No-hit detection MEGATHREAD

General Discussion
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09/22/2017 11:09 AMPosted by Tim Ford
Hey everyone,
Thank you consolidating all these videos. Having access to hard evidence, in context, is immeasurably useful. We’d like to give you an update of where we stand with respect to hit registration issues. I’ll group these issues into three buckets:

  • Issues where we understand the problem and are working on a fix
  • Issues for which we have a fix on deck or a recently deployed fix
  • Issues which are not defects, but deliberate trade-offs against “favor the shooter”

Let’s look at each of these in turn. The biggest outstanding issue emerges from how we reconcile lost player input on the server. Whenever your input doesn’t make it consistently to the server because of connection inconsistency, there’s a chance that the server will not replicate your aim synchronized with when you pressed the fire button. This error is exacerbated by recoil-based weapons, since your aim will certainly have changed the frame after you fire a recoiling weapon. If the server doesn’t honor your aim direction at the moment you fired because of packet loss, you will very likely mispredict. We are actively investigating a fix for this, which we hope to deploy with the next major patch. We’ve also identified and have a potential fix for any false hit registration in kill cam, highlights PoTG or spectator views. We’re continuing to test the fix, and we hope to deploy it with the next major patch as well.

We have a fix for a host of Hanzo related mispredict issues. We identified a defect in how we processed successive shots after poor network conditions affected prior shots. The Hanzo fix will go live with the next major patch. In addition, we deployed a fix where a target’s collision could be displaced from where they were drawn on screen by as much as 16 milliseconds in the 1.15 build. In our 1.14 build, we fixed a bug where your player position (and therefore your gun position) would have mispredicted shots when you were moving in close proximity to other players. This bug primarily affected our close-range hit-scan heroes like Reaper and Roadhog.

Finally, there are a handful of videos in this thread that demonstrate some of the deliberate trade-offs we made against our “Favor the Shooter” philosophy. Any shot mispredicted against a dashing Genji, Mercy, Tracer or Doomfist is deliberate. A handful of other abilities exhibit this behavior as well (Winston/Pharah Leap, Sombra translocate, etc.) We have rules in place where we will not favor the shooter if your target executes one of these maneuvers. This is a trade-off that we have made to accommodate the realities of the internet.

From the data we have collected, none of these issues are new; all of them have been in the game since Beta. We enjoy a very passionate community that does a fine job scrutinizing our game, and we humbly and graciously accept the challenge to reach the high bar you have set. Please continue to send us videos. If possible, please find videos where the network-connection icons aren’t hidden by overlay UI. We will be much more successful if we have a complete picture of any defect.

Thanks again!


thank you! finally a bluepost! hopefully the next major patch is coming out soonish.
09/22/2017 11:20 AMPosted by Jessicka
Thanks for the explanation, but how does this account for the shots made I posted in this thread below, where I hit the Genji all good, but Genji also kills me?

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20758316460#post-1

That's specific to Genji's dash and (I think) has nothing to do with the hit detection issues of this thread. The guy below your post basically answered it. Genji's dash goes its full course and deals damage even if he dies in the middle of it. Happens to me all the time playing Widow against him, and I have at least 2 clips on my PC showing the same thing.
I have this issue sometimes too:

When playing Mercy and shooting at enemies that try to kill me I get like 3 headshot / normal hit markers + blood and "splash" effect and they don't get any damage, sometimes it get really ridiculous because it happens so often in a row like for example a few minutes ago I played Roadhog, I hooked pilot D.Va, shot her directly in the face and got hit markers and so on but she didn't get damage, shot again and hit her but still no damage, next shot the same thing happened and in all that time she was able to regain her mech, this is completely game breaking and must be fixed immediately.
09/22/2017 11:09 AMPosted by Tim Ford
Hey everyone,
Thank you consolidating all these videos. Having access to hard evidence, in context, is immeasurably useful. We’d like to give you an update of where we stand with respect to hit registration issues. I’ll group these issues into three buckets:

  • Issues where we understand the problem and are working on a fix
  • Issues for which we have a fix on deck or a recently deployed fix
  • Issues which are not defects, but deliberate trade-offs against “favor the shooter”

Let’s look at each of these in turn. The biggest outstanding issue emerges from how we reconcile lost player input on the server. Whenever your input doesn’t make it consistently to the server because of connection inconsistency, there’s a chance that the server will not replicate your aim synchronized with when you pressed the fire button. This error is exacerbated by recoil-based weapons, since your aim will certainly have changed the frame after you fire a recoiling weapon. If the server doesn’t honor your aim direction at the moment you fired because of packet loss, you will very likely mispredict. We are actively investigating a fix for this, which we hope to deploy with the next major patch. We’ve also identified and have a potential fix for any false hit registration in kill cam, highlights PoTG or spectator views. We’re continuing to test the fix, and we hope to deploy it with the next major patch as well.

We have a fix for a host of Hanzo related mispredict issues. We identified a defect in how we processed successive shots after poor network conditions affected prior shots. The Hanzo fix will go live with the next major patch. In addition, we deployed a fix where a target’s collision could be displaced from where they were drawn on screen by as much as 16 milliseconds in the 1.15 build. In our 1.14 build, we fixed a bug where your player position (and therefore your gun position) would have mispredicted shots when you were moving in close proximity to other players. This bug primarily affected our close-range hit-scan heroes like Reaper and Roadhog.

Finally, there are a handful of videos in this thread that demonstrate some of the deliberate trade-offs we made against our “Favor the Shooter” philosophy. Any shot mispredicted against a dashing Genji, Mercy, Tracer or Doomfist is deliberate. A handful of other abilities exhibit this behavior as well (Winston/Pharah Leap, Sombra translocate, etc.) We have rules in place where we will not favor the shooter if your target executes one of these maneuvers. This is a trade-off that we have made to accommodate the realities of the internet.

From the data we have collected, none of these issues are new; all of them have been in the game since Beta. We enjoy a very passionate community that does a fine job scrutinizing our game, and we humbly and graciously accept the challenge to reach the high bar you have set. Please continue to send us videos. If possible, please find videos where the network-connection icons aren’t hidden by overlay UI. We will be much more successful if we have a complete picture of any defect.

Thanks again!


What about server improvements? 128 tick? Lootbox money must be good for something...
09/22/2017 11:20 AMPosted by Jessicka
09/22/2017 11:09 AMPosted by Tim Ford
Finally, there are a handful of videos in this thread that demonstrate some of the deliberate trade-offs we made against our “Favor the Shooter” philosophy. Any shot mispredicted against a dashing Genji, Mercy, Tracer or Doomfist is deliberate.

Thanks for the explanation, but how does this account for the shots made I posted in this thread below, where I hit the Genji all good, but Genji also kills me?

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20758316460#post-1


Thanks for this! That's a bug with Genji's Dash itself. For a very brief period of time, it can still deal damage after Genji has died. We'll get a fix for that one, soon.
09/22/2017 11:58 AMPosted by Tim Ford
09/22/2017 11:20 AMPosted by Jessicka
...
Thanks for the explanation, but how does this account for the shots made I posted in this thread below, where I hit the Genji all good, but Genji also kills me?

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20758316460#post-1


Thanks for this! That's a bug with Genji's Dash itself. For a very brief period of time, it can still deal damage after Genji has died. We'll get a fix for that one, soon.

wow you guys at blizzard are in good mood today! thats awesome! as someone who loves playing hanzo. next major patch (hopefully) sounds amazing already.
09/22/2017 11:09 AMPosted by Tim Ford
Hey everyone,
Thank you consolidating all these videos. Having access to hard evidence, in context, is immeasurably useful. We’d like to give you an update of where we stand with respect to hit registration issues. I’ll group these issues into three buckets:

  • Issues where we understand the problem and are working on a fix
  • Issues for which we have a fix on deck or a recently deployed fix
  • Issues which are not defects, but deliberate trade-offs against “favor the shooter”

Let’s look at each of these in turn. The biggest outstanding issue emerges from how we reconcile lost player input on the server. Whenever your input doesn’t make it consistently to the server because of connection inconsistency, there’s a chance that the server will not replicate your aim synchronized with when you pressed the fire button. This error is exacerbated by recoil-based weapons, since your aim will certainly have changed the frame after you fire a recoiling weapon. If the server doesn’t honor your aim direction at the moment you fired because of packet loss, you will very likely mispredict. We are actively investigating a fix for this, which we hope to deploy with the next major patch. We’ve also identified and have a potential fix for any false hit registration in kill cam, highlights PoTG or spectator views. We’re continuing to test the fix, and we hope to deploy it with the next major patch as well.

We have a fix for a host of Hanzo related mispredict issues. We identified a defect in how we processed successive shots after poor network conditions affected prior shots. The Hanzo fix will go live with the next major patch. In addition, we deployed a fix where a target’s collision could be displaced from where they were drawn on screen by as much as 16 milliseconds in the 1.15 build. In our 1.14 build, we fixed a bug where your player position (and therefore your gun position) would have mispredicted shots when you were moving in close proximity to other players. This bug primarily affected our close-range hit-scan heroes like Reaper and Roadhog.

Finally, there are a handful of videos in this thread that demonstrate some of the deliberate trade-offs we made against our “Favor the Shooter” philosophy. Any shot mispredicted against a dashing Genji, Mercy, Tracer or Doomfist is deliberate. A handful of other abilities exhibit this behavior as well (Winston/Pharah Leap, Sombra translocate, etc.) We have rules in place where we will not favor the shooter if your target executes one of these maneuvers. This is a trade-off that we have made to accommodate the realities of the internet.

From the data we have collected, none of these issues are new; all of them have been in the game since Beta. We enjoy a very passionate community that does a fine job scrutinizing our game, and we humbly and graciously accept the challenge to reach the high bar you have set. Please continue to send us videos. If possible, please find videos where the network-connection icons aren’t hidden by overlay UI. We will be much more successful if we have a complete picture of any defect.

Thanks again!


I have always hated favor the shooter. It's the worst.
09/22/2017 11:58 AMPosted by Tim Ford
09/22/2017 11:20 AMPosted by Jessicka
...
Thanks for the explanation, but how does this account for the shots made I posted in this thread below, where I hit the Genji all good, but Genji also kills me?

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20758316460#post-1


Thanks for this! That's a bug with Genji's Dash itself. For a very brief period of time, it can still deal damage after Genji has died. We'll get a fix for that one, soon.


YES! Thanks :)
Can we also get an ACTUAL fix to Genji`s blade reg?
09/22/2017 11:09 AMPosted by Tim Ford
The biggest outstanding issue emerges from how we reconcile lost player input on the server. Whenever your input doesn’t make it consistently to the server because of connection inconsistency, there’s a chance that the server will not replicate your aim synchronized with when you pressed the fire button. This error is exacerbated by recoil-based weapons, since your aim will certainly have changed the frame after you fire a recoiling weapon. If the server doesn’t honor your aim direction at the moment you fired because of packet loss, you will very likely mispredict. We are actively investigating a fix for this, which we hope to deploy with the next major patch.


Don't you have the technology to make this work?

You can use the new free-cam with Reinhardt, just slightly modified -- when firing a shot, for two seconds after, switch to the free-cam with the camera recoil animation before returning back to the default camera.

That way the original aiming coordinates are more closely preserved during network fluctuation, because the camera recoil doesn't adjust the actual aim, but you still get to keep the recoil animation to give the illusion of recoil.

09/22/2017 11:09 AMPosted by Tim Ford
Finally, there are a handful of videos in this thread that demonstrate some of the deliberate trade-offs we made against our “Favor the Shooter” philosophy. Any shot mispredicted against a dashing Genji, Mercy, Tracer or Doomfist is deliberate. A handful of other abilities exhibit this behavior as well (Winston/Pharah Leap, Sombra translocate, etc.) We have rules in place where we will not favor the shooter if your target executes one of these maneuvers. This is a trade-off that we have made to accommodate the realities of the internet.


So wait... the "invincibility" frames Genji and Mercy get on Swift Strike/Guardian Angel activation is intentional?

Especially since Genji's Swift Strike is a damaging ability, and Genji players will use their attack to go straight at Widow or McCree, how is it fair that he temporarily has a disabled favor the shooter? Often the moment he activates Swift Strike is the only opportunity hitscan players have to shoot him down (Widow's damage charge, McCree lining up the shot).

Also, for reference, Winston/Pharah leaps have never been an issue, and Sombra's translocate, since it was patched to avoid deaths through the teleport, hasn't been an issue. They may follow the same rules, programmatically, but they've never just absorbed a shot.
<span class="truncated">...</span>
Thanks for the explanation, but how does this account for the shots made I posted in this thread below, where I hit the Genji all good, but Genji also kills me?

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20758316460#post-1


Thanks for this! That's a bug with Genji's Dash itself. For a very brief period of time, it can still deal damage after Genji has died. We'll get a fix for that one, soon.


Nice!!

Also plz fix the big hitbox on dash, ultimate and deflect on genji!

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20758855848?page=1

=)
How "Favor the shooter" is implemented when you shot and the hit dont register? i mean... that's not favorable at all.

Maybe you should call it: "You shot, our servers "meh" "
09/22/2017 12:29 PMPosted by BrokenStylus
Also, for reference, Winston/Pharah leaps have never been an issue, and Sombra's translocate, since it was patched to avoid deaths through the teleport, hasn't been an issue. They may follow the same rules, programmatically, but they've never just absorbed a shot.


Huh, this went in a different direction that I was expecting.

So you're saying that the problem is not that Genji dash doesn't register when he gets hit, but you're saying the problem is that when Genji doesn't get hit, he still blocks the shot preventing someone behind him from getting hit?

That's a pretty subtle bug if that's what it is. Good catch.
As Pharah I notice that my missiles will sometimes disappear if I die shortly after firing them.
We have rules in place where we will not favor the shooter if your target executes one of these maneuvers. This is a trade-off that we have made to accommodate the realities of the internet.


Stop this immediately. I knew I wasn't imagining the stupid hero interactions I've been experiencing.
09/22/2017 12:41 PMPosted by Crilanzelot
How "Favor the shooter" is implemented when you shot and the hit dont register? i mean... that's not favorable at all.

Maybe you should call it: "You shot, our servers "meh" "


I was surprised by that too, but it makes sense.

He's saying that if the server detects a tie, certain abilities are favored higher than "shooting." Genji dash, Tracer blink, Winston/Pharah jump, etc. In that case, the movement ability is considered the "shooter" and it gets the benefit of the doubt. The dasher/jumper is favored.

Then I expect after that check is made another check is made for shooting against ordinary movement. In that case, the literal shooter is favored. Etc. It's a pretty easy algorithm but seems reasonable because you'd expect a fast moving Genji to be able to leap out of the way of danger.
09/22/2017 12:41 PMPosted by Gojira
09/22/2017 12:29 PMPosted by BrokenStylus
Also, for reference, Winston/Pharah leaps have never been an issue, and Sombra's translocate, since it was patched to avoid deaths through the teleport, hasn't been an issue. They may follow the same rules, programmatically, but they've never just absorbed a shot.


Huh, this went in a different direction that I was expecting.

So you're saying that the problem is not that Genji dash doesn't register when he gets hit, but you're saying the problem is that when Genji doesn't get hit, he still blocks the shot preventing someone behind him from getting hit?

That's a pretty subtle bug if that's what it is. Good catch.


Genji basically has invincibility frames when he uses Swift Strike, for like... one or two frames on startup. Mercy too.

They should be dead from the shot, but they aren't. They absorb the shot, much like Transcendence (intentionally invincible) Zenyatta will absorb a shot.

I've never had an issue with Winston, Pharah, Sombra (post-teledeath fix) or even Tracer (and she's the hardest to hit out of all of them). It's just specifically Mercy and Genji that I've observed that sort of behavior.
09/22/2017 11:58 AMPosted by Tim Ford
09/22/2017 11:20 AMPosted by Jessicka
...
Thanks for the explanation, but how does this account for the shots made I posted in this thread below, where I hit the Genji all good, but Genji also kills me?

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20758316460#post-1


Thanks for this! That's a bug with Genji's Dash itself. For a very brief period of time, it can still deal damage after Genji has died. We'll get a fix for that one, soon.

Sorry about being petty here, but it doesn't seem to me, that his dash deals damage for a brief period of time after he is dead.
From what I can tell from the video, he seems to be doing the damage instantly across the entire length of the dash, even though he didn't pass through the target yet.
Even the animation of the dash itself is not a trail after Genji, but from what I can tell it actually preceeds him...

I am wondering thogh. If we're going for realism, if a cyborg ninja was a thing and was moving through the air at such a speed, and was shot mid flight, even if he died, wouldn't his speed allow his dead boddy to still hit the widow... maybe not with the wakizashi, but with his body. Maybe if he dies mid flight, he should still hit the target, but at reduced damage?
OMG, Finally!!
09/22/2017 11:09 AMPosted by Tim Ford
From the data we have collected, none of these issues are new; all of them have been in the game since Beta.


Well then you must have done something since the Doomfist and prior patches that exponentially exacerbated the issue.

But anyway, as long as you guys acknowledged it and assured us you're working on a fix I'm a happy camper

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