Explanation on the Torb main ban from Blizzard

General Discussion
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It's really sad than we can not play what we want... Now, Blizzard going to force us to play what we are supposed to play... What a great idea...

That's not going to change anything about the toxicity... That's going to be worse...

Be careful Blizzard, it's not really clear...
11/12/2017 03:44 PMPosted by Jinxed
11/12/2017 03:39 PMPosted by Lalalabumba
I largely agree, but the current SR/Matchmaking system punishes 6-stacks

How so? Genuinely curious, not trying to confront.


From my understanding, they assume that because you're a stacked team that you have coordination and experience playing with each other. If the game doesn't find a stack of equal size and SR for your opposition, then the solo-q oppenents' SR will be skewed higher to make up for it.
11/12/2017 03:30 PMPosted by Sysy
@Moozedude A system like wow when you want to group for clean a dongeon ? It's not a bad idea but maybe a lot of work for Blizzard ?


It might be a lot of work, but a legitimate international sport takes a lot of work. Every year, long before the season starts, these leagues sit down with owners, refs, coaches, and players to go over rules and make sure they are clear and concise. The do things like change the shot clock, or move the kickoff, or change what kind of penalties are levied for offenses. Then they share all of that information with all of the players, staff, and even the general public.

Is it because it's an "eSport" that it doesn't do this? Because that pretty much legitimizes that old public opinion that "eSports aren't real sports," since they can't take themselves seriously enough to actually go this far.
11/12/2017 03:40 PMPosted by SilverHawk
Can we report DPS who don't do their job then?


Not doing there job or not performing. I have had games were i cant get a thing going. Now it look like you can be ban for that.
11/12/2017 03:47 PMPosted by righthere
Reposted from a closed thread:

And here is the crux of the problem - parts of community know Fuey. And know that the he wasn't working with his team explanation was disingenuous.

He streams regularly. He's never toxic on stream, nor has he developed a reputation for being toxic off stream. He is always in voice chat. He changes characters if the team needs something else. And he rarely needs to change because he is so good at Torb. He makes him work in the face of Torb counters. Heck, he gets asked to play Torb by his team when he trys to play something else.

This is why so many people are having issues with the official explanation.


Quoted for Truth

I'm no PR expert, but I personally think that they could cut the outrage in half instantly by just admitting this mistake, and then making the rules CRYSTAL CLEAR either in favor of, or against, report-enforced meta.

Maybe that's why there's such a delay? They're deciding if they want report enforced meta or not?
11/12/2017 03:45 PMPosted by MadHookUp
11/12/2017 03:37 PMPosted by BlueLightnin
...

If it's someone with a 60% win rate on Symm or Torb, and their other heroes are lower win rates... gimme the Symm or Torb.


I think this is the thing lost on the community of people that believe a 1 trick should switch characters. I am personally not a one-trick, and pretty much stopped playing competitive due to how toxic it is. But I wish there was an SR rating per class. If I had a 1 trick top 500 Torb on my team, and his 2nd best character is like... 1400 SR. I don't care what our team comp is, or what the other team comp is. I want him playing Torb.

I think the Torb feels the same way. Even if he is getting hard countered, they deep down know that switching to something else will likely lock in a loss. An argument can easily be made that these 1 trick players should learn to play the class the counters the classes that people use against their 1 trick, but that is another discussion.


Precisely.
11/12/2017 03:26 PMPosted by Moozedude
So if competitive mode is gonna be treated as a sport, treat it as a sport.

Let us choose our teammates beforehand, and don't penalize us for doing so.

Give us real, expandable, up-to-date stats, transparent and instant, so we can make informed recommendations and decisions.

Don't set a meta, but set a framework. A football offense must have a QB and a Center, for example, so mandate 1 Tank, 1 Support, and 4 Flex. Those Flex can also tank or support, giving you a LOT of meta variability, but the dedicated Tank and Support cannot leave those roles. Compensate them the way WoW LFG does, with a preferential queue. We could even queue for multiple roles, just like raidfinder. The tech exists.

Fix heroes that are so far out of meta that they have to be banned. For example, make Torb's armor generate faster and slot him Support, you could reduce his damage slightly to compensate.

Set real, objective incentives to play team-first, instead of making individual hero choice and performance so rewarding that it's more important than winning.

Most importantly, make AND DISSEMINATE the changes before punishing anyone for them.

EDIT: And don't let the players punish the players. Deautomate any punishment that extends outside the active game in question. Hire more "referees" in CS. Maybe even live-audit games.

And make concrete rules. Generalizations and vague guidelines create multitudinous massive loopholes. Is it so bad to say "You must touch both feet inbounds?" The forums have a very clear Code of Conduct, the game has a binding TOS and EULA, so we know the company is not opposed to clear rules or enforcing them. Why does your flagship sport have to be different?


gonna go ahead and nominate you for leader of the competitive developers. get in there and fix all this mess please. for us
11/12/2017 03:50 PMPosted by Vulkan
11/12/2017 03:40 PMPosted by SilverHawk
Can we report DPS who don't do their job then?


Not doing there job or not performing. I have had games were i cant get a thing going. Now it look like you can be ban for that.
Earlier today someone said their friend tried reporting a Soldier OT that wouldn’t swap when they were doing bad, and the friend was suspended for “false reports”
11/11/2017 06:10 AMPosted by TheReinhardt
He can’t help if people get angry at a Torb pick and they refuse to work with him.


This is completely true. The 5 other people should learn to work with him. This should be the case in every game we play. The others should learn to adapt to us.
11/12/2017 03:06 PMPosted by PhazonXeno
11/11/2017 08:09 PMPosted by Josh Engen
After investigating a number of the cases that have been surfaced over the past 24 hours, we can confirm that the system is working as intended.

None of these were simple cases of “one tricking” or off-meta hero selection. These were examples of behavior intended to disrupt Competitive Play. As such, the punishments will stand.

To be clear, specializing in certain heroes or playing off-meta heroes is not bad behavior on its own. In fact, we actively encourage people to be clever with their team comps and work with their teammates to counter the enemy comp. Teamwork is important and should be considered when making your hero selections, especially in Competitive Play.

We take these kinds of reports very seriously, along with your feedback. We’ll continue to fine-tune our systems, and we apologize for any confusion about the way that these policies have been communicated.


This is dumb and the worst kind of reply you could give. Where did you learn your PR skills?

It's not about working with your team. A lot of these "one trick" reports are your team screaming at you on the mic when you pick the hero that they are demanding you play to fit them. And your records don't hold audio logs (fact, if they did you'd have servers bigger than Amazon or any world government) so you can't analyze for that kind of abuse. So instead of seeing the real picture you see what people reporting falsely want you to see instead of the truth

Glad to know we can't trust you guys at all. Tempted to quit blizzard games entirely and do a massive chargeback on my bank just to spite you guys.
They should add a feature to “capture” the last 30 seconds (or whatever) of voice chat, to accompany a report. Hitting the capture button could save it similarly to a highlight, and a feature to “add sound files” to a report could be added, and it could link to the saved clips from the games you played, so you can pick one to go along with your report. It would save A LOT of server space because it would store it on each user’s end until they sent it in to go with the report.
11/12/2017 03:50 PMPosted by Kirby
11/12/2017 03:47 PMPosted by righthere
Reposted from a closed thread:

And here is the crux of the problem - parts of community know Fuey. And know that the he wasn't working with his team explanation was disingenuous.

He streams regularly. He's never toxic on stream, nor has he developed a reputation for being toxic off stream. He is always in voice chat. He changes characters if the team needs something else. And he rarely needs to change because he is so good at Torb. He makes him work in the face of Torb counters. Heck, he gets asked to play Torb by his team when he trys to play something else.

This is why so many people are having issues with the official explanation.


Quoted for Truth

I'm no PR expert, but I personally think that they could cut the outrage in half instantly by just admitting this mistake, and then making the rules CRYSTAL CLEAR either in favor of, or against, report-enforced meta.

Maybe that's why there's such a delay? They're deciding if they want report enforced meta or not?


My guess they do have different opinions on this even among themselves. Would explain the contradicting statements we get.
Riot Games system report > abyss > Blizzard system report
11/12/2017 03:48 PMPosted by Ravaniss
It's really sad than we can not play what we want... Now, Blizzard going to force us to play what we are supposed to play... What a great idea...

That's not going to change anything about the toxicity... That's going to be worse...

Be careful Blizzard, it's not really clear...


Soon they will ban us for not performing at are Sr lvl.
11/12/2017 03:26 PMPosted by Moozedude
So if competitive mode is gonna be treated as a sport, treat it as a sport.

Let us choose our teammates beforehand, and don't penalize us for doing so.

Give us real, expandable, up-to-date stats, transparent and instant, so we can make informed recommendations and decisions.

Don't set a meta, but set a framework. A football offense must have a QB and a Center, for example, so mandate 1 Tank, 1 Support, and 4 Flex. Those Flex can also tank or support, giving you a LOT of meta variability, but the dedicated Tank and Support cannot leave those roles. Compensate them the way WoW LFG does, with a preferential queue. We could even queue for multiple roles, just like raidfinder. The tech exists.

Fix heroes that are so far out of meta that they have to be banned. For example, make Torb's armor generate faster and slot him Support, you could reduce his damage slightly to compensate.

Set real, objective incentives to play team-first, instead of making individual hero choice and performance so rewarding that it's more important than winning.

Most importantly, make AND DISSEMINATE the changes before punishing anyone for them.

EDIT: And don't let the players punish the players. Deautomate any punishment that extends outside the active game in question. Hire more "referees" in CS. Maybe even live-audit games.

And make concrete rules. Generalizations and vague guidelines create multitudinous massive loopholes. Is it so bad to say "You must touch both feet inbounds?" The forums have a very clear Code of Conduct, the game has a binding TOS and EULA, so we know the company is not opposed to clear rules or enforcing them. Why does your flagship sport have to be different?


Please, upvote this ! It's a fxking big and good idea.

(Sorry, this post has been quoted a lot of times) ^^'
11/12/2017 03:52 PMPosted by TheReinhardt
11/12/2017 03:50 PMPosted by Vulkan
...

Not doing there job or not performing. I have had games were i cant get a thing going. Now it look like you can be ban for that.
Earlier today someone said their friend tried reporting a Soldier OT that wouldn’t swap when they were doing bad, and the friend was suspended for “false reports”


HAHAHAHA OH WOW
YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST, FOLKS
META IS LITERALLY GETTING ENFORCED, CERTAIN DPS PICKS GET YOU BANNED WHILE OTHERS MAKE YOU IMPERVIOUS TO REPORTS

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE
11/12/2017 03:24 PMPosted by TheSuedeUzi
If this game actually had a scoreboard that let you see you and your teams stats then maybe players wouldn’t blindly report off meta picks when they lose a game because oh look Torb has 30 elims and wasn’t the reason you lost.
Ehhhhhhh yeah.... I’m thinking of the potential toxicity that could just come from the poor chap at the bottom of the scoreboard... it would help in the case of one tricks but it could hurt others, other times.

Not saying I’m against it, but we have to consider the ramifications beyond this situation. Doing things without thinking about this might be just what got us in this situation.
11/12/2017 03:48 PMPosted by Ravaniss
It's really sad than we can not play what we want... Now, Blizzard going to force us to play what we are supposed to play... What a great idea...

That's not going to change anything about the toxicity... That's going to be worse...

Be careful Blizzard, it's not really clear...


I think it's incorrect to look at this like Blizzard wanted this to happen. The core problem here is the reporting system isn't properly addressing this situation.

One-tricks that properly adapt to bad situations are good. Arrogant one-tricks that aren't actually helping but refuse to switch are bad. The community should be able to help police this kind of thing, but right now, the reporting system is just gonna let the mob do what it wants.

Allowing reporting at the beginning of the game just sounds terrible now after hearing about all this. You give any one-trick a proper chance to prove themselves first. If they did terribly and still refused to adjust to help the team get the win then yeah, they earned the report for that game.
11/12/2017 04:00 PMPosted by momo
11/12/2017 03:24 PMPosted by TheSuedeUzi
If this game actually had a scoreboard that let you see you and your teams stats then maybe players wouldn’t blindly report off meta picks when they lose a game because oh look Torb has 30 elims and wasn’t the reason you lost.
Ehhhhhhh yeah.... I’m thinking of the potential toxicity that could just come from the poor chap at the bottom of the scoreboard... it would help in the case of one tricks but it could hurt others, other times.

Not saying I’m against it, but we have to consider the ramifications beyond this situation. Doing things without thinking about this might be just what got us in this situation.


Or flex players that started on heals then swap to dps.. "your K/D ratio is terrible man, you dont even have a medal on kills!" At low SR, the perception of poor performance will lead to toxicity towards the flex players.
The reporting system is still obviously flawed.

Big time.
11/12/2017 03:52 PMPosted by TheReinhardt
11/12/2017 03:50 PMPosted by Vulkan
...

Not doing there job or not performing. I have had games were i cant get a thing going. Now it look like you can be ban for that.
Earlier today someone said their friend tried reporting a Soldier OT that wouldn’t swap when they were doing bad, and the friend was suspended for “false reports”


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