How would you change D.Va's D. Matrix?

General Discussion
Reduce uptime to 3s, reduce max recharge accordingly to somewhere around 6-7.5s, leave the 1s recharge delay the same as it is now. Maybe 8s max recharge but that might be too far.

Then, with that reduced power from DM, place it into her core. Tighten the spread on her guns and if that does not make them actually good then add a pellet or something to actually up numerical values after the skill based spread change. Tightened spread makes her better through skilled use and punishes the opposite, something D.Va desperately needs. New DM does the same thing for her skill floor. Also give her 300AR/300HP because having slightly better guns won't be enough to keep her good because she will now get shredded much more due to not having as much DM and she needs to actually have value in her pick in general. Plus she'll actually need to be what she is supposed to be again to be effective, and that's being an aggressive dive tank. Y'know, the thing she always was and the thing she was always intended to be, hence her kit and super cocky personality. Not this passive backline DM bot trash.

And you know what, while we are at it, lets fix her easy stagger garbage with some QoL. Make her eject no longer be automatic. Instead, when the MEKA is doing the death animation, make it so the player has to actually press a key to eject from the MEKA, otherwise they just die when the MEKA blows up completely instead of auto ejecting. It works the same way like how you can use her ult as the MEKA is dying. Again, this raises her skill floor by a decent amount, without increasing her power level as a character, and it actually gives some skilled counterplay to getting staggered because currently there is 0 counterplay for the D.Va player and it can be literally devastating to your team as well as just being extremely frustrating and demoralizing.

I made a longer explanation of this bit here some time ago if anyone is interested in a non TL;DR: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20757686063

Oh also, since we're on QoL, lets have her actually get rezzed in her MEKA form because rez right now just means you get a longer respawn timer and feed the enemy ult charge for free due to just being killed literally immediately due to being a 150 HP 0 mobility 0 ability character upon rez.
Reduce uptime to 3s, reduce max recharge accordingly to somewhere around 6-7.5s, leave the 1s recharge delay the same as it is now. Maybe 8s max recharge but that might be too far.

Then, with that reduced power from DM, place it into her core. Tighten the spread on her guns and if that does not make them actually good then add a pellet or something to actually up numerical values after the skill based spread change. Tightened spread makes her better through skilled use and punishes the opposite, something D.Va desperately needs. New DM does the same thing for her skill floor. Also give her 300AR/300HP because having slightly better guns won't be enough to keep her good because she will now get shredded much more due to not having as much DM and she needs to actually have value in her pick in general. Plus she'll actually need to be what she is supposed to be again to be effective, and that's being an aggressive dive tank. Y'know, the thing she always was and the thing she was always intended to be, hence her kit and super cocky personality. Not this passive backline DM bot trash.

And you know what, while we are at it, lets fix her easy stagger garbage with some QoL. Make her eject no longer be automatic. Instead, when the MEKA is doing the death animation, make it so the player has to actually press a key to eject from the MEKA, otherwise they just die when the MEKA blows up completely instead of auto ejecting. It works the same way like how you can use her ult as the MEKA is dying. Again, this raises her skill floor by a decent amount, without increasing her power level as a character, and it actually gives some skilled counterplay to getting staggered because currently there is 0 counterplay for the D.Va player and it can be literally devastating to your team as well as just being extremely frustrating and demoralizing.

I made a longer explanation of this bit here some time ago if anyone is interested in a non TL;DR: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20757686063

Oh also, since we're on QoL, lets have her actually get rezzed in her MEKA form because rez right now just means you get a longer respawn timer and feed the enemy ult charge for free due to just being killed literally immediately due to being a 150 HP 0 mobility 0 ability character upon rez.


The bolded part is such a good idea. I mean all of your points are super valid and everything. This is why i wanted D.va mains to comment in this thread, cause they know all the nuances to her playstyle. This is such a great post. Thank you for your input.
No, they didn't.
They changed it in the half of the S1 and corrected it during S2 and somehow it doesn't change her into a immortal beast but at least it made her more fun to play.

Problem with non-toggleable DM was that it was mostly useless.
07/16/2017 01:21 AMPosted by KingMark56
Revert it to all or nothing.

If she uses it, it puts you DM for 4 seconds (or whatever it's suppose to be). Then it has a hard cooldown.

No more toggling DM. That's where they went wrong with that ability.


Judging by the way you responded, you were here for the 'E' version of the Defense Matrix and you know damn well that version was stupid. Just because you can't get around the Matrix, you wanna bring it back to the obsolete version? Seriously, it isn't that hard to get around the Defense Matrix...

IF
YOU
TRY

Don't use your ultimate whenever there's a D.Va around unless you're playing a hero that has an ultimate that can bypass it. Any weapon that has a channeling effect renders the Matrix useless. You have all these heroes at your disposal and the best you can do is come to the forums and whine about it to get the Defense Matrix nerfed? Go practice some more please.
Perhaps answers may lie in making more weapons/abilities price the matrix. Imagine Bastion tank form firing a railgun that pierced DM but not regular shielding. Dva still shuts Bastion sentry down but can't nullify his entire lit by following him and right clicking.
Maybe allowing Junkrat mine and mccree flash to go through.

Defence matrix is not the whole problem, a large part of the DM problem is that a few too many thingies are eaten by DM.
07/16/2017 01:39 AMPosted by Skybox
Perhaps answers may lie in making more weapons/abilities price the matrix. Imagine Bastion tank form firing a railgun that pierced DM but not regular shielding. Dva still shuts Bastion sentry down but can't nullify his entire lit by following him and right clicking.
Maybe allowing Junkrat mine and mccree flash to go through.

Defence matrix is not the whole problem, a large part of the DM problem is that a few too many thingies are eaten by DM.


That's not reason enough to nerf the Defense Matrix. If your ultimate gets eaten by D.Va, that's on you. If you're playing competitive then you have enough knowledge on what can and cannot be eaten by the Matrix and if you have this knowledge then you know well enough when to fire and when not to fire. What the Defense Matrix can and cannot eat isn't a problem.
07/15/2017 12:39 PMPosted by Notte
Nothing.

It's her form of a shield, her defensive capability for her and her team. What redeems her as a tank.

Do you see Hog over there, and his current problems? He has no defensive capability. A problem they're looking into currently to fix, but how?
If you take away/change DM, D.va becomes another Hog situation. Except worse, especially if you give her more health. She DOES have a larger critbox and hitboxes overall.

That's just me though. If they change her I'll adapt, but she's currently fine imo.


You missed the part where DM is ruining the game for everybody who doesn't play D.Va. It's just complete anti-fun. I don't care if they shift her power or even buff her as long as they change what DM currently is.
07/16/2017 01:43 AMPosted by Tucci
07/15/2017 12:39 PMPosted by Notte
Nothing.

It's her form of a shield, her defensive capability for her and her team. What redeems her as a tank.

Do you see Hog over there, and his current problems? He has no defensive capability. A problem they're looking into currently to fix, but how?
If you take away/change DM, D.va becomes another Hog situation. Except worse, especially if you give her more health. She DOES have a larger critbox and hitboxes overall.

That's just me though. If they change her I'll adapt, but she's currently fine imo.


You missed the part where DM is ruining the game for everybody who doesn't play D.Va. It's just complete anti-fun. I don't care if they shift her power or even buff her as long as they change what DM currently is.


So Defense Matrix is ruining it for people because they don't play D.Va? That's their own personal problem and should try and start using other heroes. I don't know about you but eating an ultimate is the greatest achievement I can do while playing as a D.Va and maybe those other players would feel the same if they played as D.Va.
But still, it's really interesting to see how the discussions flow. At its core, DM is the same thing it was in S2. I don't recall seeing any discussion about D.Va and her Matrix back then. Well, to be honest there were few, but the answer to it was always "do not shoot her while her DM is up".

And then February happened when they made DM airtight, because it felt inconsistent. And then suddenly, for some reason, it became OP. But it isn't. That's an impression, because you can't focus on D.Va as you should just before the dive meta, because... well, dive attackers.
07/16/2017 01:43 AMPosted by Tucci
07/15/2017 12:39 PMPosted by Notte
Nothing.

It's her form of a shield, her defensive capability for her and her team. What redeems her as a tank.

Do you see Hog over there, and his current problems? He has no defensive capability. A problem they're looking into currently to fix, but how?
If you take away/change DM, D.va becomes another Hog situation. Except worse, especially if you give her more health. She DOES have a larger critbox and hitboxes overall.

That's just me though. If they change her I'll adapt, but she's currently fine imo.


You missed the part where DM is ruining the game for everybody who doesn't play D.Va. It's just complete anti-fun. I don't care if they shift her power or even buff her as long as they change what DM currently is.


D matrix does what other shields do. No point in changing its properties simply because you don't have a visual representation of when it's depleted. Tweaking its duration etc is what maybe should looked into. D.M. is not that different from shields. Both can stop ults, both can stop primary fires... So unless you're proposing to get rid of those as well you have no grounds.
07/16/2017 01:43 AMPosted by Tucci
07/15/2017 12:39 PMPosted by Notte
Nothing.

It's her form of a shield, her defensive capability for her and her team. What redeems her as a tank.

Do you see Hog over there, and his current problems? He has no defensive capability. A problem they're looking into currently to fix, but how?
If you take away/change DM, D.va becomes another Hog situation. Except worse, especially if you give her more health. She DOES have a larger critbox and hitboxes overall.

That's just me though. If they change her I'll adapt, but she's currently fine imo.


You missed the part where DM is ruining the game for everybody who doesn't play D.Va. It's just complete anti-fun. I don't care if they shift her power or even buff her as long as they change what DM currently is.


Most D.Va players don't like being a DM bot either. Especially us long time players of her who know what she is supposed to be. Most of us tried to actually avoid this from the start, but nooo everyone had a hard on to have her nerfed after S3, so everyone was like yus gud change u jus hav to git gud and then they had to buff her DM because she was literally the most useless character in the game since they refused to actually lessen her nerfs by any standard.

Now look at what has happened. Can't say we didn't warn ya.

I definitely DON'T want DM to lose any of it's current capabilities, like eating ults or having some overload feature, but lowering it's uptime with proper compensations that I mentioned in my comment at the top of this page would be much appreciated by just about everyone, I'm sure. unless they like using DM as a crutch or like D.Va being really easy to kill, that is.
Also something to consider here is the fact that players only use their ultimate abilities in very heated team fights. This means tons of disruption going on and your mind is on overload. A D.Va has to focus very hard to pay attention to where the ultimate is coming from and that is no easy task even if you were a pro player. You'd be lucky enough if you could catch 2 ultimates in 1 round. So the Defense Matrix is only as useful as the player controlling D.Va.

Quote from Azyen

That's not reason enough to nerf the Defense Matrix. If your ultimate gets eaten by D.Va, that's on you. If you're playing competitive then you have enough knowledge on what can and cannot be eaten by the Matrix and if you have this knowledge then you know well enough when to fire and when not to fire. What the Defense Matrix can and cannot eat isn't a problem.


You are acting pretty stupid here, honestly. I'm not saying to nerf matrix directly, I am saying that indirectly nerfing it by changing the projectiles of some weapons to make defence matrix not a catch-all.

Here, let me turn your own argument against you. If you are playing D.va in competitive you know exactly what you can and cannot DM. You know your counters and if you try to DM something you can't, that's on you. If you have this knowledge you know well enough when to DM and when not to DM.

Changing three or so weapons/abilities to peirce DM is not a problem.
07/16/2017 02:04 AMPosted by Skybox

Quote from Azyen

That's not reason enough to nerf the Defense Matrix. If your ultimate gets eaten by D.Va, that's on you. If you're playing competitive then you have enough knowledge on what can and cannot be eaten by the Matrix and if you have this knowledge then you know well enough when to fire and when not to fire. What the Defense Matrix can and cannot eat isn't a problem.


You are acting pretty stupid here, honestly. I'm not saying to nerf matrix directly, I am saying that indirectly nerfing it by changing the projectiles of some weapons to make defence matrix not a catch-all.

Here, let me turn your own argument against you. If you are playing D.va in competitive you know exactly what you can and cannot DM. You know your counters and if you try to DM something you can't, that's on you. If you have this knowledge you know well enough when to DM and when not to DM.

Changing three or so weapons/abilities to peirce DM is not a problem.


But we already have heroes that can pierce and make her DM useless. Mei, Zarya, Winston, Symmetra weapons and any melee attacks like Reinhardt or Genji's slash. And we already have a hero that can disable Dva, Sombra. And probably even Doomfist can ignore her DM.

Plus the criteria for DM to nullify anything is that it has to be projectile based like bullets, so it'd be something that reworking certain heroes weapons, which at this point, seems unncessesary. I'm pretty sure there would be more heroes to come that won't be affected by Dva's DM in upcoming updates.
Revert the removal of the minimum shot travel distance and add line of sight checks to prevent it from stopping shots behind characters or barriers. Essentially, if you can't shoot through it, you can't stop shots on the other side of it.

The duration and recharge are fine.
07/16/2017 02:04 AMPosted by Skybox

Quote from Azyen

That's not reason enough to nerf the Defense Matrix. If your ultimate gets eaten by D.Va, that's on you. If you're playing competitive then you have enough knowledge on what can and cannot be eaten by the Matrix and if you have this knowledge then you know well enough when to fire and when not to fire. What the Defense Matrix can and cannot eat isn't a problem.


You are acting pretty stupid here, honestly. I'm not saying to nerf matrix directly, I am saying that indirectly nerfing it by changing the projectiles of some weapons to make defence matrix not a catch-all.

Here, let me turn your own argument against you. If you are playing D.va in competitive you know exactly what you can and cannot DM. You know your counters and if you try to DM something you can't, that's on you. If you have this knowledge you know well enough when to DM and when not to DM.

Changing three or so weapons/abilities to peirce DM is not a problem.


Really? I'm the one acting stupid? You're the one that wants to make it easier on yourself rather than TRYING to get around the Defense Matrix. D.Va's been nerfed to hell and yet she's still being played by normal players as well as pro players. What does that tell you?

It tells me that she's in a good spot right now and doesn't need anything until things around her change for the best or for the worst. You're wanting to squish her even further by trying to indirectly gimp Defense Matrix from what it currently is and yet you have the intelligence to say that I'm the one sounding dumb?


But we already have heroes that can pierce and make her DM useless. Mei, Zarya, Winston, Symmetra weapons and any melee attacks like Reinhardt or Genji's slash. And we already have a hero that can disable Dva, Sombra. And probably even Doomfist can ignore her DM.

Plus the criteria for DM to nullify anything is that it has to be projectile based like bullets, so it'd be something that reworking certain heroes weapons, which at this point, seems unncessesary. I'm pretty sure there would be more heroes to come that won't be affected by Dva's DM in upcoming updates.


Notice that the heroes you listed are all close to very close range or melee, including Sombra. Right now there are no good longer range options vs defence matrix. Also, the characters you have listed don't make D.va useless. They nullify Defence Matrix, sure, but unless you are giving a charged Zarya a hug then you will still have your guns and your repositioning boost.

I will agree that reworking hero weapons to bypass the matrix does seem like high effort for medium gains.
07/16/2017 02:24 AMPosted by Uglesett
Revert the removal of the minimum shot travel distance and add line of sight checks to prevent it from stopping shots behind characters or barriers. Essentially, if you can't shoot through it, you can't stop shots on the other side of it.

The duration and recharge are fine.


07/16/2017 02:24 AMPosted by Uglesett
Revert the removal of the minimum shot travel distance and add line of sight checks to prevent it from stopping shots behind characters or barriers. Essentially, if you can't shoot through it, you can't stop shots on the other side of it.

The duration and recharge are fine.


They removed that limit because D.Va players couldn't protect teammates that were standing in the matrix at a certain distance. Also, that limit was removed to give her some protection against Roadhog's ability to one-shot knock her out of the mech. I do agree with the line of sight checks and it would make it fair for those using barriers and shields.
[quote]

Notice that the heroes you listed are all close to very close or melee weapons. Right now there are no good longer range options vs defence matrix. Also, the characters you have listed don't make D.va useless. They nullify Defence Matrix, sure, but unless you are giving a charged Zarya a hug then you will still have your guns and your repositioning boost.

I will agree that reworking hero weapons to bypass the matrix does seem like high effort for medium gains.


To be fair,Sombra and Mei can literally make her useless, giving your team a high advantage especially if its at a choke point with your team or KOTH. Ive watched Dva's squirm whenever I freeze them or hack them.
07/15/2017 02:19 PMPosted by Solex
Reduce the duration to 3/9 secs. Remove/reduce movement penalty while shooting. Add clip size/reload to her weapon.

She has unlimited ammo....

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