What is it if it's not Forced Losses?

Competitive Discussion
I rose in rank from 1190 SR to 1895 in a week playing smart, communicating etc. I had a 64% win streak. Games were challenging with close calls but I was moving in the right direction. Then, starting yesterday morning, it was loss after loss. 10 out of 15 matches had me on teams with leavers. Then when four stacking with my friends in the evening we lost 5 back to back matches.

I should have known something was up aftery second game yesterday morning, I was on teams where we were pitted against teams with SR 70-110 higher than ours.

You would think with 3 weeks of winning 64% of the time and moving really well there wouldn't be such a drastic change.

And, FYI, I'm not calling folks on teams who lose losers, I'm calling out all those who rage quit mid match, even when things are going pretty good.

But what's the deal? I don't buy into conspiracy theories but it sure felt like I was being placed on crap teams yesterday.

On a side note...it's a struggle to climb when you gain 15-22 SR for winning and lose 24-32 SR for losing. I think it should be a bit more even...so you don't feel like you have to win two to make up for one loss.

Anyway, I dropped from 1895 to 1560 in one session yesterday. I wasn't tilted or pissed. I just was motivated to keep going, to get back up there, but it was an uphill battle. I made it to 1604 today before dropping back to 1584.

Why the drastic drops for many players, if it's not systematically in place? Seems like more than just a coincidence.
It probably means your MMR went higher than your skill because of that awesome win streak you had. That, or you weren't really used for the level of play tons of SR higher than what you'd played before
Match maker can certainly screw up sometimes.

Was stuck at 1700 SR for 30+ hours in season 4 with Mercy. Every time I got to 1900+, as regular as clockwork, forced loss streaks with blatantly worse team mates until back at 1700.

Ended up playing Torb for 3-4 hours and got to gold. Maybe give Torb a try out? When I play vs. silvers duo queuing with my bronze chum, I often get 2-4 golds each game.
09/24/2017 05:04 PMPosted by DolceFragola
It probably means your MMR went higher than your skill because of that awesome win streak you had. That, or you weren't really used for the level of play tons of SR higher than what you'd played before


How does that explain being placed on a streak of teams with leavers? Thsts what brought my Sr down. It's difficult to win 5 v 6
When you play good the game puts you in with worse teammates to try to force a loss. at the start you can tell when its happening by looking at the averages.
I was steady at 2700 for about a week with a consistent win percentage and stats, to then suddenly over the last few days not be able to win a game if the fate of the universe depended on it. It doesn't really make a lot of sense that for all this time you're fine at your rank and then suddenly go 3-10 over the last couple of days dropping hundreds of SR. Ability does not fluctuate that much to just plummet at the drop of a dime.
You climb until your enemies get better than you or you're underperforming your rank.
I started with poor placements and was playing very well in at least 75% of them, regardless I lost ~75% of my games. Next 10 games I win 8 or 9 of them with little to no effort on my part. Now i'm at the point where there's nothing I can do to carry my games. Ranked is nothing more than a glorified coin flip and I'm sick of it.
It's forced losses. Period. I had to see it to believe it, because if low-ranked players in any other game told me that matchmaking was cheating, I'd laugh, but as a pro-gamer in a dozen other games coming into Overwatch, it's blatant that the system forces losses if your MMR is lower than your SR over multiple games.

I was sitting at an 80% winrate, then the game decided 5 games in a row to give me intentional throwers. Not "bad players", not "people who made non-meta picks", people who were intentionally tanking Masters-rank accounts in order to play up from Bronze (which actually proves they're forcing loses, those players can get ridiculous win rates climbing because the system wants them to climb, it knows their real MMR is higher and doesn't lower it when they lose SR by throwing).

It's really obvious. So, I played my way back up to 1840s, working on getting into Gold then Plat and so on, which I inevitably would IF the system works correctly, simply due to vastly out-skilling both my teammates and opponents (again, due to years of competitive gaming experience) - and boom, yet another losing streak the second my winrate tipped over 60%, multiple raging, auto-locking players who spam TOXIC chat, insult the team, die alone off point, or intentionally kill themselves repeatedly.

Not "bad" players - straight sandbaggers that they system could easily identify are the root cause of most of the losses they are involved in - obvious, clear, simple, FORCED losses. The system does not want you to climb directly UNLESS it has already decided your MMR is above your SR. If it's not, it will do everything in its power to keep you from gaining rank, up to and including putting players on your team it knows have spent the last 50 matches throwing.
09/24/2017 05:34 PMPosted by Alias
You climb until your enemies get better than you or you're underperforming your rank.


Nah. My "true skill" is likely around Masters if I wanted to invest the hundreds (or thousands, Overwatch has insane RNG) of hours to actually put my account there - but three days of going from ~600 to ~1800 is enough for me to get a good insight into Matchmaking and declare that it's the WORST I HAVE SEEN IN ANY GAME, PERIOD.

I only started playing Competitive because one of my coworkers told me this game has weird matchmaking and boy were they right - no wonder people complain about Overwatch competitive, it has explicit forced losses any time it thinks your MMR is less than your SR.

People have already done placement and testing on accounts and demonstrated that the same player can wind up 1000 SR off - in other words, the game can't tell the different between a Platinum and Grandmaster player, that's how fuzzy the math is - if you think that it's that inaccurate and not forcing losses, no, it definitely is - again, I would never have believed this, I'm used to low-ranked players complaining they're low ranked in games I'm earning money playing - but this is genuinely forced losing.

Overwatch Competitive needs a waiver that you agree to, and a system that flags non-competitive players and season-bans them from matchmaking, not a system that FORCES those players onto your team because it decides you're doing too well versus it's prediction of what you should be doing. I've seen games that do something like that in tabletop, but not in PC gaming, and every single one of them died.
09/24/2017 05:59 PMPosted by celestia
It's forced losses. Period. I had to see it to believe it, because if low-ranked players in any other game told me that matchmaking was cheating, I'd laugh, but as a pro-gamer in a dozen other games coming into Overwatch, it's blatant that the system forces losses if your MMR is lower than your SR over multiple games.

I was sitting at an 80% winrate, then the game decided 5 games in a row to give me intentional throwers. Not "bad players", not "people who made non-meta picks", people who were intentionally tanking Masters-rank accounts in order to play up from Bronze (which actually proves they're forcing loses, those players can get ridiculous win rates climbing because the system wants them to climb, it knows their real MMR is higher and doesn't lower it when they lose SR by throwing).

It's really obvious. So, I played my way back up to 1840s, working on getting into Gold then Plat and so on, which I inevitably would IF the system works correctly, simply due to vastly out-skilling both my teammates and opponents (again, due to years of competitive gaming experience) - and boom, yet another losing streak the second my winrate tipped over 60%, multiple raging, auto-locking players who spam TOXIC chat, insult the team, die alone off point, or intentionally kill themselves repeatedly.

Not "bad" players - straight sandbaggers that they system could easily identify are the root cause of most of the losses they are involved in - obvious, clear, simple, FORCED losses. The system does not want you to climb directly UNLESS it has already decided your MMR is above your SR. If it's not, it will do everything in its power to keep you from gaining rank, up to and including putting players on your team it knows have spent the last 50 matches throwing.


How i climbed up this season was, every 2nd or third game id farm mmr to keep moving up.
09/24/2017 06:07 PMPosted by IceQueen
09/24/2017 05:59 PMPosted by celestia
It's forced losses. Period. I had to see it to believe it, because if low-ranked players in any other game told me that matchmaking was cheating, I'd laugh, but as a pro-gamer in a dozen other games coming into Overwatch, it's blatant that the system forces losses if your MMR is lower than your SR over multiple games.

I was sitting at an 80% winrate, then the game decided 5 games in a row to give me intentional throwers. Not "bad players", not "people who made non-meta picks", people who were intentionally tanking Masters-rank accounts in order to play up from Bronze (which actually proves they're forcing loses, those players can get ridiculous win rates climbing because the system wants them to climb, it knows their real MMR is higher and doesn't lower it when they lose SR by throwing).

It's really obvious. So, I played my way back up to 1840s, working on getting into Gold then Plat and so on, which I inevitably would IF the system works correctly, simply due to vastly out-skilling both my teammates and opponents (again, due to years of competitive gaming experience) - and boom, yet another losing streak the second my winrate tipped over 60%, multiple raging, auto-locking players who spam TOXIC chat, insult the team, die alone off point, or intentionally kill themselves repeatedly.

Not "bad" players - straight sandbaggers that they system could easily identify are the root cause of most of the losses they are involved in - obvious, clear, simple, FORCED losses. The system does not want you to climb directly UNLESS it has already decided your MMR is above your SR. If it's not, it will do everything in its power to keep you from gaining rank, up to and including putting players on your team it knows have spent the last 50 matches throwing.


How i climbed up this season was, every 2nd or third game id farm mmr to keep moving up.


And how do you farm MMR?
09/25/2017 09:08 AMPosted by MonkTenzin
09/24/2017 06:07 PMPosted by IceQueen
...

How i climbed up this season was, every 2nd or third game id farm mmr to keep moving up.


And how do you farm MMR?


MMR is basically your individual skill rating. how good YOU are. to farm that. do better. get golds. slay out. carry. win. even if you lose but you carried your team MMR sees that. if youre gaining SR but you have no medals, no nothing and virtually got carried then thats why they force losses on you.
09/24/2017 06:04 PMPosted by celestia
09/24/2017 05:34 PMPosted by Alias
You climb until your enemies get better than you or you're underperforming your rank.


Nah. My "true skill" is likely around Masters if I wanted to invest the hundreds (or thousands, Overwatch has insane RNG) of hours to actually put my account there - but three days of going from ~600 to ~1800 is enough for me to get a good insight into Matchmaking and declare that it's the WORST I HAVE SEEN IN ANY GAME, PERIOD.

I only started playing Competitive because one of my coworkers told me this game has weird matchmaking and boy were they right - no wonder people complain about Overwatch competitive, it has explicit forced losses any time it thinks your MMR is less than your SR.

People have already done placement and testing on accounts and demonstrated that the same player can wind up 1000 SR off - in other words, the game can't tell the different between a Platinum and Grandmaster player, that's how fuzzy the math is - if you think that it's that inaccurate and not forcing losses, no, it definitely is - again, I would never have believed this, I'm used to low-ranked players complaining they're low ranked in games I'm earning money playing - but this is genuinely forced losing.

Overwatch Competitive needs a waiver that you agree to, and a system that flags non-competitive players and season-bans them from matchmaking, not a system that FORCES those players onto your team because it decides you're doing too well versus it's prediction of what you should be doing. I've seen games that do something like that in tabletop, but not in PC gaming, and every single one of them died.

if you where a masters player you would have placed low diamond MINIMUM, you are silver so you are a silver player. i have never lost a single game in bronze or silver, not 1 and i have played atleast over 50 on multiple accounts. you aren't skilled enough to climb, simple.
09/24/2017 05:34 PMPosted by Alias
You climb until your enemies get better than you or you're underperforming your rank.


This.
Even if you flip a coin you'll get streaks. Add to that that human nature is to assume that internal forces are responsible for win streaks and external ones are responsible for losing streaks and there you have it.
Went from 24xx close to plat to 21xx started 2330. over weekend loss after loss least 4 games had healer round 1 then no healers round 2,few leavers,few hanzo and widow games, an just overall bad players 56% wr to 44% wr in just 3 days now lower then placements so last month was waisted in 3 days also had a friend also tank just as bad over weekend same games I was getting between 2 solo q players that where close to plat
03/02/2017 07:35 PMPosted by Scott Mercer
We're always trying to put you in fair matches that we think you have a 50% chance to win, and do it quickly so you're playing Overwatch instead of staring at a queue timer. We never intentionally seek to put you in an unfair one.

I've seen comments like "I just won three games in a row, so the matchmaker put me in a bad stomp to get back to a 50% win rate". It doesn't do anything like that at all. It just keeps on trying to find fair matches. If you do win more than you lose, your SR will slowly go up. As that happens it'll also put you up stronger opponents that match your new SR. That's not so you lose, it's to keep your matches fair.

There's one other thing to remember, though. The results of a match that the matchmaker thought was perfectly fair don't always result in a match that is hard fought every meter of the payload and you win by just holding them off from reaching the final checkpoint at 0:00 time remaining. Matches with teams of equal skill result in 3-0 stomps more than you think. Maybe an early fight snowballed out of control due to staggered spawns, maybe a player decided he was going to try to pickup a new hero that match, or perhaps your's cat decided to play with your keyboard right before you used that Graviton Surge and it wildly missed its mark. We're all human, and we don't perform at the perfectly same level all the time. It's one of the reasons competitive games are so much fun to play and watch.
Dunno what it is but it definitely is funny how after a win streak you WILL have a loss streak guranteed no matter how hard you try and win...I mean it can't be bad luck cause it is too consistent
Saying its "forced" losses is a strong statement tho. I would need evidence for that..but man it sure as !@#$ is very consistent!
09/24/2017 05:34 PMPosted by Alias
You climb until your enemies get better than you or you're underperforming your rank.


Funny. I was in Silver before I got to Diamond twice. The game saddles you with bad players when you are doing too well. Also it is not the enemy that is the problem. They are just taking advantage of your terrible teammates with no fundamentals.

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