Hanzo+Widow in Comp

General Discussion
So I played a ranked match the other day and I got a duo queue on my team. The first thing they do is auto lock widow and hanzo. Needless to say, we lost horribly. I don't mind having one of widow or hanzo, in fact they can be very helpful. However, there is a glaring issue when both are on the same team.

I have often said that for each of these characters to be effective they need to be killing two enemy players every team fight. 1 to cancel themselves out of the fight, and one to give your team an advantage. If you are only killing one, then it is only 5v5 and you didn't get enough value for your pick. If you have both Widow and Hanzo, they are going after the same targets, and the chances of them killing 4 enemy heroes in a teamfight is slim. The chance of your team winning 6v4 or 5v4 is unlikely, and 4v4 is roughly 50% chance. More often than not you lose with both on your team. There is no strategy that works with both on the team.

So, I feel this should be reportable. I know that sounds harsh and that people should be able to play what they want, but they are deliberately ruining the game for 4 other people. You can't build around it because there is no strategy that works. When we asked them to change they said no. Please make it reportable or make it so that you can have one, not both.

It is possible I am just salty over it, and if thats the case I am sorry. I am just tired of that crap when I want to improve my rank.
I am starting to main Widow myself and I have to say I actually agree with you. You need to be doing a lot of work to justify her which is fine if you are good. The problem is she is viewed so lowly I am actually afraid to play her in competitive because I fear it will make the team throw.
These duos are usually scrubs sucking each other off in private discord chat. My fave duo is a mercy solo healing a Tracer.
My duo partner is a Hanzo main who also plays supports on the side, and I also play with a DPS flex with heavy emphasis on Widowmaker from time to time as well. So there are times when my duo partner would go Hanzo and the other would go Widow. I figured I could give my perspective here.

I think it could work, but the situation in which it could work is very niche. My duo partner does not necessarily play Hanzo like a sniper. Not the same way that you would expect people to play Widow. They don't play Hanzo on big sightlines and long ranges. Instead, they play him with a similar range and playstyle as McCree. They stay at mid-range, staying behind the tanks unless it's necessary for them to move elsewhere to get a pick. Our Widow, on the other hand, would be the one to stay on the big sightlines, and get picks from there. So we would have one sniper playing at long range, and the other sniper sticking with the rest of the team.

Granted, the team still needs to pick heroes who can handle getting aggro so they could take the heat off the two snipers, but it could still work. That being said, I do understand where you are coming from, and I am sure most people would prefer only one or the other. That's why my duo partner also mains heals on top of Hanzo. So if we go into comp and our friend picks Widow on, say, King's Row, they'll stay off Hanzo and instead switch to a healer like Mercy or Zen.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20758476369
hanzo, bastion, roadhog needs burf
Even he has scatter still not contribute team .
Hanzo's winrate? Even grandmaster just 50%. So that means. NO BENEFIT.
I understand your frustration but forcing people to play a certain way is not the way to go.

In the end, this is a Video Game, try not to let it affect you on such a personal level.
Uh.

Just curious... but doesn't that rule apply to any DPS? Should be killing two for every death otherwise you're just dead weight?
I have never had a good experience with the sniper duo. You see them double up in QP more than you will ever see a healer. Its a scary thing in comp though when you have two snipers that refuse to change. Its the only thing that is a guaranteed loss that isn't a griefer or thrower.
08/05/2017 11:03 PMPosted by Saint
Uh.

Just curious... but doesn't that rule apply to any DPS? Should be killing two for every death otherwise you're just dead weight?
its not the same at all, both hanzo and widow are pretty bad at king of the hill, at taking the point, I cant even remember the last time ive seen them ever take the point in king of the hill. Moving the payload they are both pretty bad at moving it. DPS like soldier can just run and self heal, tracer can also teleport out and self heal. Genji also has better time then taking the point then both widow or hanzo.
08/05/2017 11:03 PMPosted by Saint
Uh.

Just curious... but doesn't that rule apply to any DPS? Should be killing two for every death otherwise you're just dead weight?


The problem becomes how crippled your team is with a bad widow as opposed to a bad 76. A bad widowmaker brings nothing to the table but you can work with a bad 76. Healing pad to help the team and a coordinated ult combo with him. He can't mess up a nano visor combo when its set up for him. A bad widowmaker can't really do anything at all. She can eventually ult but you're better off with hanzo. Direct the bad hanzo where to sonar and possibly set up combos with the dragon.
08/05/2017 11:09 PMPosted by Hecatomb
08/05/2017 11:03 PMPosted by Saint
Uh.

Just curious... but doesn't that rule apply to any DPS? Should be killing two for every death otherwise you're just dead weight?
its not the same at all, both hanzo and widow are pretty bad at king of the hill, at taking the point, I cant even remember the last time ive seen them ever take the point in king of the hill. Moving the payload they are both pretty bad at moving it. DPS like soldier can just run and self heal, tracer can also teleport out and self heal. Genji also has better time then taking the point then both widow or hanzo.
I don't buy that. My first legendary card with Widow was on lijiang tower for objective kills. (Got POTG on night market that game)

There is no DPS worth anything if they are doing a 1:1 ratio. Last guy mentioned soldiers healing... but why not just make the Soldier switch to a healer if he's not killing anything...?
If you have a Widow or a Hanzo on your team, play around them.
Where is your widow perched? What sight line is she looking down?
Is the enemy team respecting that sight line or challenging her? If they're challenging her, they're not looking at you. Be aggressive and kill them. If they're too focused on the widow to stop you, they're as good as dead.
If they're respecting her sight lines, move up and take that ground. The enemy is giving it to you for free.

A widow doesn't need picks to be effective. She just needs a team who'll aggressively take the space she makes. Getting picks is just a bonus. But if she's dying a lot or trying to play into a lot of counters, it's just a bad hero choice.

As for Hanzo, He doesn't have the same sniper mechanics as Widow. Hanzo is better at holding angles and doing massive amounts of damage to tanks, with his scatter arrows. Or if he wants to be truly annoying, getting picks with it.
So what should you do if there's a Hanzo on your team?
Follow up on his damage. If he scatters a tank down to half health, the other half'll be a cakewalk for you. If he gets bodyshots, then pounce on the low health enemies.
Hanzo doesn't really need kills, he just needs damage, and a team that can follow up on it and help him hold the corners and angles he loves.

If you have both on your team, consider a 3rd DPS, like a Tracer to pounce on body shots easily, and help take the ground the snipers are making for you. 2 Very Aggressive tanks work well too. Zarya, Winston, or D.va in any combination. Zarya especially, as her graviton combo with Hanzo ultimate is still insane.
For healers, you'll want Zen/Lucio, as they don't need a whole lot of peeling to be effective. Plus Zen makes anything with discord an easy target for a sniper, or for the aforementioned Tracer.

In Short; People are always going to make dumb picks in public comps. As long as they're not straight up throwing, the only thing you can do is do your best to play around what they're doing, and prop them up for success. If you don't, you lose. And if you do, and it goes badly, you lose. But at least then you tried to help, and you weren't toxic, right?
if they played hard then there is no reason to report

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