Dev/Pro/Streamer Exclusive Discord feels wrong

General Discussion
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If the devs balanced the game around the concerns of players playing at lowest level of play, the game would be in far worse of a state than it currently is. While that's not to say that all low skilled players give bad feedback, their perspective of the game is far different than that of someone playing at the highest level of play.

As painful as it is to swallow, the feedback of a GM player is going to carry more weight than that over a Silver player. It's not discrimination, it's just common sense.
10/06/2017 05:51 PMPosted by GrantMan
While I agree with you (I think.. kinda just skimmed it), I think opening the discord to the public would be an awful idea.. It would be total chaos, and it would make their discord unusable.

If they implemented something like a representative system, where a few normal players could join and be the voice of the common player, that might work, but that might also be a bit tedious for everyone, as it would probably involve voting, and lots of other government type stuff..

Another (probably better than the representative thing) solution is for any thread where the opening post gets, say, 150 or so net upvotes gets posted in their discord by a bot. That would give the threads that lots of people agree on a good chance to be seen by the devs.


It's worth mentioning that LoL has an official Discord server that tons of people use, as well as Riot employees. Granted, it just got one Rioter fired, it still seems to be well moderated, and things remain pretty civil in there. I think an open Discord community is definitely doable.
10/06/2017 05:39 PMPosted by keeeyt
yes, even when we wouldnt be able to write on discord.. i would like to see what they talk about and see their communication so we can talk about it as a whole on the forums.


Transparency is definitely the best solution here.

They could turn this into a great community outreach opportunity.

Call them "Developer Talks" or something similar. Have a few developers speaking with a few pros about a pressing community issue.

Have them streamed. Record them and post them on the BattleNet interface and Youtube.

Sure, some players might still feel like there's some "secret talks" going on, but at the very least you're likely to reduce that as being a general sentiment.

Sure, some players might get upset over opinions expressed in the talks, but I feel you could also spark some good discussions and perhaps share some insights that others might not have considered.

From time to time they might even invite forum users who make good posts or spark good discussions onto the stream via Discord, phone, or Skype.

You obviously couldn't invite every good poster on, but the fact that there's a chance you might get an invite provides a way to incentivize positive forum behaviors and constructive discussion.

Imagine people going "Hey I remember that thread!" or "Oh wow, that was a good point". Give people a chance to have a time in the spotlight for sharing something constructive.
10/06/2017 05:55 PMPosted by Rax
If the devs balanced the game around the concerns of players playing at lowest level of play, the game would be in far worse of a state than it currently is. While that's not to say that all low skilled players give bad feedback, their perspective of the game is far different than that of someone playing at the highest level of play.

As painful as it is to swallow, the feedback of a GM player is going to carry more weight than that over a Silver player. It's not discrimination, it's just common sense.


Because someone who's in the top tenth of 1% totally wants to represent the entire game's population, and totally won't attempt to get benefits that only affect them as the top tenth of 1%.

That totally doesn't happen anywhere else in life. /s

10/06/2017 06:00 PMPosted by Rax
10/06/2017 05:51 PMPosted by GrantMan
While I agree with you (I think.. kinda just skimmed it), I think opening the discord to the public would be an awful idea.. It would be total chaos, and it would make their discord unusable.

If they implemented something like a representative system, where a few normal players could join and be the voice of the common player, that might work, but that might also be a bit tedious for everyone, as it would probably involve voting, and lots of other government type stuff..

Another (probably better than the representative thing) solution is for any thread where the opening post gets, say, 150 or so net upvotes gets posted in their discord by a bot. That would give the threads that lots of people agree on a good chance to be seen by the devs.


It's worth mentioning that LoL has an official Discord server that tons of people use, as well as Riot employees. Granted, it just got one Rioter fired, it still seems to be well moderated, and things remain pretty civil in there. I think an open Discord community is definitely doable.


Are you playing devil's advocate here? Or do you also dislike the exclusivity? I don't know which.
They have no choice but to pick and choose. An official Overwatch Discord open to everyone, specifically one made with the idea of taking player feedback, would be completely unusable. The unfortunate side effect of Blizzard portraying a spirit of openness with the community is that suddenly everyone's a balance expert. Literally everyone here has a hundred ideas about how the game is being ruined and what they'd do to fix it. With a fanbase this big and this... dedicated, a Discord server is completely untenable to keep up with.

It's bad enough here on a forum where it's somewhat possible for them to filter through the chaff and moderate in this format.
10/06/2017 06:04 PMPosted by BrokenStylus
10/06/2017 05:55 PMPosted by Rax
If the devs balanced the game around the concerns of players playing at lowest level of play, the game would be in far worse of a state than it currently is. While that's not to say that all low skilled players give bad feedback, their perspective of the game is far different than that of someone playing at the highest level of play.

As painful as it is to swallow, the feedback of a GM player is going to carry more weight than that over a Silver player. It's not discrimination, it's just common sense.


Because someone who's in the top tenth of 1% totally wants to represent the entire game's population, and totally won't attempt to get benefits that only affect them as the top tenth of 1%.

That totally doesn't happen anywhere else in life. /s

10/06/2017 06:00 PMPosted by Rax
...

It's worth mentioning that LoL has an official Discord server that tons of people use, as well as Riot employees. Granted, it just got one Rioter fired, it still seems to be well moderated, and things remain pretty civil in there. I think an open Discord community is definitely doable.


Are you playing devil's advocate here? Or do you also dislike the exclusivity? I don't know which.
You realize, if you balance around the good players, all the bad players have the potential to become good right? It gives them motivation, something to attain. When you balance around bad players, you're just bringing all the good players down to the level of the bad players and then there's a limit that can be reached and there becomes no more improvement.
A public Discord isn't such an impossibility.

Give MVP's privileges to silence and/or ban people and they'll be a lot of moderators around. If it becomes clear toxic commentary isn't tolerated the tone of the conversations will be a lot more civil.

A public Discord like this could also be quite valuable to Overwatch. With a distinct lack of social tools available, it could easily become a positive place for groups to form, find new friends, discuss (civilly or be banned) issues, etc.

Who knows, if the environment isn't a toxic wasteland, you might even get more Blizzard people showing their faces.
How would this help though?
I highly doubt changing the format in which we communicate our opinions to the devs, would increase the amount of interaction we recieve.

Besides you answered why the Devs prefer to interact with the pros in your original post.
10/06/2017 04:54 PMPosted by BrokenStylus

I also think that the members of the OW dev team that don't participate in the forums, are more willing to respond to players on that exclusive Discord channel instead of the forums, because the Discord channel has more frank and earnest messages and a "safer" environment that won't have the same amount of toxicity as the forums.


Exactly. These forums are scary.

Take a look. A lot of post that voice why they don't agree with something or don't like this buff or this nerf are extremely hostile.
People just love to say that Blizz is terrible at balancing, call out devs, call characters OP, jump on the hate train, ridicule those that play a certain hero, etc.

When they don't get what they want. "I'M QUITTING OVERWATCH!!!QQ"
"MY HERO IS RUINED!!!!" "OVERWATCH SUCKS!!!"
The OW forums are literally known as the place to go to complain about Overwatch. Sadly, that's true.
Rarely do we see post thanking or congratulating Blizzard for a much needed fix or change.

Something tells me that when Seagull thinks a character is too strong, Blizz doesn't gets a discord notification reading: "OMFG THIS HERO IS SUCH A BROKEN POS, WHY HAS IT TAKEN SO LONG TO FIX THEM BLIZZZZZZZZ??? WE'RE ABOUT TO THROW HANDS JEFF!!!!!!!HJGYJUDFYSDRYgenjiOPSDUOR%&BVT"

So yea, that's probably one of the biggest reasons that a private Discord exists only for the pros. (Besides the fact that they play this game for a living.)
10/06/2017 05:00 PMPosted by Raz
Oh yes. I'm sure they'd love a discord version of these forums.

500 people "WHY U CHANGE MERCY BLIZZARD I HATE YOU."

Sounds like it'd be super fun to moderate.


Or they could set up a vetting process like the other games I have on Discord that give me direct access to the devs and others on the team (ever get to talk to the art people and ask questions? always enjoy seeing their input) to chat with occasionally and have questions.

But it will never happen. Blizzard relies too much on twitter and after what happened with Ghostcrawler, honestly, the Overwatch community is damn lucky the devs even get to respond to them from time to time. Hell, in WoW, you don't even get to see the world moderators anymore. I was regaled with stories of them showing up and spawning monsters in SW or Org, walking around with the 'common folk' and generally being a present force. Now? Nope, once in a Haley's Comet during a blue moon.
We don't run or own any Discord server. Some developers were invited into a Discord server run by the Pro Community.

If you think there is a productive Discord, fansite, forum or any other community we should be paying attention to, by all means, post a link.
10/06/2017 06:19 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
We don't run or own any Discord server. Some developers were invited into a Discord server run by the Pro Community.

If you think there is a productive Discord, fansite, forum or any other community we should be paying attention to, by all means, post a link.


Good Man
10/06/2017 06:05 PMPosted by Sneepy
An official Overwatch Discord open to everyone, specifically one made with the idea of taking player feedback, would be completely unusable.

Tell that to League of Legends Discord and Fortnite Discord, made by two equally impressive giants in the video game industry.

Also, another thing... how is it that Discord is any worse than the forums?

If anything, it's better. You're getting messages in real time. No need to refresh a web page, it's updated automatically. Urgency becomes a thing.

Don't like seeing meme posts? Filter them out with bots.

Signal-to-noise? How hard is it to scroll past the post you know to ignore?

Running into issues where you can't reproduce bugs? Reach out to the player directly and have them upload files directly, or have native video players within the text channels to view video evidence with ease.

Everything about a public Discord is just the same thing we have on Reddit or these forums but instead it's automated, in one spot, and faster -- with a guarantee that Blizzard would be actually looking and reading it.
10/06/2017 06:19 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
If you think there is a productive Discord, fansite, forum or any other community we should be paying attention to, by all means, post a link.

Gladly.

Fortnite: Battle Royale's Discord server

https://discordapp.com/invite/nhdbr8d

League of Legends Discord server

https://discordapp.com/invite/0gqfewWcRxU8di5X

These two servers are pretty shining examples of what is possible with a public Discord server. I think Blizzard would do well to follow suit.
10/06/2017 06:19 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
We don't run or own any Discord server. Some developers were invited into a Discord server run by the Pro Community.

If you think there is a productive Discord, fansite, forum or any other community we should be paying attention to, by all means, post a link.
I know you and I'm sure many members of your team frequent the two subreddits, especially https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/ , is it possible to post more? If not would it be farfetched to hire a community manager to communicate with us more if the team is busy working on the game? Or perhaps get Zoevia to interact more? I'm extremely happy for their involvement as the CM of OWL but I feel a CM for the overall community especially the competitive environment, not just a small subset league focused on tournament play, would be highly beneficial.
10/06/2017 06:23 PMPosted by BrokenStylus
10/06/2017 06:19 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
We don't run or own any Discord server. Some developers were invited into a Discord server run by the Pro Community.

If you think there is a productive Discord, fansite, forum or any other community we should be paying attention to, by all means, post a link.

Gladly.

Fortnite: Battle Royale's Discord server

https://discordapp.com/invite/nhdbr8d

League of Legends Discord server

https://discordapp.com/invite/0gqfewWcRxU8di5X


I think Jeff meant an Overwatch community that he and other ow devs should pay attention to.

You just made an argument why the most trash feedback usually come from casuals.
10/06/2017 06:26 PMPosted by poochie
You just made an argument why the most trash feedback usually come from casuals.


Thanks for calling me trash/casual, but if you recall what I said in the OP, I said explicitly;

10/06/2017 04:54 PMPosted by BrokenStylus
When Epic Games released their Fortnite: Battle Royale mode, they opened a public Discord server to all players. They're completely transparent, and invite players to join the Discord server in first-party media.

They're setting a good example.

I believe the OW dev team should follow suit.
10/06/2017 06:28 PMPosted by BrokenStylus
10/06/2017 06:26 PMPosted by poochie
You just made an argument why the most trash feedback usually come from casuals.


Thanks for calling me trash/casual, but if you recall what I said in the OP, I said explicitly;

10/06/2017 04:54 PMPosted by BrokenStylus
When Epic Games released their Fortnite: Battle Royale mode, they opened a public Discord server to all players. They're completely transparent, and invite players to join the Discord server in first-party media.

They're setting a good example.

I believe the OW dev team should follow suit.
A lot of games in Beta are frequently transparent, I don't think its right to compare until after the game is released and then see how transparent they really are.
10/06/2017 06:26 PMPosted by poochie
You just made an argument why the most trash feedback usually come from casuals.


Thanks for calling me trash/casual, but if you recall what I said in the OP, I said explicitly;


I said your feedback is trash because you expect Jeff and ow devs to spend time in the communities of other games, especially non-blizzard ones.
10/06/2017 06:30 PMPosted by Hobotripin
A lot of games in Beta are frequently transparent, I don't think its right to compare until after the game is released and then see how transparent they really are.

If you look in the Fortnite Discord link, you'll see that there are 13 Epic Games employees that are integrated into the Discord server that have admin rights. They have the whole thing under control.

It's going to be really hard to backtrack and shut down that Discord server after the beta period ends. I'm sure it will be supported well after the game has exited its beta period.

And the League of Legends Discord is pretty telling of the type of support you can see for a non-beta game.
10/06/2017 05:00 PMPosted by Raz
Oh yes. I'm sure they'd love a discord version of these forums.

500 people "WHY U CHANGE MERCY BLIZZARD I HATE YOU."

Sounds like it'd be super fun to moderate.


lol. agree with op

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