Why genji is one of the most hated heroes in the game

General Discussion
09/17/2017 07:28 PMPosted by CaptPlanet
Not only is he one of the hardest heroes to hit in the game, but you also have to be afraid of shooting him - that's just stupid.

I dislike the deflect mechanic in concept, but I'd be much less salty about it if it were on a hero like Reinhardt.

This!!!!
The concept of deflect is by far the dumbest addition to OW. You have a hero that has a sliver of a hitbox to start, then proceed to give him the best mobility in the game, further make him harder to hit by giving him double/triple jump that hides his critbox completely and shrinks his hitbox even further, but then do something extra stupid by giving him the best defensive move in the game. A move so powerful that anyone who knows how to play the game is afraid to even shoot at him.
And you know what Genji mains and Blizz's response/excuse for this is? Dont throw your ult or shoot at him if you dont know if he has reflect up lol.

You do manage to trick him into deflecting... it means nothing. He just cancels and dashing you for dmg and starts hitting you in the back.
He starts to attack you so you fire back? NOPE, SORRY. YOU CANT DO THAT. Genji has no counter play. He just cancels the animations of his throw and insta deflects and you are dead. Great job Blizz. Great job.
You along the people who voted your misleading post needs to understand this.
FROM WHAT YOU LISTED:
highest movement speed in the game
-has the ability to reflect ultimates
-Can't be outpaced if played well
-Has one of if not the best ult in the game
-Can kill heroes quickly with combos
-Broken hit boxes for his abilities
-ult refund is also one but this has more to do with how the game works
and not another buff that they gave him

The CON to what you listed:

1. Genji has 6 Movement Speed - Just like Tracer, Downside to tracer, she has 150hp because of her ability to gap close and escape, GENJI has ONE active ability and ONE passive. You aim good enough Genji is defenseless, Tracer has a chance. (Yes Deflect, I'll get to that later).
Yes , deflect the thing that makes this argument useless

Certainly when you've already said that shooting at genji while deflecting is stupid

Now in that time frame ganji can be A) healed B)shielded


2. YES he can be outpaced, track great enough with a Tracer/Sombra and he's dead. Play winston and play around his Swift Strike and he's dead. Play Ana (Believe it or not shes a counter) and he's dead, play Soldier and actually dodge his shuriken and drop your heal when he swift strikes you and he's dead. Play McCree and shoot him as you move and when he does a gap closer you stun and headshot. You aim good enough, Genji can be outpaced.
Hahaha sombra it's true that she is great but no one plays her or knows how to play with her
If tracer is in that situation then she is probably not doing her job.

'Yea just play around it' same argument that roadhogs used before he got gutted

'Just dodge it'^

In theory this is true in practise it's much harder to do than it takes genji to pressure a mc into doing it


3. He has one of the best skills in the game (potential team kill ability), so does reaper, so does soldier, so does mccree, so does pharah, what he lacks is range, and if you are bunched up or SAME GOES FOR EVERY HERO LISTED, if you don't immediately tend to Genji, he deserves the multi kill. NOT because of his ability to do so, it's because of YOUR ability of failing to apprehend him before hand. This requires aim and positioning, btw, his ability gets counteracted by 2 ulties, SAME AS ANY OTHER ULTIMATES that renders them useless.
Since when can mc team kill with a flash
And isn't this a strawman or whatever it's called


4. You've gotta be kidding right? His only OUTPUT damage ability is his damn Swift Strike - 50dmg cooldown of 8 Seconds, his only sustain ability is which is useless UNLESS his enemy is dumb enough to hit it (in which cases people rage about his ability to deflect, when really, the genji player's ability to know when to deflect is also an ultimate factor on AIMING it and TIMING it.)yes but you don't need more than one ability to form a combo
Sorry but there are times where the human reaction time isn't fast enough to be able to react in time


5. Deflect only has the only slight hitbox bug. Saying any other abilities is totally false. You should play genji in the training ground for a bit

6. Yes, because if he has MORE than enough time-to-kill vulnerability (refer to Overwatch's dev interviews about this), I would destroy any Genji that is pitted against me by simply aiming and timing. If he cannot reset his ability to Swift Strike, you will be seeing Genji using his ability in conjunction with Zarya's ulti, so he falls into the category of what he shouldn't be in. Uniqueness isn't probable in Overwatch anymore. What does this have to do with genji refunding his ult upon being killed when he starts it

Your last statement - "Well I've heard low damage a few times but those people forget that you only need a slight burst of damage to get a kill."

IS THE ONLY thing you've got confirming ONE thing that resonates to how ineffective Genji can be in terms of Pro-Con in almost EVERY circumstances and scenarios where a Genji may seem "OP" to players he gives a hard time on. That is Aiming.

My brain hurts from reading that
I don't like genji for two reasons. One he's incredibly difficult to hit both as an enemy and an ally. Second his deflect hitbox is so absurdly large its completely broken, its astonishing how it has not been fixed yet.
09/17/2017 07:30 PMPosted by Skrimiche
-Extreme ability reliant (hacked = dead)

[/quote]

I can say that unless you have godly tracking and you catch Genji away from walls/ledges, then this is really hard. Not impossible, but really effing hard to reliably kill him after hacking him.
I prefer Genji, than his weeb, huntard brother anyday.
09/17/2017 09:05 PMPosted by Acanarina
I prefer Genji, than his weeb, huntard brother anyday.

genjis as-...tonishing personality is better anyway
09/17/2017 09:05 PMPosted by Acanarina
I prefer Genji, than his weeb, huntard brother anyday.
True, but wouldn't you like arrows that have the same impact as a shotgun rather than some shurikens.
09/17/2017 08:55 PMPosted by Deadman
I don't like genji for two reasons. One he's incredibly difficult to hit both as an enemy and an ally. Second his deflect hitbox is so absurdly large its completely broken, its astonishing how it has not been fixed yet.


It's almost as if Genji gets preferential treatment...
09/17/2017 07:39 PMPosted by Atrophy
[quote]Cons:
-Bad sustain (he was a trollpick during trip tank)
Wait he couldn't kill heroes that had over 200 hp that were also getting healed

What ?!!


-Bad at range (no dropoff =/= being good at range, his shurikens are one of the easiest weapons to dodge and his primary is one of the hardest things to use in the game) Well I'm pretty sure that he's not meant to be played at long ranges so what's your point

-His only form of protection is cancellable and can be bypassed by the primary fire of four other heroes (half of those heroes are hot garbage against everything else, but it's still technically a counter)
Considering that like you said most of those are hot garbage than it would be a dumb idea to have them on your team

-Extreme ability reliant (hacked = dead)
Like everyone else ?

-Inconsistent damage for the most part
He doesn't need consistent damage he just needs a burst of it

-Assuming both teams are of (nearly) equal skill, dependent on opponents being distracted by someone else to do his job In theory yes
in practice this never actually happens


-Dblade is the only reason to pick him over Tracer as she has more consistent damage, is less team reliant, has self-sustain, and can therefore stay in the backline longer. and yet he has a higher win/pick rate

He definitely has weaknesses, there's just very few heroes that are able to take advantage of them.
again like you said the heroes that do take advantage of them are hot garbage

Your words not mine

That's still a weakness... Heroes like Reaper, Junk, etc. are very effective against tanks. Genji and Tracer thrive against squishies. If you run a tank-heavy comp against the two flankers then they won't get much done, just like how doing the opposite would apply for Reaper/Junk.

My point is that being bad at range = a weakness... Outrange him and he can't do much.

Mei and Symm are bad, Zarya and Winston aren't. You can still run the latter two (and since they're both tanks Genji can't 1v1 them safely).

A lot of heroes don't rely on their abilities much to be effective (e.g. McCree). Genji's base DPS is low, hence why he has such a strong kit as a compensation. If you hack him then all he has are has shurikens and a little (somewhat situational) mobility. A hacked McCree can still get things done, but a hacked Genji can't.

If you can't burst someone down then you won't be effective as Genji. Again, this is why he performs poorly against tanks. He needs to kill people quickly to get anything done. Soldier has sustain, so even if you're going against trip tank you can still kill things.

You can blame matchmaking for that, not Genji. If matches were actually fair then nothing would seem as OP as everyone claims.

Because Genji is a pubstomper and has a lower skill floor. If Tracer had a lower skill floor then you can bet that she'd be more used. Plus, people just like playing as a cyborg ninja.

Those heroes should be buffed then instead of nerfing the one mid-tier hero...
09/18/2017 05:51 AMPosted by Skrimiche
09/17/2017 07:39 PMPosted by Atrophy
[quote]Cons:
-Bad sustain (he was a trollpick during trip tank)
Wait he couldn't kill heroes that had over 200 hp that were also getting healed

What ?!!


-Bad at range (no dropoff =/= being good at range, his shurikens are one of the easiest weapons to dodge and his primary is one of the hardest things to use in the game) Well I'm pretty sure that he's not meant to be played at long ranges so what's your point

-His only form of protection is cancellable and can be bypassed by the primary fire of four other heroes (half of those heroes are hot garbage against everything else, but it's still technically a counter)
Considering that like you said most of those are hot garbage than it would be a dumb idea to have them on your team

-Extreme ability reliant (hacked = dead)
Like everyone else ?

-Inconsistent damage for the most part
He doesn't need consistent damage he just needs a burst of it

-Assuming both teams are of (nearly) equal skill, dependent on opponents being distracted by someone else to do his job In theory yes
in practice this never actually happens


-Dblade is the only reason to pick him over Tracer as she has more consistent damage, is less team reliant, has self-sustain, and can therefore stay in the backline longer. and yet he has a higher win/pick rate

He definitely has weaknesses, there's just very few heroes that are able to take advantage of them.
again like you said the heroes that do take advantage of them are hot garbage

Your words not mine

That's still a weakness... Heroes like Reaper, Junk, etc. are very effective against tanks. Genji and Tracer thrive against squishies. If you run a tank-heavy comp against the two flankers then they won't get much done, just like how doing the opposite would apply for Reaper/Junk.

My point is that being bad at range = a weakness... Outrange him and he can't do much.

Mei and Symm are bad, Zarya and Winston aren't. You can still run the latter two (and since they're both tanks Genji can't 1v1 them safely).

A lot of heroes don't rely on their abilities much to be effective (e.g. McCree). Genji's base DPS is low, hence why he has such a strong kit as a compensation. If you hack him then all he has are has shurikens and a little (somewhat situational) mobility. A hacked McCree can still get things done, but a hacked Genji can't.

If you can't burst someone down then you won't be effective as Genji. Again, this is why he performs poorly against tanks. He needs to kill people quickly to get anything done. Soldier has sustain, so even if you're going against trip tank you can still kill things.

You can blame matchmaking for that, not Genji. If matches were actually fair then nothing would seem as OP as everyone claims.

Because Genji is a pubstomper and has a lower skill floor. If Tracer had a lower skill floor then you can bet that she'd be more used. Plus, people just like playing as a cyborg ninja.

Those heroes should be buffed then instead of nerfing the one mid-tier hero...

You're right with Reaper because he was designed to be a tank buster
Even though you're also right with junk he isn't actually in the dps category

and again that's not a weakness because genji's targets don't usually consist of tanks
He only needs to kill key supports or dps players

A) he has one of the best gap closers in the game B) what is he doing trying to kill anyone at long range.

That's true but he doesn't need to
Tanks aren't Genji focus

I want to make 2 points here

A) most heroes are ability reliant B) Sombra is in 1% of game
Now if the genji isn't distracted or caught of gaurd her hack will rarely ever land

So yea I quess that is indeed a weakness that doesn't show itself

ever

He doesn't need to god damn kill tanks
Triple tank has been dead for months dude get with the times

In the ideal world yea
but in this world the mm system is broke

So you're supporting my argument
Great

The problem is that it's much easier for a group of people to come together to nerf/buff one hero than it is to nerf/buff multiple heroes.

Blizzard isn't really known to being able to listen to more than a few suggestions at a time

Now if you wan't to do such a thing though than you do you.
You forget the reset after an elim OP.
Genji swift strikes into a bar. There is no hard counter.

Honestly, the biggest issue is the deflect. It NEEDS to be reduced to it's actual visual because right now, it's the broad side of a barn in size and is easily much larger than the visual.
A good widow who isn't seen can probably get him but most of the time the only people i know who can kill genji easy are winston and sym and literally he strong enough to kill the two if he keeps his distance right.
09/17/2017 07:28 PMPosted by CaptPlanet
Not only is he one of the hardest heroes to hit in the game, but you also have to be afraid of shooting him - that's just stupid.

I dislike the deflect mechanic in concept, but I'd be much less salty about it if it were on a hero like Reinhardt.


Yeah..

I can attack tracer when i want. But i cant attack genji because he can use deflect with 0.1 seconds of delay.

Also he have bigger hitbox on dash, deflect and ultimate.
I hate having him on my team, not good in gold, low dps only gets kills when he ults. Love seeing him on enemy team
I agree with everything but
09/17/2017 07:25 PMPosted by Atrophy
highest movement speed in the game

I'm pretty sure that Lucio (on speed boost) is faster

09/17/2017 07:30 PMPosted by Skrimiche
His only form of protection is cancellable and can be bypassed by the primary fire of four other heroes (half of those heroes are hot garbage against everything else, but it's still technically a counter)

Yes. I think they should fix his hitboxes and then buff his counters

09/17/2017 07:30 PMPosted by Skrimiche
-Extreme ability reliant (hacked = dead)

He still has his 3 passives.
Just fix deflect, dash and blade hitboxes and do something about the ult refund.
Then buff his counters
09/18/2017 08:06 AMPosted by Atrophy
09/18/2017 05:51 AMPosted by Skrimiche
...
That's still a weakness... Heroes like Reaper, Junk, etc. are very effective against tanks. Genji and Tracer thrive against squishies. If you run a tank-heavy comp against the two flankers then they won't get much done, just like how doing the opposite would apply for Reaper/Junk.

My point is that being bad at range = a weakness... Outrange him and he can't do much.

Mei and Symm are bad, Zarya and Winston aren't. You can still run the latter two (and since they're both tanks Genji can't 1v1 them safely).

A lot of heroes don't rely on their abilities much to be effective (e.g. McCree). Genji's base DPS is low, hence why he has such a strong kit as a compensation. If you hack him then all he has are has shurikens and a little (somewhat situational) mobility. A hacked McCree can still get things done, but a hacked Genji can't.

If you can't burst someone down then you won't be effective as Genji. Again, this is why he performs poorly against tanks. He needs to kill people quickly to get anything done. Soldier has sustain, so even if you're going against trip tank you can still kill things.

You can blame matchmaking for that, not Genji. If matches were actually fair then nothing would seem as OP as everyone claims.

Because Genji is a pubstomper and has a lower skill floor. If Tracer had a lower skill floor then you can bet that she'd be more used. Plus, people just like playing as a cyborg ninja.

Those heroes should be buffed then instead of nerfing the one mid-tier hero...

You're right with Reaper because he was designed to be a tank buster
Even though you're also right with junk he isn't actually in the dps category

and again that's not a weakness because genji's targets don't usually consist of tanks
He only needs to kill key supports or dps players

A) he has one of the best gap closers in the game B) what is he doing trying to kill anyone at long range.

That's true but he doesn't need to
Tanks aren't Genji focus

I want to make 2 points here

A) most heroes are ability reliant B) Sombra is in 1% of game
Now if the genji isn't distracted or caught of gaurd her hack will rarely ever land

So yea I quess that is indeed a weakness that doesn't show itself

ever

He doesn't need to god damn kill tanks
Triple tank has been dead for months dude get with the times

In the ideal world yea
but in this world the mm system is broke

So you're supporting my argument
Great

The problem is that it's much easier for a group of people to come together to nerf/buff one hero than it is to nerf/buff multiple heroes.

Blizzard isn't really known to being able to listen to more than a few suggestions at a time

Now if you wan't to do such a thing though than you do you.

Junk isn't DPS? In what world?

Genji's targets don't consist of tanks BECAUSE he's horrible against them. The only thing he can do against tanks is farm ult and try to distract, just like Tracer.

He has a gap closer because of his bad range... If you have no way to close the gap safely as a CQC hero then you're useless. "What is he doing trying to kill anyone at range?" Why does this matter? We're talking about weaknesses, not the reasoning behind why people do the things they do. Genji is bad at range, that is a fact.

Again, Genji doesn't focus tanks because he's not meant to fight them and can't do anything against them.

Most heroes? A good chunk of the roster can still do things at least a little without their abilities (76, McCree, Reaper, Junk, Widow, Hanzo, Symm). And just because a lot of heroes rely on their abilities doesn't mean it's not a counter.

If you're trying to hack targets while their full attention is on you then you're not playing Sombra right.

"Get with the times" lol, so because trip tank is dead = that weakness is nonexistent? You asked for cons, I delivered. Either accept them or don't post at all, because trying to deny FACTS shows how much bias you really have.

Again, MM is to blame, not heroes.

I'm not supporting your arguments, quit shoving words in my mouth. I'm saying Genji has plenty of weaknesses (which you constantly try to deny) and all he needs are counters that are able to exploit those weaknesses better.

Easy =/= right. It'd be easy to remove Pharah's splash so she can't spam for kills but that doesn't mean it's a smart idea.
High Mobility / High Damage. Being a Cyborg Ninja helps.
Genji is a bit op, but he is not a pick up and play character and does require a significant amount of skill.

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