd chance of coming back through Meka recall.

Are the obvious points of balancing completely lost to you?

The issue is, she's not what the devs literally described her as.

Also, nobody said this current iteration, because a lot of people STILL forget her DM got fixed AND got a huge buff, but nobody ever cares about it and acts like it was always like that, but let's not get hung up on details.


No, Dva (the forum user) used to say over and over that this current Dva was trash tier. An embarrassing assessment considering how things turned out.

As to "but the devs said" stuff, I don't know. Picking apart statements seems unproductive as opposed to just looking at the game. Dva is a great dive tank right now in function.
07/15/2017 07:12 AMPosted by BigCheese
Dva's defensive power allows for very aggressive moves by the team. Great definition of a dive tank.

By that argument, are all the healers dive tanks as well? You can pull some pretty aggressive move when you've got 60-80 HPS on you, after all!

Dva is a great dive tank right now though in function.
And all it took was every single counter of hers being nerfed into the ground to get her to that point!

Sure, Winston gets better pickrates without any need for such babysitting and Genji does just fine despite his greatest counter being a borderline must-pick but eh, details.
07/15/2017 07:11 AMPosted by NerfDVa
D.Va has !@#$ self sustain, she requires heals the most out of those 3 tanks though?


Her self sustain is her ability to die and recall her Meka at full health. Other tanks die when they die. Also the ability to absorb all damage including ultimates.

Like I said -
Not only do you not realize the 2 tanks you compared to do that does more damage than her lacks her mobility.

You also failed to realize she doesn't die. She gets a 2nd chance of coming back through Meka recall.

Are the obvious points of balancing completely lost to you?


Oh, that 150 hp no ability projectile weapon form with low damage that any decent player knows how to stagger to the point your respawn is just 3 times as long as it should be? If there was a way to keep her ult without it, I'd gladly give that up with no compensation.

You lose mech at the end of a fight and don't get it back? Well you either go kill yourself to get it back or hope the enemy doesnt initiate on that immediately and win the point because you're basically 5v6. And this happens A LOT.
07/15/2017 07:12 AMPosted by BigCheese
Dva's defensive power allows for very aggressive moves by the team. Great definition of a dive tank.

By that argument, are all the healers dive tanks as well? You can pull some pretty aggressive move when you've got 60-80 HPS on you, after all!


No, they aren't even tanks. Please don't be obtuse.

And all it took was every single counter of hers being nerfed into the ground to get her to that point!


Also incorrect. Dva has been strong for a while, even before some more recent changes.
07/15/2017 07:17 AMPosted by BigCheese

The issue is, she's not what the devs literally described her as.

Also, nobody said this current iteration, because a lot of people STILL forget her DM got fixed AND got a huge buff, but nobody ever cares about it and acts like it was always like that, but let's not get hung up on details.


No, Dva (the forum user) used to say over and over that this current Dva was trash tier. An embarrassing assessment considering how things turned out.

As to "but the devs said" stuff, I don't know. Picking apart statements seems unproductive as opposed to just looking at the game. Dva is a great dive tank right now in function.


Thing is, she's not really a dive tank right now in the way a dive tank should work. She just follows the divers in her team and puts DM over them. That's literally all she does.

07/15/2017 07:19 AMPosted by BigCheese
No, they aren't even tanks. Please don't be obtuse.


Oh, so dive healers, then.


Thing is, she's not really a dive tank right now in the way a dive tank should work. She just follows the divers in her team and puts DM over them. That's literally all she does.


Well, how you think things should work is up to you, but in the end that's arbitrary. She dives using defensive abilities. You can forgive the devs for thinking that's a solid dive tank, because it is.

07/15/2017 07:19 AMPosted by NerfDVa


Oh, so dive healers, then.


Exactly lol. You don't hear that term very often, do you?
07/15/2017 07:17 AMPosted by NerfDVa
Oh, that 150 hp no ability projectile weapon form with low damage that any decent player knows how to stagger to the point your respawn is just 3 times as long as it should be? If there was a way to keep her ult without it, I'd gladly give that up with no compensation.

You lose mech at the end of a fight and don't get it back? Well you either go kill yourself to get it back or hope the enemy doesnt initiate on that immediately and win the point because you're basically 5v6. And this happens A LOT.


The Meka Issue is only a minor one.
You need to give up her mobility.

She still has more Health than Rein.
Like I said -
You can have 2 of 3.

Health \ Mobility \ Damage.
Do you want to Sacrifice her health or her Mobility?
07/15/2017 07:22 AMPosted by BigCheese


Thing is, she's not really a dive tank right now in the way a dive tank should work. She just follows the divers in her team and puts DM over them. That's literally all she does.


Well, how you think things should work is up to you, but in the end that's arbitrary. She dives using defensive abilities. You can forgive the devs for thinking that's a solid dive tank, because it is.


But again, it's just not what devs have literally said D.Va should be. And I'm not even picking apart a statement made by a dev, it's literally what he stated as goal for D.Va, an aggressive initiation tank, like Winston. And she's certainly not aggressive, and certainly doesn't initiate.

07/15/2017 07:24 AMPosted by Shadow
07/15/2017 07:17 AMPosted by NerfDVa
Oh, that 150 hp no ability projectile weapon form with low damage that any decent player knows how to stagger to the point your respawn is just 3 times as long as it should be? If there was a way to keep her ult without it, I'd gladly give that up with no compensation.

You lose mech at the end of a fight and don't get it back? Well you either go kill yourself to get it back or hope the enemy doesnt initiate on that immediately and win the point because you're basically 5v6. And this happens A LOT.


The Meka Issue is only a minor one.
You need to give up her mobility.

She still has more Health than Rein.
Like I said -
You can have 2 of 3.

Health \ Mobility \ Damage.
Do you want to Sacrifice her health or her Mobility?


With her critbox, she basically has half health against anything that can crit.

Also, by your logic, Winston would need a nerf. He has a decent amount of health, especially with his ult, high mobility, and auto-aim-multi-target-cleave that goes through shields for a maximum of 360 dps. That's higher than 100% accuracy with all crits on D.Va. And D.Va doesn't even go through shields.
07/15/2017 07:17 AMPosted by BigCheese

The issue is, she's not what the devs literally described her as.

Also, nobody said this current iteration, because a lot of people STILL forget her DM got fixed AND got a huge buff, but nobody ever cares about it and acts like it was always like that, but let's not get hung up on details.


No, Dva (the forum user) used to say over and over that this current Dva was trash tier. An embarrassing assessment considering how things turned out.

As to "but the devs said" stuff, I don't know. Picking apart statements seems unproductive as opposed to just looking at the game. Dva is a great dive tank right now in function.


Are we forgetting the dive meta's influence? Because with the dive meta in place, her counters arent much used, like Zarya and Mei because they lack mobility. Hence why Dva and Winston are picked more compared to the other tanks.

When dive meta starts to die down and another one comes up that does not revolve around dva or mobility, she'll most likely drop.
07/15/2017 07:17 AMPosted by BigCheese
...

No, Dva (the forum user) used to say over and over that this current Dva was trash tier. An embarrassing assessment considering how things turned out.

As to "but the devs said" stuff, I don't know. Picking apart statements seems unproductive as opposed to just looking at the game. Dva is a great dive tank right now in function.


Are we forgetting the dive meta's influence? Because with the dive meta in place, her counters arent much used, like Zarya and Mei because they lack mobility. Hence why Dva and Winston are picked more compared to the other tanks.

When dive meta starts to die down and another one comes up that does not revolve around dva or mobility, she'll most likely drop.


Perhaps, perhaps not. Reworking based on speculation, especially from a crowd with a dubious track record on balance, seems unwise.

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