Micro Missile stats?

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09/02/2017 07:52 AMPosted by JediLisa
Again with more testing, I have noticed a couple things;

The micro missiles :
- Needs an instant fire, not delayed.
- That 25% reduced damage they just implemented needs to be reverted. I dont know what pro or Youtuber !@#$%ED about the damage they did but really? It was low end scale specially when the chances of then hitting 100% of a target is very low.


Exactly my opinion.
Genau meine Meinung.
09/02/2017 04:13 PMPosted by TbyCoLive
09/02/2017 07:52 AMPosted by JediLisa
Again with more testing, I have noticed a couple things;

The micro missiles :
- Needs an instant fire, not delayed.
- That 25% reduced damage they just implemented needs to be reverted. I dont know what pro or Youtuber !@#$%ED about the damage they did but really? It was low end scale specially when the chances of then hitting 100% of a target is very low.


Exactly my opinion.
Genau meine Meinung.

completely agree as well, its already hard enough to hit a small moving target as it is and to do barely any damage when i do, needs to be reverted. although the delay is fine
I predicted that if Junkrat changes came live he would skyrocket in winrate, Sure enough. He is the best DPS across most tiers (including grandmasters) Don't get me wrong I'm a junkrat main, but feels like Blizz is losing it.

This PTR Mercy is WAY OFF, to the point that it seams ridiculous. The most needed nerf to Pharah still didn't come, which is disturbing, that alone would increase the Junkrat viability by a LARGE amount. but no, they simple oberbuff him, and now Junkrat and Phara dominates the game. While phara will be indirectly buffed by Mercy changes (BY A LOT).

I predict that widow was going to be useless since her 150 body damage nerf, and no matter what buff they punch into her, she remain quite useless, and I predict that Grappling Hook buff would change nothing, sure enough. I predict more buffs coming to her, but not damage. Probably they'll make her faster while scoped.

Now I'm predicting that those changes (dva / mercy) will start the beginning of the downfall of the game. The balance will be dead, but more than that, ppl will complain about how blizz didn't listen to the player base, that were mostly against the changes, and to make things worse, yea, any team without Mercy will have a hard time (and I don't even want to mention Pharmercy). Blizz wont revert the changes, they never do, and it will take like months to adress the balance, but the damage would be already done. The trust between players and company would be gone. Junkrat will skyrocket a little more in a few days, because ppl are getting used to the changes, plus a lot of ppl will learn how to play him. But his nerf will come sooner, for the reason that he is also fun to play. (and because I play him).

Dva will become very bad, her winrate will be very low, and that's probably what blizzard wants. She will leave the pro-scene and players will realize that Blizzard is doing all that s*t to keep esports viable and interesting, in other words, trying to increase it's life. Making changes after change so the pro scene are forced to change their hero pool.
wanna bet?
I don't necessarily think the missile change needs reversion, but it needs to be less of a nerf. I understand shifting the power back in the direction of Matrix a little. To be honest the duration is still too low. 2.5s makes a lot more sense.

But ignoring that, Defense Matrix even with that 25% restore isn't good enough to ward such a decrease in the missile damage. A 10-15% nerf would have been acceptableish. 25% was....yeah. Too much.
DM is not OP you just need stop being a noob and stop feeding her your ULTS, it is that simple, no one forces you to feed her your ULTS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu5t8E-NI-0

Overwatch central about Dva. Very interesting to see. I'm predicting that Dva would see a winrate fall, but who am I compered to LowKeyNerd. He says she's going to be a monster. Well , still a problem in my point of view. She wont be able to tank, but she is going to be a 600HP flying assassin. It's kinda game breaking, isn't it?

I don't want to see my main heroes overnefed, neither overpowered. It's not good for the game. LowKeyNerd says (in his opinions, if he was a dev) he would work around Dva's kit, "refining the kit" not punching more stuff. I completely agree.

And in My opinion, I'd gladly give away the ability of DM to eat projectile base ults, like graviton and pulse bomb. That's something even the new Dva can still do, and this is a thing that needs to be addressed. you don't need to sell Dva's tank role, and transform her into a flying 600hp assassin.

-DM no longer eat projectiles ults and to compensate, Dva gains 300/300 armor.
or
-DM no longer eat projectiles ults and to compensate, Dva gains 2 more pallets on cannons.

One simple fine change. "Refine her kit" do not rework or break the hero.
As a result of adding Micro Missiles to the game, D.va is now generating more ultimates per match than before. Between spamming the enemy spawn and attacking large, slow characters with Micro Missiles she on average has her ultimate up for every other team fight at least. This results in a snow balling effect where D.va and her extra lives can better stall out on 2cp, and I believe it's an unintended consequence of the new ability.

In order to address this, I'd like to suggest normalizing the damage in her kit by reducing the damage of Micro Missiles by 25% (from 162 to 121.5) and increasing the damage of her Boosters by 100% (from 25 to 50). While this is a nerf to D.va's total damage, it's a buff to her consistent damage that makes Boosters a more visceral ability and Micro Missiles a less dangerous button to implement as it becomes a Helix Rocket analogue at 120 damage.

With a total damage nerf of 45% on Micro Missiles, you can now safely remove the .5sec delay on the ability and make the missiles feel less awkward to fire. This raises the overall skillcap of the character, since players can better aim correct in order to maximize the ability's damage cap without dealing excessive damage and the "boop" needs to connect in order to realize all of her damage potential.

By better distributing D.va's damage through out her kit, you can better keep her ultimate charge generation in check as she does less spam damage from long range and more impact damage from point blank range. This should hopefully reduce the problem of higher ultimate charge on the one hand, and give more varied tools on the other.

Regardless of whether or not you choose to implement this change, I'd urge you to keep a close eye on her ultimate generation as giving her a new ability has really made her ultimate more of a deciding factor in matches.
09/03/2017 02:50 PMPosted by ShivanDragon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu5t8E-NI-0

Overwatch central about Dva. Very interesting to see. I'm predicting that Dva would see a winrate fall, but who am I compered to LowKeyNerd. He says she's going to be a monster. Well , still a problem in my point of view. She wont be able to tank, but she is going to be a 600HP flying assassin. It's kinda game breaking, isn't it?

I don't want to see my main heroes overnefed, neither overpowered. It's not good for the game. LowKeyNerd says (in his opinions, if he was a dev) he would work around Dva's kit, "refining the kit" not punching more stuff. I completely agree.

And in My opinion, I'd gladly give away the ability of DM to eat projectile base ults, like graviton and pulse bomb. That's something even the new Dva can still do, and this is a thing that needs to be addressed. you don't need to sell Dva's tank role, and transform her into a flying 600hp assassin.

-DM no longer eat projectiles ults and to compensate, Dva gains 300/300 armor.
or
-DM no longer eat projectiles ults and to compensate, Dva gains 2 more pallets on cannons.

One simple fine change. "Refine her kit" do not rework or break the hero.


I don't agree with her not being able to eat projectile ults. One of the biggest issues with this rework is the reduction of DM and the fact that it results in huge defensive gaps throughout the game as a whole that D.Va used to be the answer to, but simply isn't any more. Taking away her ability to eat projectile ults means you 'll only have Genji as a counter to them, and he doesn't eat them like D.Va does and doesn't do it as often, more due to Genji often flanking and not being with the bulk of the team. They are also the harder ults to stop compared to Pharah, Reaper, etc. (which in her current PTR form she really can't seriously deal with any more) and it takes good timing and positioning to get them, unless her enemies are playing stupidly and throwing them into her face without thinking.

Again, D.Va eating ults too often has been largely caused by the Overwatch team's bad balancing of her in the past and (again) leads back to taking her armour away in January. Again, her DM wasn't the problem but because they made alterations that made her less survivable she ended up being played in a more defensive manner where she hung around the bulk of her team more often and dived less. As such we've got a D.Va that in a lot of players hands wasn't off diving and flanking to deal with isolated issues because her being able to 1v1 as often and as many heroes was stunted by her lack of survivability. Add to this her fixed DM that eats point-blank projectiles and you've got a D.Va that's eating projectiles more, not because her DM is too long but because the "DM Bot" playstyle many adopted led her to being in the vicinity of where most ults were directed more often. Simply put, dive harassment D.Va would be off diving and harassing and thus not be eating ults as much because she wasn't always around them.
09/03/2017 04:54 PMPosted by TerrorK
I don't agree with her not being able to eat projectile ults. One of the biggest issues with this rework is the reduction of DM and the fact that it results in huge defensive gaps throughout the game as a whole that D.Va used to be the answer to, but simply isn't any more. Taking away her ability to eat projectile ults means you 'll only have Genji as a counter to them, and he doesn't eat them like D.Va does and doesn't do it as often, more due to Genji often flanking and not being with the bulk of the team.


You can't have it all. The devs already stated it. That's what caused this rework in the first place. Dva players wanted her armor and damage back, together with DM eating everything. They kept crying in the forums and look what happened.

The fact that Dva can eat projectile ults don't make her a counter to Zarya nor Mei, it's actually the opposite. Zarya and Mei are hard counters to Dva even tho Dva can eat both their ults. Eating ults is hard, and happens most of the time by accident due to Dva being able to pop DM without any remorse. It's not a skill shot, it's a lucky shot. That's why I propose it get's "nerfed" but I only want this if Dva is going to keep the same, of course. As I said, you can't have it all.
09/04/2017 01:09 PMPosted by ShivanDragon

You can't have it all. The devs already stated it. That's what caused this rework in the first place. Dva players wanted her armor and damage back, together with DM eating everything. They kept crying in the forums and look what happened.


The real cause is that the Overwatch team screwed up in January in the first place. They didn't listen then and put D.Va in this position by stripping her armour. This made her less able to dive because she couldn't take the hits any more before popping and couldn't 1v1 as well, and so many D.Va players stopped playing her as a harassment dive tank and went into "DM Bot" mode, which resulted in the complaints that she's "boring to play" from those that did this, while simultaneously causing more complaints that she's over-protecting her team from her enemies. The Overwatch team caused this in the first place due to their own stubborn arrogance and not listening to feedback, stubbornly putting their food down that she wasn't going to get her armour back despite the fact that so many D.Va mains back then posted pages and pages of logical, well thought out arguments as to why she needed her armour to perform her role.

And now what do we have? We have the Overwatch team at it again, not listening to feedback and not admitting to mistakes and just arrogantly putting through another terrible change tacked onto an existing terrible change that makes her into even less of a tank than before and completely takes her in the wrong direction.

So me typing this is only really for your benefit. I don't know why I'm bothering, these stupid missiles and this pathetic to the point of uselessness DM are going to go through because Geoff and his team of clowns never listen to reason and never admit to making mistakes. They just keep piling more mistakes into more mistakes and keep ruining hero after hero. By the time Overwatch is the age of Team Fortress 2, you won't even recognize it or any of the heroes any more.

And most D.Va mains didn't "want it all" despite what the devs said. It's another artifact of them not listening properly. When her armour was stripped back we just wanted D.Va's tankiness via armour to be better so we could more viably dive and kill more via being able to take the hits, we didn't actually want her offensiveness increased. Hell, many of us would have been happy with her just being restored to her pre-November 2016 buff back then. Back when the Overwatch team said she had a problem with survivability.


The fact that Dva can eat projectile ults don't make her a counter to Zarya nor Mei, it's actually the opposite. Zarya and Mei are hard counters to Dva even tho Dva can eat both their ults. Eating ults is hard, and happens most of the time by accident due to Dva being able to pop DM without any remorse. It's not a skill shot, it's a lucky shot. That's why I propose it get's "nerfed" but I only want this if Dva is going to keep the same, of course. As I said, you can't have it all.


The thing that I always felt made D.Va work were is that she didn't really hard-counter any other hero, while most other heroes hard-counter somebody. To compensate for this she soft-countered almost every hero in some fashion, and in the form of her two biggest counters (Zarya and Mei) this came in her ability to eat their ults. This was never a problem IMO and also didn't become a problem for so many others until post January 2017, even though she could always do this. As for the accidental eating you mention, as I've said that's a result of her being around her team more due to her being played more as a "DM Bot" because of her armour being stripped, but it's more due to bad playing from those throwing out the ults. If they're getting eaten accidentally, then whoever threw them out made a poor or very unlucky choice. I don't think poor tactics should see D.Va punished.
Even since they buffed the nerfed DM, has anyone else feels that she is still too squishy and unfun. Its like the devs aren't either reading these comments or just straight up ignoring them.

We are all saying the D.Va doesn't feel like a tank anymore and thus feels more unfun than she use to (yes, even with the Micro Missiles). Constantly de-meching is (surprise, surprise) not that enjoyable. No, I didn't playing D.Va when she was just a DM bot; I've been a D.Va main since the beta. Yes, I know how to play D.va correctly, carefully, and tactically. Yes, she is more engaging and has an aspect of old D.Va in her again. But back then, she had more armor too.

You want to nerf Defense Matrix? Sure, but either give her more armor or fix the almost-laughable critical hitbox.
09/05/2017 01:43 PMPosted by Byzantine
Even since they buffed the nerfed DM, has anyone else feels that she is still too squishy and unfun.
They haven't buffed it yet, I recorded Matrix recharging on live and PTR then compared them side by side, it's still the same speed, 10 secs.

I love the idea of her having missiles, as a mech I always thought that's what she lacked (it's like they read my mind). It's possible that she's just too easy to focus and demech however so we'll have to see. I'm certainly glad about the upcoming buff to Matrix recharge, 2 secs for 10 + cooldown (so at least 11 or more) was too little even with the missiles.
After having had some more time on the PTR, especially after the DM recharge time 'buff,' I still believe D.Va is in a very weak position.

My specific gripes still stand in an older post I made on this very same thread, so I'll keep it short this time. DM is still too weak, with what I understand as an 8s recharge time (plus 1s delay), you either choose to save it for countering specific ults, or waste it on trying to protect yourself—and neither works out. You'll frequently just not have enough charge to properly counter the ults that it used to counter, or your mech will simply be destroyed due to its paltry duration and recharge time.

Additionally, MM still don't feel any better to use (even after having had yet more time with them), though it may be as simple as either increasing their projectile speed or lowering their cooldown by 2s. As it stands, the 8s cooldown is actually 8s + 0.5s windup + 1.6s firing time, which leads to many instances where I'm pressing the MM button and getting nothing.

Honestly, if these two issues could be addressed, D.Va may well survive this gutting of DM. This is ignoring some other key issues I still have with her, of course, such as the fact that she still revives as pilot D.Va or that she is still slowed down while firing despite her lack of defensive options.
Whats Reinhart without his shield?

What's Orisa without her Shield?

What's Winston without his Bubble?

What's Zarya without her Shield ?

Massive battery ultimates

Big hitboxes
Easy to track them
Low DPS
Some of them has 0 mobility.

And D.va the """"""Tank"""""" who cannot do anything good( on PTR)

Tanks in this game needs tools to mitigate DAMAGE they don't need more DPS or gimmick skills.

D.va changes makes 0 sense and she will be outclassed by any other tank even RODHOG who can even EAT all the ultimates in the game with his new 50% damage reduction on breather.

He can even tank d.va ult.
09/04/2017 04:14 PMPosted by TerrorK
The thing that I always felt made D.Va work were is that she didn't really hard-counter any other hero, while most other heroes hard-counter somebody. To compensate for this she soft-countered almost every hero in some fashion, and in the form of her two biggest counters (Zarya and Mei) this came in her ability to eat their ults.


Much as I love playing DVa you have to be realistic and admit that she was pretty close to a hard counter to both Reaper and Soldier. While yes you can de-mech her and so forth the practical reality is that two mainstay DPS heroes are heavily crippled by her presence both ultimate and general use-wise. She's also 10x as good as any of the other tanks vs Pharah and Tracer. That's a fair chunk of the reliable DPS heroes.

Its good to have a police/hand-break character in the game to rein in DPS-madness but there is a limit. Sure the current re-work is asinine and guts the character but there does need to be some sort of tweak.
As a main D.Va player, I like the new changes. However, the new rockets she obtained are not the best. Hate the fact that they shoot all at once. Don't you think it would better if you could shoot 4 rockets twice? I just think it would be better. Anyways, not really liking the rockets the way they are now.
Am I the only one who hates the way the rocket is shooting in a straight line? It just feels so boring and bland... I would love if they would add something to it like more random movements to the rocket that will move straight to the center of your crosshair.
For all those like Byzantine and TrashChan above who thought they were using the buffed recharge DM but really weren't because it hadn't been implemented on the PTR, it just got added to the PTR today, so now you can actually see what it's like and if it takes the edge off her DM uptime nerf.

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