New D.va doesn't feel like a tank. [Feedback]

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??????
D.va does more damage than ever and ults more than ever.
She ls a Dps tank now
Justo needs more skill
Look statistics?
Dva feels like another version of Winston, a diving tank. I like the rework a lot, I was never a big fan of holding down the right click for defensive matrix. I think she's in a pretty good state right now.
10/04/2017 12:24 AMPosted by Kmach
Dva feels like another version of Winston, a diving tank. I like the rework a lot, I was never a big fan of holding down the right click for defensive matrix. I think she's in a pretty good state right now.

2 weeks ago I wouldnt have agreed to this. I got used to the changes and Im having a blast playing her. As long as you have a consistent healer on you she works wonders.

Edit: Well, no surprise here. Downvoted for stating my opinion. God forbid I get used to the changes, have fun with them and help my team.
Surely this just proves the point - you need a healer attached to you.

Not a single one of the other tanks requires a healer attached to be effective.
10/04/2017 01:15 AMPosted by Kaceus
Surely this just proves the point - you need a healer attached to you.

Not a single one of the other tanks requires a healer attached to be effective.


What are you talking about, just about every tank barring Winston and Hog need a healer to baby sit them. Orisa just drops if a flanker is around her, Reinhardt just gets taken down by burst damage, and Zarya drops really quickly once her barrier is down. D.Va is no different, you peek, dive and return to get healed up.
Her missiles need tracking, since they don't compliment her primary fire. It would allow them to be more consistent. Though, they shouldn't need to be able to turn more than 20 degrees, or so. They don't need to go around corners, or whatever, they just need enough to not disrupt D.Va's main damage option. Is this unreasonable?

I can agree that D.Va could have her critical hit box removed, if the health is adjusted properly. However, if not, then maybe it should be moved to the gray mass on top of the mech. That is where she ejects from, so shooting it more should make her eject faster. And, it's at the top... Where heads usually are on other characters. We all understand why having a center critical hit box is a bad idea by now. Move it, or delete it. Adjust the health to compensate, but not to the point where she dies just as fast as she does now. The point of this is to fix how fast the mech goes down.

And, the Defense Matrix... It needs to have an uptime based on enemy gunfire deflects. If it doesn't deflect, it needs to have 2 seconds of uptime. Deflecting slows down the drain, however, there needs to be a variable keeping track of uptime and time remaining, so that it can't go over 4 seconds.

Think about it. You can't complain if you're on the enemy team. DM lasting too long means you need to stop shooting at her. DM not lasting long enough means you need to only use it when necessary. There's nothing to complain about, and the only way both sides are going to be happy.

As many times as I've been saying all of this, I do hope it's being read by the right people. D.Va isn't an ideal character for any situation anymore, this needs to be fixed.
10/03/2017 11:12 PMPosted by WhiteLothus
??????
D.va does more damage than ever and ults more than ever.
She ls a Dps tank now
Justo needs more skill
Look statistics?


She isn't a DPS because her damage is unreliable. She can't parry other DPS characters.

She isn't a tank because her survivability is low.

That's the issue. She has no well defined role now.
10/04/2017 01:59 AMPosted by JordanU

What are you talking about, just about every tank barring Winston and Hog need a healer to baby sit them. Orisa just drops if a flanker is around her, Reinhardt just gets taken down by burst damage, and Zarya drops really quickly once her barrier is down. D.Va is no different, you peek, dive and return to get healed up.


I think what they meant was in terms of sustainability as a tank, Dva is REALLY lacking it now to the point she has to be very close to her healers or heavily depend on them compared with other tanks.

Rein has barrier, Orisa has barrier and fortify, Zarya has bubbles and shields that regenerate her health, Hog has self heal 300hp and 50% mitigation of damage and Winston has bubble which protects around him and allows him to attack and take cover at the same time. Dva has about 2s of DM, a massive critbox and lack of armor, which what makes her melt fast and not much of a tank now.

I know its not fair to compare her to other tanks because shes not them but supposedly played like Winston. So lets compare, at least for Winston, his bubble allows him to damage and take cover at the same time, while he does not even have more armor and less health than Dva about 100hp, he's still more durable than her as a tank.

Dva on the other hand has no other way to mitigate damage aside from DM but does not help mitigate damage to her as shes supposed to be face tanking while taking heavy damage and needs some sort of sustainabiilty to soak them in and at least get some kills and get away. Right now, if you attempt that, you're likely to be demeched, fast.

Basically shes squishy as a tank where she needs to heavily rely on healers more than others.
Her only problem right now is lacking survivability and self-sustain, her damage is fine
One of my ideas would be to give her a very slow auto-health regeneration passive, kinda like Lucio but slower and only for herself,this would atleast deal with the sustain problem
I've read about 10 pages back and there seems to be quite a few posts that are claiming that the only people who like the DVA changes are DPS mains or people who don't even play DVA etc. Since this thread seems to be the official Dva feedback thread, I'll just toss my own views here.

I'm not a DVA main or a DPS main, I have some hours all around and I've played the game since launch. I actually like the new DVA as I had felt the 4s DM was definitely a bit overboard (having both faced it as a DPS and used it as DVA)and I felt that a lot of players I have faced in competitive (at least in gold and plat) overly relied on the DM. They often used it unnecessarily to block random trash damage and never realising that a tap is all you need most of the time.

As for tankiness, I feel that a lot of the times where I lost my Meka, I had dived too deep and I would have lost it anyway even if I had 4s of DM. It's why I felt that the statistics saying DVA blocking 33% less damage but only losing her Meka 5% (8%?) more sounded pretty accurate. Players are blocking less trash damage and the increase is probably caused by players getting too bloodthirsty by DVA's improved ability to chase down targets and they overextended more often.

However, I also think that it is too early to tell just yet and we should at least wait until the season to be over for better statistics. I would also prefer to watch a few pro games that uses the new patch to see how the pros have adapted to it.

10/03/2017 07:57 AMPosted by PyroX
New Dva can`t tank or dps. Here is the link than prove that Dva 2.0 can`t tank or dps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2Vs-VK35RE&t=0s . Dva is not viable anymore. Rework are not supposed to make character worst , it supposed to make them better not worst. Blizzard remove the fun of playing Dva when they made this rework.


As for this video, the impression I'm getting is that he talks about Dva like she exists in a different dimension where she is alone and have to do all the work herself. It's like over analyzing a pizza dough (DVA) and saying it taste like crap but forgets that pizza dough needs to be with cheese(support), meat (dps) and other stuff to make a pizza (team).

In my view, a 2 second difference in matrix duration doesn't change things that much considering Dva is not normally solo tanking, is usually partnered with Winston and she can take advantage of that Winston bubble too. So, a perfect engagement would be Winston and Dva happily doing their thing for however however long the bubble lasted + 2 seconds of protection from DM once the bubble is down. If things don't go well, with old DM, she'd just last 2 seconds longer if she just stands there or boost out along with Winston which is what you'd do anyway with new DM.

When talking about damage dealing, he again treats her like a pizza dough. He just talks about how the gun and the missiles contradict each other and she would just die if she goes point blank but makes no mention at all to the boost, shoot, boop, etc. combo thing.

Also, I have to say, starting at the 13-14 minute mark where he showed off his DVA gameplay at King's Row, I'm pretty sure any DVa player will agree that not even 4s matrix Dva can survive by how he face tanks Roadhog and how he solo dives overly far from his teammates. You can't just show footage of bad play and say the hero is bad.

Anyway, I've ranted long enough. These are just my opinions.
10/03/2017 10:27 PMPosted by Avior
10/03/2017 08:29 PMPosted by Gojira
The missiles do 162 max and recharge in 8 seconds, so Bliz can just give us 162/8 = 20.25 DPS on the cannons and we're good.

You forgot to include the delay and channeling duration.

=(9×18)÷(8+0.5+1.6)
=162÷10.1
=16.04 DPS


It's funny. That's like her dps in the past before it got nerfed. Hmm.. which got nerfed for no reason besides the people whining about dva being too tanky in season 3 with an ana pumping darts to her meka butt, but her damage apparently had to go. Despite jeff saying last year that her damage is too weak.

And now have to give her damage back to compensate, because even with a mercy attached to her rear she can get one clipped by a single soldier, which is just pathetic when other tanks can and will be very hard for a single dps to take down if they are being healed. Single soldier can never even bypass Orisa's shield, but can kill another tank in one clip while they're being healed.

When we could do all that we can now do with her previous cannons anyway, but without the massive clunkyness of having projectiles+ hitscan + selfharm and without the burst damage ohko potential if people don't move which has been noted in the past to cause discord.

In my honest opinion, if dva was given her old cannons with that 9% more damage back because they apparently want us to be more dps'ey and removed the missiles, kept the ability to fly while shooting and given either critbox reduction/100hp swapped to 100 armor/2,5-3 second matrix max, she'd be much more balanced as a character, as a tank who doesn't instantly melt and as a diver, while not being op in any of the categories or dumb.

But then again hitscan weps would be far too reliable when you shoot things if you got any aim, the only reason dva is not touted as op is because she melts and her damage consistency is way off. Add in any damage consistency with the ability to shoot while flying and lol she'd become pretty darn good. Darn good dva is a hated dva, so we won't get that.

When you consider that old Dva could do the same amount of dps with hitscan weapons, while being much tankier and with a longer matrix... you realise this is all just a bigger nerf. In a sum of nerfbats.
Simply put.... I think the devs do not want to admit the fact that they screwed up in the previous massive nerf. And now it feels they are desperately trying to solve the issue without reverting the obviously flawed health/armor/damage nerf.
You forgot to include the delay and channeling duration.

=(9×18)÷(8+0.5+1.6)
=162÷10.1
=16.04 DPS


It's funny. That's like her dps in the past before it got nerfed. Hmm.. which got nerfed for no reason besides the people whining about dva being too tanky in season 3 with an ana pumping darts to her meka butt, but her damage apparently had to go. Despite jeff saying last year that her damage is too weak.

One thing I want to clarify:
We shouldn't add Micro Missiles to her total DPS, but treat it like a burst damage tool that deals an additional 101.25 DPS.
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It's funny. That's like her dps in the past before it got nerfed. Hmm.. which got nerfed for no reason besides the people whining about dva being too tanky in season 3 with an ana pumping darts to her meka butt, but her damage apparently had to go. Despite jeff saying last year that her damage is too weak.

One thing I want to clarify:
We shouldn't add Micro Missiles to her total DPS, but treat it like a burst damage tool that deals an additional 101.25 DPS.


Sure, I do realise that micro missiles are a lot more bursty than her old cannons, doing that damage in 2 seconds.

But this is where the inconsistency of the burst come to play, which makes the missiles lackuster in bursting because enemies have to practically stand still to get burst down or they otherwise just get tickled. Not to mention the burst doesn't always work because it has to hit a single character in the span of 2 seconds, not always applicable especially when dva's new method is to rush in booster and guns blazing and shoot missiles into people. Other burst like genji's shuriken animation cancel to swiftstrike are much easier to limit into 1 people or are not negated by the presence of more because it's aoe.

Most of the time you end up hurting yourself more than you hurt the enemy with the missiles and isn't that just ironic?

Missile inconsistency is why dva's old cannons would work a lot better for her than bursty missiles that never hit their mark.
10/04/2017 02:24 AMPosted by Typhoon
Her missiles need tracking, since they don't compliment her primary fire. It would allow them to be more consistent. Though, they shouldn't need to be able to turn more than 20 degrees, or so. They don't need to go around corners, or whatever, they just need enough to not disrupt D.Va's main damage option. Is this unreasonable?


Yes it is. You're underestimating how broken guided missiles even of just 20 degrees would be. Much this game is spamming chokes. She could literally just spam choke points and would get nothing but direct hits every time for zero aiming. It's honestly an absurd suggestion.
10/04/2017 12:39 AMPosted by TheHunter
10/04/2017 12:24 AMPosted by Kmach
Dva feels like another version of Winston, a diving tank. I like the rework a lot, I was never a big fan of holding down the right click for defensive matrix. I think she's in a pretty good state right now.

2 weeks ago I wouldnt have agreed to this. I got used to the changes and Im having a blast playing her. As long as you have a consistent healer on you she works wonders.

Edit: Well, no surprise here. Downvoted for stating my opinion. God forbid I get used to the changes, have fun with them and help my team.


Any opinion or thought that is not in line with the rhetoric spewed by the self professed leaders on how to play DVa is considered blasphemy and will be met with downvotes.

Youre nto allowed to have fun on DVa, or say that shes actually pretty decent and strong. Obey the will, or be downvoted and told youre wrong cause youre just wrong!

:|
Hey can you guys frick off and leave D VA alone she's just a kid and oyu guys are bullying her. STAHP!
After playing her quite a bit I find defense matrix to be near useless because it still doesn't cover allies unless you are in the face of whatever it is that is shooting.

However, I remember when D.Va had cone matrix.

That's my suggestion, return to the cone matrix so that with her halved uptime of DM, she can actually protect a team like a tank and also protect herself from a wider angle of fire.
10/04/2017 08:03 AMPosted by Rocko
10/04/2017 02:24 AMPosted by Typhoon
Her missiles need tracking, since they don't compliment her primary fire. It would allow them to be more consistent. Though, they shouldn't need to be able to turn more than 20 degrees, or so. They don't need to go around corners, or whatever, they just need enough to not disrupt D.Va's main damage option. Is this unreasonable?


Yes it is. You're underestimating how broken guided missiles even of just 20 degrees would be. Much this game is spamming chokes. She could literally just spam choke points and would get nothing but direct hits every time for zero aiming. It's honestly an absurd suggestion.

Agreed.

The obvious solution is just to get rid of them because they're absolutely trash and get back maybe a second of DM.

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