Should we blame the "pros" for support class nerfs?

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Mercy needed a SMALL increase on CD reset when ulting, not 30 seconds which basically makes it "meh", that is it...........and yes as I have stated multiple times the other healers need buffs.


What? Support buffs? No no we need go reduce the distance on Lucio's wallrides obviously. That is the real issue at hand.

It's very important that support heroes couldn't ruin killstreaks. How dare Lucio to escape mighty Genji, and even push him off map.
10/05/2017 09:43 AMPosted by Lusbelle
10/05/2017 09:38 AMPosted by jvilla225
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A lot of the money is coming from the teams buying spots for the Overwatch League.


Just see the pros, see Seagull or others, what kind of example do they give? Become a morbid obese like the pros? Become a useless chair heater who thinks moving a mouse is a sport? Idk, it’s a baffling era when people like Taimou can be arrogant. Not rich, not fit, not a genius, not even handsome.


We're not at a bodybuilding competition. You don't expect a surgeon to look like Lazar Angelov, but you do expect him to patch you up flawlessly. Same goes for eSport players - you should exercsise, eat healthy and look good for yourself, but that's not in the job description.

Invalidating pro's opinions regarding balances changes based on looks is dumber than playing this game on a controller.
10/05/2017 10:53 AMPosted by Cleopatra
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What? Support buffs? No no we need go reduce the distance on Lucio's wallrides obviously. That is the real issue at hand.

It's very important that support heroes couldn't ruin killstreaks. How dare Lucio to escape mighty Genji, and even push him off map.


Next up?

"Why is Zenyatta countering my dragonblade with Transcendence? What? Why does this DJ give people shields that makes my sword not slice people???? How absurd!!!"
10/05/2017 10:36 AMPosted by Seefer
10/05/2017 10:31 AMPosted by Terranguard
...the other healers need buffs and Mercy needed a nerf.

it was both


Mercy needed a SMALL increase on CD reset when ulting, not 30 seconds which basically makes it "meh", that is it...........and yes as I have stated multiple times the other healers need buffs.
I didn't say it should be so big I just meant something less giant.
Lmao.
So now we're blaming the pros? Seriously?

Roadhog, Genji, Widow, Mccree, Doomfist, etc.
Doesn't seem right that these all DPS pro teams would want their best characters nerfed. Or maybe it has something to do with the fact that Blizzard also looks at statistics, forums, Support/Tank pro's opinions, their own testing, the "casuals" opinions, reddit, etc etc.
You're making it out to be this one sided situation, where the pro's opinions dictate the balancing of the game. Yet, this is simply untrue.

Another thing I find hilarious, is the fact that this forum is suddenly acting as if giving the pro's opinions more weight is treason. I could've sworn that a month or two ago the forum was deep in conversation on whether Blizz should balance around the pros or casuals, and the majority chose pros.
I don't see why it's so surprising that a professional's opinion would have more sway than a gold's.

I completely disagree with your opinion on this matter.
This honestly is a weak post, that has garnered attention simply because it's controversial.
The Overwatch community as a whole needs to stop blaming everything on the Devs, Pros, the team, the Junkrat, etc ect. It's why this community is so toxic.

If you disagree with a nerf, buff, change, or rework. Disagree using facts, statistics, and strong arguments, not anecdotes, feelings, and blame.
Maybe then, and only then, will you realize that the Devs do listen.
10/05/2017 11:32 AMPosted by Corpro
Lmao.
So now we're blaming the pros? Seriously?

Roadhog, Genji, Widow, Mccree, Doomfist, etc.
Doesn't seem right that these all DPS pro teams would want their best characters nerfed. Or maybe it has something to do with the fact that Blizzard also looks at statistics, forums, Support/Tank pro's opinions, their own testing, the "casuals" opinions, reddit, etc etc.
You're making it out to be this one sided situation, where the pro's opinions dictate the balancing of the game. Yet, this is simply untrue.

Another thing I find hilarious, is the fact that this forum is suddenly acting as if giving the pro's opinions more weight is treason. I could've sworn that a month or two ago the forum was deep in conversation on whether Blizz should balance around the pros or casuals, and the majority chose pros.
I don't see why it's so surprising that a professional's opinion would have more sway than a gold's.

I completely disagree with your opinion on this matter.
This honestly is a weak post, that has garnered attention simply because it's controversial.
The Overwatch community as a whole needs to stop blaming everything on the Devs, Pros, the team, the Junkrat, etc ect. It's why this community is so toxic.

If you disagree with a nerf, buff, change, or rework. Disagree using facts, statistics, and strong arguments, not anecdotes, feelings, and blame.
Maybe then, and only then, will you realize that the Devs do listen.


You dont need statistics to see how pros that were mainly dps kept complaining about abilities that made their dps character not deal damage like defense matrix or made their damage useless bc of a rez.
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Just see the pros, see Seagull or others, what kind of example do they give? Become a morbid obese like the pros? Become a useless chair heater who thinks moving a mouse is a sport? Idk, it’s a baffling era when people like Taimou can be arrogant. Not rich, not fit, not a genius, not even handsome.


We're not at a bodybuilding competition. You don't expect a surgeon to look like Lazar Angelov, but you do expect him to patch you up flawlessly. Same goes for eSport players - you should exercsise, eat healthy and look good for yourself, but that's not in the job description.

Invalidating pro's opinions regarding balances changes based on looks is dumber than playing this game on a controller.


I invalidate pro's opinions (for OW specifically) because:

1. They aren't good at real FPS games, like I have said, Taimou, Seagull and other "pros" have aim on the levels of matchmaking trash from CS;GO or Quake (for verticality).

2. They are heavily biased towards DPS and not anything else, but are too coward (and bad) to get into real arena shooters.

3. It is a terrible example to give to the youth, to put such examples of humanity as something to look upon. I mean, why look upon Tesla or Bill Gates when you can look upon a morbidly obese person playing games who does nothing significant to society? At least real sports players are examples of fitness, geniuses like Tesla change humanity, a surgeon saves lives, but these people? Yeah, they can move a mouse more efficiently, so... gg?
I am no pro but even I can tell you that mercy was broken af.
I was watching a Youtube video recently (can't remember which channel) about the supposed necessity of Mercy, and they were discussing a game between two high-level six stacks with a Mercy on on side and an Ana on the other, and the result was a lot closer than might be thought. Their thinking was that in a high-level six-stack game, with all the co-ordination involved in players used to working with each other and being able to capitalise on Ana's abilities, she's just as viable a main healer as Mercy is.

On the other hand, someone like Mercy is far more effective than Ana in a more chaotic game without that kind of teamwork, since Resurrection is frequently a mistake-fixer and Mercy is more able to heal teammates who run in all directions rather than Ana with her reliance on her teammates staying within line of sight. Of course, since very few people stack in groups of more than three because of the way it biases SR level against large groups, six-stacks just aren't going to be happening that often outside of professional play.

I don't know if Overwatch is being purely balanced to the level of GM/Pro players, but I do think that it's being balanced with the intent of communication six-stack teams like the pros, and I think that overlooks the fact that some characters perform a lot better in a more casual, chaotic enviroment than others. For all I know, they thought Ana was absolutely fine and didn't need adjustment because they thought she'd be viable again once the dive meta was over, but what works in pro play may not work on even the highest levels of the competitive ladder.

I don't know if Blizzard are listening too much to the individual pros, but I do think that they're trying to balance around the pro scene and the quality of gameplay involved in pro games, and if that means that some characters aren't always viable to casual players than that's the way it goes. And if they think having weaker supports will lead to more exciting matches in pro play, because the DPS classes will have greater carry capacity, then that's what I think they would do because they're banking a lot of the viability of e-sports right now.
The game should be balanced around the pros imo so no one hero is so op at that level
"Let us just keep buffing Genji and leave the OP broken Tracer without a nerf since launch even though 50% of Top500 players are Tracer mains while nerfing all the supports because those flankers have been crying because their stupid picks got rezed" Blizzard
10/05/2017 11:37 AMPosted by jvilla225


You dont need statistics to see how pros that were mainly dps kept complaining about abilities that made their dps character not deal damage like defense matrix or made their damage useless bc of a rez.


Rez alone was a lesson in frustration, when you factor in that Mercy is one of, if not, the hardest characters to consistently kill, easy to play, and is also played in about 80% of competitive matches. You have a character that is not only frustrating, but too good for how easy she is to play.

Defense Matrix is another story, as it isn't really on one of the best characters. I'm going to assume that the pro's main issue with defense matrix was the fact that it was up often and countered a good bit of ults. I've never really had an issue with it.

I'm also positive that pro DPS mains aren't the only ones complaining. I'm sure players like MoonMoon, Harableu, DSPstanky, etc have gotten frustrated or even complained about certain characters on stream.
Maybe give Mercy less cd on her res and remove her one click res.

Instead make it a combo of button clicks just like how road hog was changed because his "one shot kills" were unfair.

You know how roadhog has to first land a hook,then shoot ,then use a melee and if the rng of your confetti shots don't kill then try another shot.

I heard all these requests how it was "unfun" to play against a one shot combo.

It's weird how all the work put into killing someone could be undone by a "one shot revive". It's totally "not fun" to play against.

I never heard anyone say Roadhog was nerfed because the pros asked for it.
10/04/2017 11:34 PMPosted by jvilla225
Kaplan has gone out and talked about a "balance triangle"

Stats
Dev sentiments
Player sentiments

I think it has gone from a triangle to a square and the fourth point would be

Pros sentiments

That or the Pros are occupying the space and voice of the "players"

Nah, it's still a triangle.

Stats
Dev's sentiments
Pros sentiments
10/05/2017 12:53 AMPosted by Mineos
Blizzard just has to balance their game around stats gathered in competitive plays, not the forum, pros or Twitchers.

Mercy was almost 100% pickrate and 55%+ win rate. This is an OW record.
She deserves a nerf according to stats. End of the story. Don't blame Twitchers for supporting a nerf based on such horrible stats.

RH was gutted because of this forum, no matter stats didn't show anything. Mercy is nerfed because she has a pickrate of almost 100%. See the difference?
because other healers suck.
100% positive this occurs. I have loved fighting games for quite some time and this is old news in that game genre. When the pros complain, it gets changed.

I wish they could focus more on the 99% of the player base that doesn't play top level, everything on earth is the biggest deal, Overwatch but...they have to. I understand. I just wish my favorite character wasn't touched constantly because now pro players are playing "too good."
you guys are being really cringey honestly. i really doubt only dps pro players are in that discord

There are a lot of tank and support pros that arent as popular/don't stream that have also given blizzard feedback

trying to shift blame of a nerf to community members is quite pathetic. It was probably due to mercys crazy relevance that got her nerfed not because some streamer told them so

you people need to go outside jesus
10/05/2017 12:08 PMPosted by Robin
you guys are being really cringey honestly. i really doubt only dps pro players are in that discord

There are a lot of tank and support pros that arent as popular/don't stream that have also given blizzard feedback

trying to shift blame of a nerf to community members is quite pathetic. It was probably due to mercys crazy relevance that got her nerfed not because some streamer told them so

you people need to go outside jesus


I didnt say dps pros were the only ones in that server. Changes that have happened recently shows how much better off dps characters are. This coupled with how most dps pros cant be unbiased and how they have a discord server would lead people to think how sketchy this whole thing is.

Im willing to bet that if support pros would all complain about genji or tracer that dev team wouldnt make changes this quickly if not at all.
10/05/2017 11:38 AMPosted by Lusbelle
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We're not at a bodybuilding competition. You don't expect a surgeon to look like Lazar Angelov, but you do expect him to patch you up flawlessly. Same goes for eSport players - you should exercsise, eat healthy and look good for yourself, but that's not in the job description.

Invalidating pro's opinions regarding balances changes based on looks is dumber than playing this game on a controller.


I invalidate pro's opinions (for OW specifically) because:

1. They aren't good at real FPS games, like I have said, Taimou, Seagull and other "pros" have aim on the levels of matchmaking trash from CS;GO or Quake (for verticality).

2. They are heavily biased towards DPS and not anything else, but are too coward (and bad) to get into real arena shooters.

3. It is a terrible example to give to the youth, to put such examples of humanity as something to look upon. I mean, why look upon Tesla or Bill Gates when you can look upon a morbidly obese person playing games who does nothing significant to society? At least real sports players are examples of fitness, geniuses like Tesla change humanity, a surgeon saves lives, but these people? Yeah, they can move a mouse more efficiently, so... gg?


Look, I'm not even going to pretend that I will ever consider eSport players on the same level as someone like Michael Jordan, Novak Djokovic, Leo Messi... no matter how hard Blizzard tries to pull this out with OW League. I do enjoy to watch a pro Overwatch match, though.

But my point stands - job description doesn't include looking good. Then again, I personally can't imagine myself enjoying the fame that comes from OWL if I was 20% bf, so I both agree and disagree with you.
In WoW the developers had (has?) a big blog they wrote in quite often about what they thought about the current state of the game and how to change it.

I wish OW had that, it would stop a lot of speculation from the community and help people voice their concerns.

Instead all we get are buffs and nerfs flying around, locked threads from people voicing their concerns and a lot of angry people.

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