IMO, DM is pointless until they start counting assists

General Discussion
I'm so tired of the kill stealing. The notion that you get full credit for a kill despite only doing a small amount of damage is incredibly frustrating as a player. I thought frustrating gameplay elements was a big no-no in game design.

Is there a gameplay reason for only awarding points to whomever gets the last hit? Why do I feel like I'm playing Dota 2 again? If I go 1v1 as a Zenyatta versus a Doomfist, and get him down to one hit, but a Tracer blinks in, steals the kill, and rewinds back, why don't I get any credit for my gameplay? She gets all the credit for doing hardly anything other than being at the right place at the right time.

At least make it so every 2 assists equals an extra point or so. It boggles the mind. I know they can track damage done so I know they can even tell who does the majority of the damage on a kill.
Yes at the very least two assists should be be a kill. You can get someone from 200 to 1 but if someone tickles away that last health point you've essentially done nothing.
I take it you've never played a deathmatch mode in any game before.
Welcome to every deathmatch game since the dawn of time.
09/26/2017 06:31 PMPosted by HappyFeet
I take it you've never played a deathmatch mode in any game before.


09/26/2017 06:33 PMPosted by IakSakkakh
Welcome to every deathmatch game since the dawn of time.


The difference is that in most shooters, fights are significantly faster. Overwatch has more drawn out duels which greatly increases the chance for a kill steal.
09/26/2017 06:36 PMPosted by DaSquyd
09/26/2017 06:31 PMPosted by HappyFeet
I take it you've never played a deathmatch mode in any game before.


09/26/2017 06:33 PMPosted by IakSakkakh
Welcome to every deathmatch game since the dawn of time.


The difference is that in most shooters, fights are significantly faster. Overwatch has more drawn out duels which greatly increases the chance for a kill steal.
Ok

It's still a death match
Question to op and those who agree; would you be saying that if in the normal game modes you only got an elimination for delivering the final blow to an enemy?. This is how it is in the vast majority of shooters, blizzards elims just give you the illusion that you kill more in the team modes than you actually do. The very same reason you cannot see everyone's stats during a game it's all to stimulate the player and make then feel better than they are.

Deathmatch has lifted this veil. This is not a dig at you, this is just how it is. Blizzard should just have the scoreboard show us our actual stats. I read a post from someone here that I thought made a very good point- we only see our own stats and if eveeyonesx on the voice chat we can only compete against one another for kills/healing when we should be competing against the enemy team.
I also don't understand these threads. Have you never player death match before? Halo? Call of duty? Battlefield? Seriously?

This is what death match (free for all) is and what it will continue to be.

Think about it.... If assists counted towards points, those same tracers that you're calling kill Steelers are still going to win due to their ability to generate 15 assists on average.

So no don't make assists count. Limiting heroes could be a solution but I'll say no to that too. There's a reason this is under the arcade play list.
They just need to remove the elimination notification unless its the killing blow

That way Im not like "yeah i got him...*glances at kill feed*...wait wtf"
Well you are entitled to your opinion. MY opinion it's the easiest and most consistent way to get arcade wins.
09/26/2017 06:39 PMPosted by Andrey
I also don't understand these threads. Have you never player death match before? Halo? Call of duty? Battlefield? Seriously?


I don't understand these posts. Why would we want to go back to the olden days of no assist credit and no reason to play supports?
I've played lots and lots of other death matches, and comparing this game to them is just stupid, period.

Halo, Call of Duty, Half Life, Unreal (the list goes on and on), everyone is the same. Has access to the same weapons, has the same mobility, same health pool... everyone is the same and everyone dies a lot faster. It was possible to kill steal but it was difficult and 9/10 was by accident. (Not that you wouldn't have had you known)

In Overwatch, everyone has a different weapon, different health, different mobility. And people die A LOT SLOWER, making kill stealing a real issue. FFA DM is currently poorly designed because of how easy is it to win by doing the least amount of effort. I agree that in other games kill stealing isn't an issue and you just have to deal with it, but in Overwatch kill stealing ruins the entire game mode. You know, unless you're the one kill stealing. I suggest you just play genji or tracer and just kill steal if you really want to play Overwatch DM.
09/26/2017 07:10 PMPosted by Sovereign
I've played lots and lots of other death matches, and comparing this game to them is just stupid, period.

Halo, Call of Duty, Half Life, Unreal (the list goes on and on), everyone is the same. Has access to the same weapons, has the same mobility, same health pool... everyone is the same and everyone dies a lot faster. It was possible to kill steal but it was difficult and 9/10 was by accident. (Not that you wouldn't have had you known)

In Overwatch, everyone has a different weapon, different health, different mobility. And people die A LOT SLOWER, making kill stealing a real issue. FFA DM is currently poorly designed because of how easy is it to win by doing the least amount of effort. I agree that in other games kill stealing isn't an issue and you just have to deal with it, but in Overwatch kill stealing ruins the entire game mode. You know, unless you're the one kill stealing. I suggest you just play genji or tracer and just kill steal if you really want to play Overwatch DM.


This doesn't make kill stealing imbalanced. In call of duty there are different classes: some better suited for kill stealing than others. Unreal is the sane different characters. In ow dm hitscan rule the school. Yet hanzos win all the time as do junkrats, I've won with zeb many times and I've seen mercy win.

They don't need to dumb down a game mode just cos some people feel they deserve to win with say- Winston and don't change up their strat since they know winston takes about 3 seconds to kill a squishy and look for only clean ups despite knowing his limitations.
It's part of the game. You can finish off other people's work too.
09/26/2017 06:38 PMPosted by Dogsdontlie
Question to op and those who agree; would you be saying that if in the normal game modes you only got an elimination for delivering the final blow to an enemy?.


Of course not. The point of the normal mode is to win as a team and complete the objective. Kills are ancillary. In Deathmatch mode, though, kills are everything. That's the difference.

09/26/2017 06:38 PMPosted by Dogsdontlie
This is how it is in the vast majority of shooters,


Overwatch isn't those games, though. In fact, even Overwatch's Deathmatch mode is completely different from other games' deathmatch mode.

Again, it goes back to the point of when is frustrating too frustrating and should it be fixed. I'm of the opinion that a balance could be worked out where you get credit for doing most of the work on a kill. Blizzard has the stat tracking ability to do this. And there is no logical reason why you would be against it. It objectively makes the entire mode more fair for EVERYBODY.
It's deathmatch man. Every deathmatch ever has counted final blows as the stat to win, not assists.
09/28/2017 05:17 PMPosted by WorstPlayer
It's deathmatch man. Every deathmatch ever has counted final blows as the stat to win, not assists.


But... why does it have to be like that for Overwatch? In CS:GO, for example, it's completely different because everybody moves the same and uses - for the most part - the same weapons. There aren't nearly as many times where you lose a kill because some chucklehead hits your opponent one time for the final hit. It happens a TON in Overwatch DM.

It seems like the only argument given for this, so far, is that "it's like that in other games so that's why it's like that here". Can't you see how poor of an argument that is?

Again, it would OBJECTIVELY be fairer for EVERY PLAYER if you got credit for your assists. How much credit you should get would be a balancing issue. Two assists equals a point? Three assists? I don't know. I'm sure Blizzard could test it out, though.

In fact, I'd start out at 75%. That's a good majority of the damage. If you do 75% of the damage and the guy dies before getting back to full health, YOU get the credit for the kill and anyone else gets an assist. That means they did, at most, 25% of the damage. Three assists, a total of 75%, would then equal 1 additional point. Bam. I solved it. Logic. Let's get this implemented, Blizzard.
So what if you win a game by swift striking as a genji into a group of three players, don't kill any of them and get a point out of the assists?

Jump in as winston, zap a bunch if people, win the game of assists. Or even worse, you help someone win by finishing off the enemies in the room. It's counter-intuitive clunky gameplay. Ffa just requires a different play style, the main skill in ffa is to be able to stay alive, be aware and get cleanups.

It brings up an interesting point tho, I think if every character was balanced for ffa in some regard HR would balance the game overall. Eg; giving rein a faster swing.
At least they're a tiebreaker if you have the same number of kills. (unless deaths count more, I dunno)
Play some Quake. Killstealing is hard because fights usually happen too fast to try it, and SOP is to kill whoever survives the 1v1, not Swift Strike in and get an easy no-skill double kill. You need the hard-to-get Railgun to killsteal effectively, or sometimes just a Rocket Launcher, and even then it's better for outright DMing or finishing the survivor if your aim is good enough. If you can only get a Lightning Gun, Shotgun, or something similar, you can't really reliably killsteal, because you don't have any range. In fact, you don't really have any range in general without a Railgun in Quake. Also, everyone has exactly the same mobility, except for the guys who grabbed Rocket Launchers, who need to hurt themselves.

Overwatch, however, is based mostly around being able to close out kills on wounded or distracted targets, and you spawn with whatever weapon and mobility your hero uses. It's just not a game engine built for FFA. There's a reason most matches are just two each of Genji, McCree, Tracer, and Junkrat.

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