Noone wants to play tanks anymore

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10/06/2017 04:28 PMPosted by Zorek104
10/06/2017 03:38 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
D.Va was the second most played character in comp this past week.


Maybe becsuse d.va now is more a dps than tank? Xd


Yeah, whenever I play D.Va I always fly in and disturb other instead stick with my team, she is just a massive dps =)
I keep saying it and seeing a few posts about it, but people will stop instalocking DPS and start instalocking tank once they come out with a cool anime tank (hanzo/genji-esque), a badass tank, or a hot waifu tank. Right now the options, besides dva, fit none of those attractive archetypes
10/06/2017 04:13 PMPosted by Nazrin
There arent that many characters in this game

they could just do a well informed heavy information filled post that explains what they are doing, how they are doing it and why they are doing it to prevent people from having any cracks to climb up on and tear their decisions down.

but they dont. we really dont know what they are thinking and at times things they say dont end up being the things they do or happens


Youre not entitled to an explaination of their motives. The fact they explain anything to us is already leaps and bounds ahead of most publishers.

Second, most of the time when they talk balance, its 'talking'. Theyve on numerous occassions said they would try stuff out internally. This doesnt mean we are going to see it. There may be issues that get that idea scrapped, or conflicts that make implementing it not worth while. They dont have to check in with us and say "Well we tried it, and heres the results!" Because we all know the honest response would be "Well you didnt implement it right!" or "We dont care what you found! Put it on the PTR and let us decide!" As if this game is some kind of open source game where we can vote on what goes into it.

Lastly, long open formed responses tend to get TLDRd by a lot of people here, and then end up with them <removed language> about why theyre not addressing a specific thing in a way the average poster sees fit. Half the time they give long responses, theres a flurry of thank yous, then incessant nit picking and ultimately brushing aside any meaningfuly information with "The devs suck cause of this one minor flaw here. Theyve nothing worthwhile to say."

The devs are met with so much toxicity, why should they invest time really talking with us? They tried that for a year, and wheres there thanks? A forum full of rudeness, baseless criticism and complaints, non stop entitlement and whining about "The Devs never listen to us!!!"

Consider the OP for a minute here. What does his post say? He played some games, he personally didnt get any other tank picks out of hte few games he played. He then states with certainty that the reasons are as he sees them.

As if his anecdotal experience is proof enough that the devs are wrong. The devs point out that contrary to his point, A TANK was the second most picked character. Keep in mind they have ALL THE STATS. ALL THE FIGURES. EVERYTHING ON THE GAME. Because they own and run it. But people are mad and discredit this answer. Just by gauging peoples lemming responses, the dissatisfaction comes because he pointed out DVa, the FOTM when it comes to controversies.

Theyre not saints, of course. But theyre people. And after a while, all this forum abuse will even grind down the patience of the most stalwart person.

Forum Mod Edit: This post has been edited by a moderator due to language. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/code-of-conduct/

I agree that with you that we need to be civilized in regards to criticizing the game but you seem to to be getting mad at people who are criticizing the game in general regardless of manner. The OP 's post is very well thought out and contains no toxic behavior what so ever so I think you are the one who needs to be more civil.
10/06/2017 05:25 PMPosted by peregrine
I keep saying it and seeing a few posts about it, but people will stop instalocking DPS and start instalocking tank once they come out with a cool anime tank (hanzo/genji-esque), a badass tank, or a hot waifu tank. Right now the options, besides dva, fit none of those attractive archetypes
Quite frankly, those exact people are people I don't want in my competitive games.
10/06/2017 03:38 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
D.Va was the second most played character in comp this past week.


It's almost like dva is not actually tank anymore...

But a fat dps.

Who just got a major rework and people are still getting used to it.


She's only a tank in name and category, kinda like roadhog. Which means players don't actually want to play tanks. Thanks for proving the point of this thread.


That conclusion is a pretty big logical leap to make.

All of the reasons you listed are just assumptions based in your perspective on the D.va changes. The post doesn't 'prove' anything except that D.va was the second most played hero last week.
10/06/2017 04:56 PMPosted by Mastodon
10/06/2017 03:38 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
D.Va was the second most played character in comp this past week.


Dva is not being used as a tank....


Then you aren't using D.Va correctly.

I played a game in masters where I went 50-1, while standing in front of 40% of the damage my team would take, eating ults, etc. If you are just using D.Va to run at people and shoot them, of course you are failing at it lol.
10/06/2017 03:38 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
D.Va was the second most played character in comp this past week.


Jeff respect for you, you made a fun game, but the balancing has to be adjusted because this is becoming worse and worse.

-D.va picked, where? Pro teams are playing on previous patch, I haven't loss a single game where there was a d.va as an opponent. I have a decent experience with d.va considering I am GrandMaster since s2 also because I've played much her. Now she is terrible at protecting, terrible at distracting.

-Roadhog is still inconsistent and needs minor tweaks, there is a 4000+ post and still not a response. He still feeds a lot of ults. He is being played a bit because of the D.va HUGE nerf.

-Genji/tracer still dominating the games. Many people thinking you want them to be amazing everytime. I still remember a video where you said "genji and tracer are so cool to watch on pro level". Give us a chance to counter them properly.
10/06/2017 03:38 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
D.Va was the second most played character in comp this past week.


well, D. Va is a DPS now, so.
10/06/2017 04:41 PMPosted by Hobotripin
10/06/2017 03:47 PMPosted by Jessicka
...
I get that, that it's also skewed towards higher level play, where D.Va is seeing less use.
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aiVtP33IE54/Wddwg-eb6RI/AAAAAAAABL0/o0ZdrQ2N7scJEu59ncbhjsYWT2ObU6TiACEwYBhgL/s640/topten.png 4 out of the top 10 mains in GM are tanks, with D.Va being #5 and thats from your overbuff statistics so stop talking out of your butt.


there are 15 dva top500 players on EU servers.
10/06/2017 03:44 PMPosted by Jessicka
10/06/2017 03:38 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
D.Va was the second most played character in comp this past week.

Not according to:
https://www.overbuff.com/heroes

Rein has overtaken her, her use at high levels in particular has dropped significantly.

I get you have more accurate data, but I feel like lower levels are still just messing around a lot with the 'shiny new.' My personal experience is, well, I had a 55% win rate with her last season, now I couldn't buy a win even though I lost enough SR to put me back at a level I used to comfortably carry with her.
10/06/2017 03:43 PMPosted by keeeyt
...

yea i played dva today..

as solo tank tho which isnt quite fun

Also this is happening a lot. The thread's about the state of tanks in general.


So a 3rd party site provides more reliable information than the Game Director himself? Give it a rest mate.
10/06/2017 03:38 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
D.Va was the second most played character in comp this past week.
The fact that a tank and support occupy the first and second most-played hero slots is not at all surprising considering that we have 6 tanks, 5 supports (only four of which can heal), and 14 DPS. So yes, if we assume that team compositions should have 2 DPS, 2 tanks, and 2 healers, then the average healer should have 3.5 times the pickrate of the average DPS, and the average tank should have 2.33 times the pickrate of the average DPS.

Now I ask you; Is that the case?
10/06/2017 05:55 PMPosted by Titanium
10/06/2017 03:38 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
D.Va was the second most played character in comp this past week.
The fact that a tank and support occupy the first and second most-played hero slots is not at all surprising considering that we have 6 tanks, 5 supports (only four of which can heal), and 14 DPS. So yes, if we assume that team compositions should have 2 DPS, 2 tanks, and 2 healers, then the average healer should have 3.5 times the pickrate of the average DPS, and the average tank should have 2.33 times the pickrate of the average DPS.

Now I ask you; Is that the case?


aww, nice math.. i havent even thought about that
10/06/2017 05:22 PMPosted by Brycerras
10/06/2017 04:52 PMPosted by Ares
Statistics and again statistics... They arent everything.

That is your core problem, everything you do is around numbers, Overwatch isnt math.

They are definately very important, but it feels like its everything for you.


The OP makes a claim as fact that can be refuted with Statistics. Here statistics used are just fine.

For recap: Claim was there was no tanks in high level comp. Op then proceeded to give his opinion, using hte claim as a fact and as the crux of his opinion.

Dev refutes claim with stats (facts in this case).

<span class="truncated">...</span>

Dva is not being used as a tank....


Opinion.

10/06/2017 04:56 PMPosted by ObjectOrient
The majority of people who pick DVA don't player her like a tank.


Opinion. Again.

10/06/2017 04:59 PMPosted by Blanket
great.. jeff using the stats for bronze players to apply to everyone else, what else is new.


Opinion based in groundless assumptions. Devs have all the stats and info on teh game. Players only have access to limited stats from select websites.

<span class="truncated">...</span>

Thats great but she's not a tank anymore.


Yet Another Opinion.

Notice a trend here yet?

A lot of Posts which are Opinions held up as facts. Anyone saying DVa isnt a tank is down to a purely subjective personal opinion based on personal criteria of WHAT makes a tank. And if you dont believe me, consider this:

DVa is a tank. I think shes a tank because of how I play her and what she has in her kit. Shes a proactive tank, with limited ability to negate damage for team mates, and aggressively engage targets in solo engagements to either distract or eliminate targets for your team.

Everythign I said there is more or less a subjective opinion I have. You dont ahve to agree. But it has atleast as much merit as someone's opinion that DVa isnt a tank. Even if its an unpopular one.

The point however is that I dont hold that opinion as fact. It is a flexible thought that can be changed if people persuade me to their opinion. Thats contrary to the quotes above, where people are dismissing the Devs response to the OPs claim based on their Opinions that htey hold as facts.


Oh shut up. Everything everyone says is an opinion unless they say otherwise. People that use this as an excuse to try and gain upper ground are pathetic. We don't have to add "but this is my opinion" at the end of everything we say.

Forum Mod Edit: This post has been edited by a moderator due to language. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/code-of-conduct/
Lol, these blanket statement posts are hilarious... All I've been playing is tank lately... I don't mind it one bit.
10/06/2017 03:49 PMPosted by Nere
10/06/2017 03:38 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
D.Va was the second most played character in comp this past week.


It's almost like dva is not actually tank anymore...

But a fat dps.

Who just got a major rework and people are still getting used to it.


She's only a tank in name and category, kinda like roadhog. Which means players don't actually want to play tanks. Thanks for proving the point of this thread.


Yeah, I laughed when I read that. Not sure what he's trying to point out by saying dva is second most played. Since dva is a DPS.
It's almost like the tank/heals/dps trifecta has been a problem for Blizzard before, and they were completely unable to learn from their mistake the first time. Crazy
I highly disagree, I am really enjoying playing the new D.VA she feels great, sometimes you get unlucky games but this sort of things can always happen on this sort of games.
Dva 2nd most played character...

I think you're using stats of pick rates entirely incorrectly here. You're using a stat of a pick that people feel forced into as what they want to play. They're 2 entirely different things. People flexing to help the team picking the best of what they don't want to play isn't the same as wanting to play something. Try to remember that your stats usually don't tell the whole picture. I play Dva and Mercy because a tank or Mercy is needed, not because I want to.
10/06/2017 03:38 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
D.Va was the second most played character in comp this past week.


You shifted the focus away from D.va tanking for her team to her getting picks. Nobody wants to play tanks whose focus is protecting their team. She's basically a bruiser now, just like Hog. But you know exactly what is meant when people say this, so it feels really disingenuous for this to be the reply.
10/06/2017 03:38 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
D.Va was the second most played character in comp this past week.


Thank you for posting:)

But what about the other tanks

And what about the performance of players who were playing Dva.

I love dva and will never stop being her, but that doesn't mean she is still a tank. A lot of people will be not because she is a tank, but because she is a great character.

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