Where are all the Tanks and Supports at?

General Discussion
Well, not sure about others but I'm still maining tanks and support. I'm just not a DPS guy at all, no matter what mmo game I play, I always go for tanking roles.
07/28/2017 06:55 AMPosted by KnalxzReaper

Opens arms out*

Come on buddy, let's just hug it out. Just don't make it weird.

But yeah I feel you. Even I'm getting burnt out on playing Winston as well and sometimes when I try to go double healer.

I.E. I see an Ana so i go Lucio, that Ana will quickly run back and switch to a new hero. Then I'm in the poor situation of realize that he wasn't a support, he was just someone kind enough yet unlucky enough to not get a role he wanted so he went support. When the first window of opportunity came up for him to bail out, he did in the blink of an eye. I didn't even realize it until the match started.


Aww, thanks man. I used to play primarily Ana, but with her damage nerf, and the power of flankers and dive heroes, Ana just feels like crippled mercy with a worse ultimate these days. (never thought i'd say that about nanoboost compared to the old days.) I love Lucio and Zen, but they aren't strong solo healers, and everyone wants to play DPS these days.

I used to play Every single tank at one point in time, Winston, Reinhardt, Zarya, Dva, Roadhog, and Orisa, but only Winston and Reinhardt could really fill that solo tank slot- Orisa is close, but far too inflexible, imo. Everyone else just doesn't have the constant protection or space creation to do it any more than part time.

Also, TeddyHarvest hit on something EXTREMELY IMPORTANT... No one gets more crap than a Reinhardt. No one. People get upset with mercies some times, but Reinhardt is a character who will routinely have his team who wouldn't step up and play a tank get furious at him for not being psychic and knowing what they want to do and where they are at all times.

He requires tons of patience and teamwork- all tanks do, but reinhardt is the most easily bullied tank- and if his team isn't going to use his shield, it feels like why bother playing him? He's a whipping boy for team frustrations very often. He may not be mechanically demanding but he requires very good game sense, much like winston.

I'm hoping his slight buffs that have come through will at least make him more fun to play. Reinhardt gets no respect.
07/28/2017 05:46 AMPosted by Kannon
IDKY but it seems that lately all I see is people playing Offence and Snipers.

I had 4 games in a row where no one refused to switch to a tank or support and since I'm not capable of playing two heroes at once, our match went as you'd expect.

Did I miss something? What's going on?

I even have friends who've tried to adopt to this shift by picking soldier 76 and calling themselves "The healer now!"


Dude. You have 56 hours on Genji. Your next closest is Winston at 23 hours.

Take your own advice.


I need healing.
I require healing.
I need healing.
I require healing.
2 healers i tank 1healer i might switch to dps, guess why?
07/28/2017 07:27 AMPosted by omnic
07/28/2017 05:14 AMPosted by KnalxzReaper
IDKY but it seems that lately all I see is people playing Offence and Snipers.

I had 4 games in a row where everyone refused to switch to a tank or support and since I'm not capable of playing two heroes at once, our match went as you'd expect.

Did I miss something? What's going on?

I even have friends who've tried to adopt to this shift by picking soldier 76 and calling themselves "The healer now!"


To a small extent they're in GM. When I dabbled in GM I started seeing a lot of tank players. Especially old reinhardt players. It's the one thing that tempts me just to go straight winston/d.va every game so I can climb back up and not deal with 3-4 dps one tricks seemingly every game.


Wait, so what you're literally telling me is that I'm too bad to get tanks and supports.

Feelsbadman

:(
07/28/2017 07:37 AMPosted by SylemG

He requires tons of patience and teamwork- all tanks do, but reinhardt is the most easily bullied tank-


But, in the same stroke, if he receives even a moderate amount of support, the team becomes an unstoppable deathball that can only be countered by an opposing deathball. And thus you have the tank meta, which Reinhardt was ALWAYS the keystone of.

Which points to the problem the developers never acknowledged when they were trying to kill the tank meta.

This being, tanks stack too well yet don't stand on their own. Tank damage mitigation works too well in concert: Zarya and D.Va hiding behind Rein's shield, D.Va making it stronger and Zarya bubbling if it ever did break. This, combined with healing, made them completely unassailable.

They never solved this problem. They didn't actually kill the tank meta, they just made the dive meta more attractive by nerfing tanks individually until people didn't want to play them.
I'll tell you my top 3 reasons for not playing tanks anymore.

1. Even before the nerfs, most tanks were pretty poor on their own without extensive support. Other heroes, way more impactful and autonomous. Tanks are disproportionately punished for their defenses, despite the fact those are already offset by huge hitboxes and limited mobility, then their damage gets kicked into the dirt too, with the already existing restrictions on range/reach.

2. Tanks were singled out for extensive nerfs, several of which they lied and called them 'fixes', but they weren't. Nobody wants to play something constantly under assault by the nerf fairy. Every time they struck down a tank, I transitioned to another, until the game ran out of tanks and I ran out of ****s to give.

3. Healers get ultimate charge primarily for healing, which is what they do best. Damage heroes get ultimate charge primarily for dealing damage, which they do best. Tanks get ultimate charge...NOT for soaking damage, which is what we're told they're supposed to do best when they're justifying tank offense nerfs. Then the developers gimp tank damage output, which THEY tied to ultimate charging, and call it "balance".
8 attack heroes
5 support (4 healers)
5 tanks
6 defense

and you wonder why :P
but no really this is horridly imbalanced roster wise
Blizzard killed the one tank I enjoyed playing and nobody protects the healers, so why should anyone pick those two if you get put at an active disadvantage for doing so?
My tank is fight!

Seriously though, if you need a tank... I got your back.
Healer's do not have the best tools for defending themselves. Most will instalock DPS. If DPS can't make key picks and protect the healers the healers get sick of dying. They stop playing healers, so now the tanks have a hard time staying alive. Since they are just giant targets. Players can tank decently so they switch off too.

I think there is a lack of maturity or understanding that comes with picking or just playing straight up DPS. Better players or more experienced players understand the underlying strength in a good team comp is the tank and support. Which is why the best DPS players will probably play support and then get frustrated when their team can't kill anything.

Everyone wants to play lead guitar. But its the drum and bass that everyone is really dancing to.

I also think support needs another healer.
07/28/2017 05:18 AMPosted by Zenith
Anyway, that aside, I have no clue why no one plays tank anymore. I'll play a Reinhardt if no one else does and we need one, but I'm usually stubborn so..


Because each DPS now can each tank 1v1, before that you had still respect. The tanks are weak, like supporters, only DPS is fun. Strengthens tanks or supports or weakens DPS heroes.
Blizz keeps adding more DPS for a reason...that's all the little kids play...those and widow/hanzo.
We just got a new shiny instalock dps, so the 4 dps meta became a 5 dps meta with 1-2 snipers now.

I cannot say I am enjoying solohealing versus Genji in every single game (most played hero on qp), especially when my team seems to have the awareness of a rock and the genji's can always freeroam and flank whenever they please, even if everyone should have noticed the genji doing so. Heck, exact same platinum genji player on QP doing the same thing, 1vs1 winning and nuking some random poor dps who can't seem to group up and then moving to nuke the support.

Neither am I enjoying solotanking if I miraculously get a healer, who proceeds to ignore me or when our team leaves us to duo 3 enemy flankers/dps who want some support meat and I cannot deter them as a sole tank. Or when I want to try Orisa versus doom and I just get tracer farmed all day and barely manage to touch point once.

Maybe I need to join the doomfist club if I can manage to lock him, he at least seems fun.

07/28/2017 08:21 AMPosted by JohnnyButane


3. Healers get ultimate charge primarily for healing, which is what they do best. Damage heroes get ultimate charge primarily for dealing damage, which they do best. Tanks get ultimate charge...NOT for soaking damage, which is what we're told they're supposed to do best when they're justifying tank offense nerfs. Then the developers gimp tank damage output, which THEY tied to ultimate charging, and call it "balance".


Indeed. And then straight up lie to our faces when asked about if the damage nerf affecting ulti charge rate will get compensated. There was a blue post from Jeff or Geoff who said it was "valid feedback and would be taken a look at". Orisa's sickeningly slow ulti charge rate had already gotten a nerf and with the completely unneccesary damage nerf, her charge rate became abysmal and it was never fixed, despite assurances that it would be looked at. Same happened to Dva. Same happened to roadhog too, now that I think about it, never any ulti charge nerf compensation.
07/28/2017 06:31 AMPosted by MeidInChina
Simple. Tank is boring, Healer is frustrating. It's the classic, "blame the healer." I would know.
DPS has varying playstyle characters, which makes it more fun to play.
Why would u want to play healer? If u mess up an ana ult, die before u rez, etc. you get blamed for losing a team fight. (In most games I've played, I've experienced this.) Healers get the most backlash for messing up one time. If you get picked off it's the end of the world. If you don't pocket someone who thinks they're godlike they complain. You can't heal and make everyone on the team happy with you. (With the way season 5 toxicity is at rn anyway.)
Now tank. Its. Just. Boring. To be blunt. D.va is a defence matrix bot. Roadhog is yanno SOMETIMES viable(maybe?). Rein is a meat shield. Orisa is only good on certain maps, let alone her shots are hard to hit like wtf?? Winston is actually good. And zarya's good if u can keep up her energy, and get ult fast, but if u barely play her, its hard to do.
So instead of all the downsides of healer and tank, (and where defense characters are rarely as good as playing dps), then just play dps, because its simply more fun.
This is just all my opinion tho.


I don't get it....people really think it's more fun to get a full DPS team and lose time and time again?
OP I'm sorry about making assumptions based on your profile. It's a bad habit throughout the community and you were right to call me out on it.

But with a profile that lopsided, a lot of the community is going to think "too little too late" even after finding out that you don't play Genji anymore, and frankly while I want to encourage the change, I don't blame them.

You have to look at it from an outside perspective. If I just played the game how I wanted (or just the only characters I was good at), I would have a much more even profile, with a heck of a lot more DPS playtime. But I've been a team player from day 1, and thus my profile is at it is.

Now you're starting to be a team player, and you make a thread asking where all the Tanks and Healers have gone. I understand that you're trying to heal the game and find solutions, and I want to encourage that, but you can't be surprised when you trudge up some negative emotions and frustration from those of us who have been trying to do this from launch day. I think a lot of our frustration is justified, and now that you've been on both sides of the coin I think you're starting to see that as well.

So yes, I was wrong to lash out at you, and I'm sorry. I just hope you understand how your thread can kick up frustration in the player base.
I almost exclusively play tanks and support. Primarily Reinhardt though.
Vareity...a partial reason.
there are 8 offense heroes 6 Defense heroes all of them are basically DPS, and in Support 1 (Symm) does not heal, which leaves us with 4 healers and 6 tanks.

And as someone how likes to play support, it gets old really fast, only having 4 healing options that while are well designed DPS guys have 14 options (15 counting Symmetra if you consider her a DPS). Tanking is in the same position.

But let's be real unless you're in a group, even if the numbers of DPS,Tank and Healer were the same people will still instalock Dps (specially the ones they're not good at) why?


07/28/2017 05:55 AMPosted by r3db34r
because there are a majority of players that think they can just solo win games ... forgetting that this is a team based game. they forget that the whole time they sit on the back nine, sniping and maybe getting a kill here and there, that there is a team pushing or holding the objective. OR if someone does go healer, they never protect them. its just "heal me heal me heal me" or "im not getting heals u suck" ... sorry, not putting up with that crap.


nailed it.
I really am wondering how people are liking reinhardt now that he's swinging slightly faster, firestrike's hitbox was improved, people bounce less off charge, and his hits just register better. In regular quick play, if i get lucky enough to get a healer, the shieldless masses are getting hammered down left and right. Might make a thread about it- but he feels more fun if you get a team that wont just throw...

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