Explanation on the Torb main ban from Blizzard

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11/11/2017 08:09 PMPosted by Josh Engen
After investigating a number of the cases that have been surfaced over the past 24 hours, we can confirm that the system is working as intended.

None of these were simple cases of “one tricking” or off-meta hero selection.


Ok but how!?

Fuey literally STREAMED IT HAPPENING. They were only playing Torb. YOUR own RULES IN THE GAME state you're wrong, your twitter and game director state your wrong. How, how are all cases working as intended? How do you manage to insult your company, your game, your players and set a precedent and fear from this?
Fuey hasn't streamed every game he's played, fuey wasn't banned based on at most 5 reports from one game, and then banned in less than 15 minutes, blizzard doesn't act this fast. Is the concept of him getting banned for something he did when he wasn't streaming and maybe a week or a couple weeks ago so foreign and inconceivable?
[quote]

Remember, it takes 50+ reports for a ban to happen. So that probably means this kid was rude / threw games / disrespectful / didn't change maybe 100+ times if he got reported 50+ times.


Except we know he does not do that because he's one of the friendliest streamers around. Plus the CA post does not mention a WORD about being rude or being disrespectful in his post. Why do you have to lie? Does dishonesty bring pleasure for you?


What on earth are you talking about? I'm not familiar with this streamer, but there have been tons of people in this thread who have said he's rude and the way he talks to people in voice and in game -- he deserved it? Don't get so worked up, by the way. It isn't good for your health.

Fuey hasn't streamed every game he's played, fuey wasn't banned based on at most 5 reports from one game, and then banned in less than 15 minutes, blizzard doesn't act this fast. Is the concept of him getting banned for something he did when he wasn't streaming and maybe a week or a couple weeks ago so foreign and inconceivable?


So why didnt the CA post mention any of that behaviour? If it would exist, they would've commented on it in the support feedback.

Is this the new Blizzard fanboy narrative now? "Oh he was not banned because people didnt like he never switched heroes in-game, he was actually banned for being toxic in games we did not see! The community manager did not mention any of this because he wanted to keep it in secret in a private message!"

Do you realize how stupid that sounds?
@MEITTI

Now I just think you're being obtuse on purpose because you just want to keep your pitchfork held high lol..
11/11/2017 11:29 PMPosted by Madix
What's ironic is that half the people complaining here are probably guilty of reporting people on their team for this same behavior. I mean, are you really going to tell me you don't ever get agitated when you have someone who only plays Torb (or bastion or widow, etc) that refuses to switch regardless of how ineffective their hero is?
I know i never did, because i'm partly one of them.
11/11/2017 11:29 PMPosted by Madix
What's ironic is that half the people complaining here are probably guilty of reporting people on their team for this same behavior. I mean, are you really going to tell me you don't ever get agitated when you have someone who only plays Torb (or bastion or widow, etc) that refuses to switch regardless of how ineffective their hero is?

It happens for every hero. We tell Genji mains to switch when they're getting countered by 3 tanks/monkey, we tell Widow to switch when she's being jumped on. It just so happens that Torb is one of those heroes that needs to switch more often than others because he's a specialized hero. Are you just supposed to ignore it when he can't even get his turret up?

Do I think simply not switching should be reportable? It depends on the situation but if I see someone constantly dying to the same things and having very little effect on the battle simply because they refuse to switch then yes, I consider it feeding.

-I'll just go ahead and say tanks for the downvotes ahead of time.
I’ve honestly never reported someone for it. I honestly believed them when they said you can’t report someone for their choice. Silly me right?

Now I just think you're being obtuse on purpose because you just want to keep your pitchfork held high lol..


Says the guy who tries to tell us he was banned for being mean when nowhere is this indicated, not even in Blizzards own response for the guy. He was banned because he refused to switch a hero in a match. CA post clarifies this was the issue.
11/11/2017 11:34 PMPosted by MEITTI

Fuey hasn't streamed every game he's played, fuey wasn't banned based on at most 5 reports from one game, and then banned in less than 15 minutes, blizzard doesn't act this fast. Is the concept of him getting banned for something he did when he wasn't streaming and maybe a week or a couple weeks ago so foreign and inconceivable?


So why didnt the CA post mention any of that behaviour? If it would exist, they would've commented on it in the support feedback.

Is this the new Blizzard fanboy narrative now? "Oh he was not banned because people didnt like he never switched heroes in-game, he was actually banned for being toxic in games we did not see! The community manager did not mention any of this because he wanted to keep it in secret in a private message!"

Do you realize how stupid that sounds?
So first you acknowledge that someone higher up than a customer service rep, told you exactly that he wasn't banned for one tricking, and now you're ignoring the UPDATED post from A SPOKESMAN TO THE DEVELOPERS who said they reviewed it to fit your dumb <Removed by moderation> argument?

Moderation Edit: This post has been edited by a moderator due to language. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/code-of-conduct/
11/11/2017 08:09 PMPosted by Josh Engen
After investigating a number of the cases that have been surfaced over the past 24 hours, we can confirm that the system is working as intended.

None of these were simple cases of “one tricking” or off-meta hero selection.


Ok but how!?

Fuey literally STREAMED IT HAPPENING. They were only playing Torb. YOUR own RULES IN THE GAME state you're wrong, your twitter and game director state your wrong. How, how are all cases working as intended? How do you manage to insult your company, your game, your players and set a precedent and fear from this?


I think people don't understand that anyone can go and watch Fuey500 play. The can see hours of what he does. Yet, they assume how he acted just by him playing Torb.

THIS is what I want to avoid. I don't think this one ban is wrong. I'm not speaking out against the Fuey ban.

What I don't want is a witch hunt. I want people to be able to play what they want without fear of being banned for it. And the fact that this is a contradiction of their own policies is concerning. If that becomes the standard, people will leave this game like a flood.

A game needs solid, and concise rules. This appears to be a case where an automated system allowed a bunch of people who dislike Torbs in their game, to get a top 500 player banned, and that they are trying to obfuscate and defend the system. And whether or not this is true - they need to clarify the particulars of this ruling.
11/11/2017 11:34 PMPosted by MEITTI
...

So why didnt the CA post mention any of that behaviour? If it would exist, they would've commented on it in the support feedback.

Is this the new Blizzard fanboy narrative now? "Oh he was not banned because people didnt like he never switched heroes in-game, he was actually banned for being toxic in games we did not see! The community manager did not mention any of this because he wanted to keep it in secret in a private message!"

Do you realize how stupid that sounds?
So first you acknowledge that someone higher up than a customer service rep, told you exactly that he wasn't banned for one tricking, and now you're ignoring the UPDATED post from A SPOKESMAN TO THE DEVELOPERS who said they reviewed it to fit your dumb !@# argument?


And nowhere in that blue post did they say he was banned for being toxic either. "Him being mean"-argument of yours is straight pulled out of your dishonest !@#.
"You have to play what your teammates want you to play."

No. As long as a player is legitimately attempting to win, they should never be punished. Blizzard is digusting.
Highly Rated
11/11/2017 08:09 PMPosted by Josh Engen
After investigating a number of the cases that have been surfaced over the past 24 hours, we can confirm that the system is working as intended.

None of these were simple cases of “one tricking” or off-meta hero selection. These were examples of behavior intended to disrupt Competitive Play. As such, the punishments will stand.

To be clear, specializing in certain heroes or playing off-meta heroes is not bad behavior on its own. In fact, we actively encourage people to be clever with their team comps and work with their teammates to counter the enemy comp. Teamwork is important and should be considered when making your hero selections, especially in Competitive Play.

We take these kinds of reports very seriously, along with your feedback. We’ll continue to fine-tune our systems, and we apologize for any confusion about the way that these policies have been communicated.


Hi all thank you guys for being super supportive!

I would also really like to know what I had done besides playing 95% of my games as torbjorn(one tricking can be argued left and right but playoverwatch, the support team and the in-game report system have said this is not a bannable offense!)

I stream a solid 90% of my games and play maybe 10% offstream(I don't even remember playing any this season off-stream) each seasonish. If I did anything wrong off or on stream I would also really like to know what was done so I could improve upon it!

We should give them some time its the holiday weekend and a ton of other users have also reported getting suspensions. Everyone want's answers but sometimes its hard to get these answers out especially if everything the blizzard support says will be official so lets give them some time!

Thanks!
11/11/2017 08:09 PMPosted by Josh Engen
After investigating a number of the cases that have been surfaced over the past 24 hours, we can confirm that the system is working as intended.

None of these were simple cases of “one tricking” or off-meta hero selection. These were examples of behavior intended to disrupt Competitive Play. As such, the punishments will stand.

To be clear, specializing in certain heroes or playing off-meta heroes is not bad behavior on its own. In fact, we actively encourage people to be clever with their team comps and work with their teammates to counter the enemy comp. Teamwork is important and should be considered when making your hero selections, especially in Competitive Play.

We take these kinds of reports very seriously, along with your feedback. We’ll continue to fine-tune our systems, and we apologize for any confusion about the way that these policies have been communicated.


Okay, but why does the game master said especially this reason for banning him? It doesn't make sense at all. Or it was the game master fault not to tell him the real reason.
<span class="truncated">...</span> So first you acknowledge that someone higher up than a customer service rep, told you exactly that he wasn't banned for one tricking, and now you're ignoring the UPDATED post from A SPOKESMAN TO THE DEVELOPERS who said they reviewed it to fit your dumb !@# argument?


And nowhere in that blue post did they say he was banned for being toxic either. "Him being mean"-argument of yours is straight pulled out of your dishonest !@#.
I never said he was being mean honey. They won't tell you what he was banned exactly for unless he makes a post on these forums himself. It doesn't involve any of us and they won't answer us since we aren't involved. Every other person who was "wrongfully" banned and called it out on here was replied with what they were banned for because they were the one banned and made a fuss not some third party %%%*%@!% riders. Oh btw here http://www.wowhead.com/achievement=2954/disarmed-25-player#comments you can read those comments of different GMs saying/doing contradicting things about a specific achievement in WoW. Customer service reps =/= community managers and the community manager just told you he wasn't banned for one tricking but please get Fuey to post and cause a fuss so I can finally say I told you so.
I have cycled between angry and confused on this topic. It seems there is tension between the spoken and unspoken rules at play, and it is creating a great deal of frustration and tension in the community.

Quote from Customer Service (Arcaxenosi):


If that means that you are picking up a particular character, completely ignoring the rest of the team composition, and the requests from people, that they cannot accommodate you to your play-style, then the reports are justified I'm afraid

[…]

Remember that this is a cooperative game, which sometimes means that you might have to do some concessions for the team, in order to have a better chance of winning.


Here we have a direct acknowledgement that regardless of the underlying reasons, refusing to switch in order to improve team composition is a reportable, actionable, offense. I have no other way to read this at this point in time. I can't even conceive of any other way to interpret it.

If there is another way to interpret it, please let me know. Please. I really want another way to interpret that statement other than "yes, you can be banned for refusing to switch and/or refusing to use voice chat." (The voice chat part is in the part I didn't quote in the piece about communicating).

Please give me another way to interpret this.

Then we get to this response.

11/11/2017 10:35 AMPosted by Josh Engen

We take both sides of the issue very seriously. We believe that players should be able to choose their favorite heroes, but playing as a team (which includes building an effective team composition) is a core part of the Overwatch experience. It’s a delicate balance, and we’re still working on getting it right (and probably always will be).


Ignoring for a moment that if we want to talk about reporting problems I would argue that there are much bigger fish to fry than one tricks (can we start with, oh, this thread on KYS? https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20758966328 That is kind of low hanging fruit… or the sorts of things mentioned here: https://kotaku.com/overwatchs-confusing-reporting-system-is-making-trollin-1796369505 ), and ignoring for the moment that this seems to directly contradict previous statements on the matter…

This directly confirms that it is acceptable to report someone for playing off-meta and refusing to switch, and it treats the "sides" as equivalent. This statement:

11/11/2017 10:35 AMPosted by Josh Engen

(which includes building an effective team composition)


Says, directly, "if you don't personally switch to compensate the perceived needs of the team, you can be legitimately reported."

Please, Blizzard, I am asking you. Give me another way to interpret this.

Rather than focus on, oh, the eight million DPS-only types who refuse to switch even when the team desperately needs a tank or a healer, especially the ones who one trick but do so with popular characters (*side eye genji*)… the target is a one-trick of one of the classic "off-meta" heros.

I mean, can I report all of the people on these forums who say "I will never play support because I refuse to be carried"? Can I report every member of my teams when we have 5 DPS (IIRC last time it was Junkrat, Hanzo, Genji, Tracer, McCree) + me and no one will switch?

11/11/2017 10:35 AMPosted by Josh Engen

If you’ve been playing Blizzard games for a while, you’ve probably heard us use the phrase “Play nice; play fair.” It’s like a mantra around the Blizzard campus, and it’s a big part of the way that we approach situations like this.


"Nice" is a bit of a loaded word you might want to reexamine. How about "Play kind, play fair"?

Then, finally, we get this:

11/11/2017 08:09 PMPosted by Josh Engen
Teamwork is important and should be considered when making your hero selections, especially in Competitive Play.

We take these kinds of reports very seriously, along with your feedback. We’ll continue to fine-tune our systems, and we apologize for any confusion about the way that these policies have been communicated.


In short:

1. Yes, you can and should be reported for failing to play according to what your team believes is a good character choice.
2. Yes, this is intended.
3. Because of what the community views as effective at any given moment, this is identical to meta.
4. It is your fault that you interpreted:


playing a hero that is not considered optimal by the community or staying silent in group chat


To mean anything other than that it is your responsibility to clear your choices with your team (unless you are refusing to switch to a healer or a tank while playing a meta DPS).

Please give me another way to interpret this. At a minimum, this is a clear signal to the trolls and bullies out there that they can "encourage" people to play the heroes they deem acceptable under threat of report.

Please?

(Edited for clarity)
11/11/2017 05:54 AMPosted by ǶAENOX
Mercy one tricks going from bronze to GM is fine, but playing a hero and achieving 58.5% winrate with it while mantaining team communication is bannable

Blizzard is a joke.

If your team is succeeding and you are communicating, there'd be no reason to report them.

Sadly, certain off meta Heroes are easy to counter or will cause the rest of the team to center around them/make up for the time the Hero spends getting countered (can't do anything while being hard countered). Heroes like Torb, Bastion, Mei, and to some extent Doomfist are very easy to counter. Their soft counters are essentially their hard counters and their hard counters can ACCIDENTALLY counter just by existing in the same area so that's always fun~

So even if you are an attack Torb/Mei with gold elims... That's because you're being ignored. The enemy team is killing everyone 5v6, then they eliminate the flea. Or your team is trying to rally around you but they get picked off while they're being your make-shift meat shields. It just creates a bad time and an easy loss. Tenacity/extreme perseverance is fine and even encouraged for roles like healers/tankers. Play through the pain (unless you're not being effective then FFS switch)! But if you're taking up a role as a DPSer-of-sorts you need to know when to switch, even if it's 2-3 times per game. Playing Torb/Mei/Bastion through a Pharah/Junkrat combo would be the opposite of "knowing when to switch"... Which I have seen at my rank. Clearly rank matters not - some people just didn't get the memo.

So until the Defense Heroes are made equally viable to their Offense Hero counterparts... We're going to have to deal with this BS for now. Chop chop, Blizzard.
11/11/2017 11:42 PMPosted by Fuey500
11/11/2017 08:09 PMPosted by Josh Engen
After investigating a number of the cases that have been surfaced over the past 24 hours, we can confirm that the system is working as intended.

None of these were simple cases of “one tricking” or off-meta hero selection. These were examples of behavior intended to disrupt Competitive Play. As such, the punishments will stand.

To be clear, specializing in certain heroes or playing off-meta heroes is not bad behavior on its own. In fact, we actively encourage people to be clever with their team comps and work with their teammates to counter the enemy comp. Teamwork is important and should be considered when making your hero selections, especially in Competitive Play.

We take these kinds of reports very seriously, along with your feedback. We’ll continue to fine-tune our systems, and we apologize for any confusion about the way that these policies have been communicated.


Hi all thank you guys for being super supportive!

I would also really like to know what I had done besides playing 95% of my games as torbjorn(one tricking can be argued left and right but playoverwatch, the support team and the in-game report system have said this is not a bannable offense!)

I stream a solid 90% of my games and play maybe 10% offstream(I don't even remember playing any this season off-stream) each seasonish. If I did anything wrong off or on stream I would also really like to know what was done so I could improve upon it!

We should give them some time its the holiday weekend and a ton of other users have also reported getting suspensions. Everyone want's answers but sometimes its hard to get these answers out especially if everything the blizzard support says will be official so lets give them some time!

Thanks!
The man... The legend... Fuey himself makes an appearance!!

And he is just as nice as everyone says
11/11/2017 11:42 PMPosted by Fuey500
11/11/2017 08:09 PMPosted by Josh Engen
After investigating a number of the cases that have been surfaced over the past 24 hours, we can confirm that the system is working as intended.

None of these were simple cases of “one tricking” or off-meta hero selection. These were examples of behavior intended to disrupt Competitive Play. As such, the punishments will stand.

To be clear, specializing in certain heroes or playing off-meta heroes is not bad behavior on its own. In fact, we actively encourage people to be clever with their team comps and work with their teammates to counter the enemy comp. Teamwork is important and should be considered when making your hero selections, especially in Competitive Play.

We take these kinds of reports very seriously, along with your feedback. We’ll continue to fine-tune our systems, and we apologize for any confusion about the way that these policies have been communicated.


Hi all thank you guys for being super supportive!

I would also really like to know what I had done besides playing 95% of my games as torbjorn(one tricking can be argued left and right but playoverwatch, the support team and the in-game report system have said this is not a bannable offense!)

I stream a solid 90% of my games and play maybe 10% offstream(I don't even remember playing any this season off-stream) each seasonish. If I did anything wrong off or on stream I would also really like to know what was done so I could improve upon it!

We should give them some time its the holiday weekend and a ton of other users have also reported getting suspensions. Everyone want's answers but sometimes its hard to get these answers out especially if everything the blizzard support says will be official so lets give them some time!

Thanks!


Woohoo! Woohoo! Fuey, finally. Ladies and gentlemen, the best Torbjorn in the world.
11/11/2017 11:42 PMPosted by Fuey500
11/11/2017 08:09 PMPosted by Josh Engen
After investigating a number of the cases that have been surfaced over the past 24 hours, we can confirm that the system is working as intended.

None of these were simple cases of “one tricking” or off-meta hero selection. These were examples of behavior intended to disrupt Competitive Play. As such, the punishments will stand.

To be clear, specializing in certain heroes or playing off-meta heroes is not bad behavior on its own. In fact, we actively encourage people to be clever with their team comps and work with their teammates to counter the enemy comp. Teamwork is important and should be considered when making your hero selections, especially in Competitive Play.

We take these kinds of reports very seriously, along with your feedback. We’ll continue to fine-tune our systems, and we apologize for any confusion about the way that these policies have been communicated.


Hi all thank you guys for being super supportive!

I would also really like to know what I had done besides playing 95% of my games as torbjorn(one tricking can be argued left and right but playoverwatch, the support team and the in-game report system have said this is not a bannable offense!)

I stream a solid 90% of my games and play maybe 10% offstream(I don't even remember playing any this season off-stream) each seasonish. If I did anything wrong off or on stream I would also really like to know what was done so I could improve upon it!

We should give them some time its the holiday weekend and a ton of other users have also reported getting suspensions. Everyone want's answers but sometimes its hard to get these answers out especially if everything the blizzard support says will be official so lets give them some time!

Thanks!
Someone from the team, please put this to rest once and for all now that he finally made a post himself. Put him in his place like every other "I've been banned wrongfully" post that turns out to be complete BS.
11/11/2017 05:53 AMPosted by TheReinhardt
So basically, don’t one trick off meta. Just don’t play off meta at all.

It's not about off-meta. It's about refusing to cooperate with the team. If your refuse to cooperate, please stay out of competitive mode.

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