Unfair: Ilios ruins map design - Please fix

General Discussion
07/24/2017 05:43 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
We'll check it out.

Looking at the map stats, nothing is showing a statistical imbalance. But we'll see if we can bring things more in line.

I dont think a statistics can even offer insight in this particular issue... player kills are pretty much equal for either side of the map, but the location where a player stands when they die/secure a kill, might not be the same.

This was a pretty common phenomenon in Halo's symmetrical maps. https://goo.gl/images/WtA148

The heatmaps for all of Halo's symmetrical maps always showed more trends on one side in specific areas compared to the other corresponding mirrored side, even though the statisical win/loss percentage was roughly the same per map.

in League of Legends by nature of the camera position, kill and death heatmaps also showed more trends on purple side, especially on Bot Lane. http://willtank.com/deaths.html

Where Widow stands, or where her victims stand, however, might be drastically different depending on which side she starts on. Even if it isn't statistically changing the outcomes, it's still a nuisance that players have to play around.

I assume that the dev team has similar heat map tools to track activity?

I'm pretty sure that the side without an obscuring tree has more Widow deaths on top of the mega-health pack building. Meanwhile, the side with the tree, has Widow die more frequently on the left and right sniping spots.

Side note - can this sort of data be put into the stat-tracking API?

07/24/2017 06:50 PMPosted by BrokenStylus
There a jump that's impossible to do on the CTF "evening" version of Ruins, on one particular side.

https://gfycat.com/ImmediateAdorableDiamondbackrattlesnake


These are some top-shelf posts. Now I wanna see what the top 100 kill-points for each of the characters look like.
07/24/2017 07:13 PMPosted by lol
Little did OP know Jeff actually nerfs the left tree.


rip left tree. sorry guys
So this is basically an advantage only one hero has? I dont see anything wrong with that. Giving the only long range sniper in the game some cheesy spots is completely fine imo. To get to a level where you can make effective use of it is where the real challenge lies.
07/24/2017 05:02 PMPosted by Dayr
Everybody knows that Ilios Ruins is a popular Widowmaker map. However, whichever side of the map RNGjesus decides to put you on actually matters a lot.

In particular there is one spot that's great for sniping, which is on the roof of the structure which houses the mega health pack next to spawn. It's great because it's on the high ground and offers a great view of part of the point --- that is, for one team.

IMAGE: http://imgur.com/a/Ufz6S

You can clearly see that the tree's are different and that a Widowmaker's view of the point differs tremendously depending on which side of the map you are on. Please fix this @Devs to make the map fair.


Yes, please fix this devs. Both sides should have plenty of shrubbery in the way. They want it to be fair so please make it fair. No Widowmaker should be able to snipe the point from literally, half way or more across the map with the only possible counter being another Widowmaker or a flanker going SO far out of position they're leaving the entire team even more vulnerable. (Not to mention the only flankers who could feasibly do this would be genji or Sombra, honestly.)
Imbalance addition; on the other side, there's a scaffolding next to a health pack near the wall, on the other side there's a large bush. The bush is great for hiding shield generators; scaffolding, not.
07/24/2017 05:43 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
We'll check it out.

Looking at the map stats, nothing is showing a statistical imbalance. But we'll see if we can bring things more in line.


Seems like there are more blue posts these days, and from Jeff, early in the morning in Europe / Paris. There is hope, they care.
07/24/2017 05:43 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
We'll check it out.

Looking at the map stats, nothing is showing a statistical imbalance. But we'll see if we can bring things more in line.


In other words "no we're not gonna fix it but we'll pretend to take your feedback seriously"
There's also this unfair advantage: https://youtu.be/f-4m6V6eRs0

I just uploaded it so hopefully the quality gets better.
Dayr? Is that you my boi?
07/24/2017 05:45 PMPosted by Haspoi
07/24/2017 05:43 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
We'll check it out.

Looking at the map stats, nothing is showing a statistical imbalance. But we'll see if we can bring things more in line.


what about the rest of the game?


lol people downvoted this!? he's not wrong...
Dive meta is so dull... 99% of games = dva / zarya, winston, genji, reaper, mercy, lucio
Whenever I get to that spot I just go beast mode and shoot through the leaves hoping I hit sometihng
07/24/2017 05:43 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
We'll check it out.

Looking at the map stats, nothing is showing a statistical imbalance. But we'll see if we can bring things more in line.


Call in the tree trimmers!

07/25/2017 06:28 AMPosted by RYBATYPE
07/24/2017 05:45 PMPosted by Haspoi
...

what about the rest of the game?


lol people downvoted this!? he's not wrong...
Dive meta is so dull... 99% of games = dva / zarya, winston, genji, reaper, mercy, lucio


dive meta has nothing to do with map balance.
you miss alot of blizzards "polish" when youre on low settings
07/24/2017 05:08 PMPosted by Balsty
I thought this got fixed ages ago
Way back in October of last year they added a tree to one side that originally didn't have one. Turns out they didn't give the new tree the opening to the point that the original tree has.
Made the trees smaller so they are no longer blocking either side. Raised the set of blocks on both sides out in front of that spot to help prevent some extremely long distance sniping, but overall it's going to be better for Widow imo. Enjoy. Should be in soon. Thanks for the feedback.
This thread just made my day.
fix it.
07/24/2017 05:43 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
We'll check it out.

Looking at the map stats, nothing is showing a statistical imbalance. But we'll see if we can bring things more in line.


Glad it's being looked into.
But I think this is a good case to show that stats aren't everything.
This is a very clear cut issue, even if the stats don't reflect it.
....She's a sniper. She's meant to be good at getting kills from large distances.

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