Forced losses after beating season high, proof included

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Try playing Heroes of the Storm. You will then know the true meaning of getting potato team mates. Overwatch is child's play compared to that game
10/04/2017 10:34 AMPosted by xsun
10/03/2017 05:35 PMPosted by TheRealBiono
...

Yeah. Same happened to me, at the beggining of the season I had a 75% winrate and since then, it slowly started going down to nearly reach 50% today. Today, I played 4 games and lost 3 of them and drawed the last one. In the three games I lost, I had a pretty horrible team, they talked and all, but just weren't the same skill as the other team.
At beginning of the season I was 100% winrate, after that I got around 30% winrate. right now overall about 60%+


You played like 5h entire season. I can play 5h in a day...

Play more and things will be presented to you in such a manner that no other conclusion is reasonable.
10/04/2017 05:59 PMPosted by Stebung
You are making some serious accusations on the matchmaker setting up selected people for losses.

As a company there is zero benefit for them to do that. It takes extra algorithms, processing power and database space to track player history and engineer losing streaks for specific players. It's a useless feature it makes no sense to implement something like that.


But they have already stated that they have IMPLEMENTED HIDDEN MMR

We all would be way more pleased with just "Put 12 players with same rank on the server" and give same SR gain/loss to entire team

You are contradicting a stated fact by Blizzard
Matchmaker finds your mmr (hidden rating)

Matchmaker grabs 11 others.

Game splits them to equal a average.

Teams go 6v6.

Its not forced.

Do any of you even know how RESOURCE intensive it would be to track your win streaks and force you to lose based on how 11 other players are currently playing.

Let alone to code that?

Are people really this dumb?

:/


Not very hard, simple statistic and can be crunched into algorithm in fraction of a second.

If what you say is what you want, care to explain benefits and utility of having HIDDEN MMR over simple SR?
10/04/2017 10:29 PMPosted by A13YROLDGIRL
Neither blizzard nor the matchmaker can see into the future and know who is going to throw their next game, or not play up to their rank.

You are being teamed with people, not bots. People are unpredictable.


They really do not need.

Take just players with 40% win-rates at same SR and throw couple of 60% win-rates at same time. Then cross your fingers and hope they level each other out.

Or

Take players with 2000, 2000, 2000, 2000, 1000, 3000 and stuck them on other side. Then throw 2000, 2000, 2000, 2000, 2000, 2000 on the others team. Then cross your fingers and hope they level each out.

EVEN BETTER

Combine those two. Not really any task to design such a algorithm for company like Blizzard
10/05/2017 11:54 AMPosted by Stebung
I repeat, the matchmaker is not actively seeking out people on winning streaks just to make them lose. It's just not feasible as an actual feature.


And how does the SR/MMR system "tries to find fair match that would have 50%/50% probable outcome". Guess it?
10/06/2017 06:28 AMPosted by necrosis
All I can say is this.

Think... HARD.

When was the last time you had a match where one team did not steamroll the other? When was the last time you had a hard fought match where either win or lose you felt 'good' about it?


At least once a day. It's always in a game without guys playing Hanzo crying about how they're going to lose because they're on a winning streak and Jeff Kaplan knows.
10/06/2017 04:12 PMPosted by Plague
10/04/2017 05:59 PMPosted by Stebung
You are making some serious accusations on the matchmaker setting up selected people for losses.

As a company there is zero benefit for them to do that. It takes extra algorithms, processing power and database space to track player history and engineer losing streaks for specific players. It's a useless feature it makes no sense to implement something like that.


But they have already stated that they have IMPLEMENTED HIDDEN MMR

We all would be way more pleased with just "Put 12 players with same rank on the server" and give same SR gain/loss to entire team

You are contradicting a stated fact by Blizzard


You didn't really explain anything here, you just highlighted some woeds.....

MMR is something that is hidden, meaning you don't know exactly what it is, or what it contains, but that doesn't mean it force you on a loss? I don't get your point.

My own guess is.... Since it stands for matchmaking rating, matchmaker use it PURELY to find the best matches for a player, based on their average hero stats and whole bunch of other stats that we don't know.

And once they are in a match made based on MMR, their win/loss translates to SR/skill rating. And their MMR is also adjusted after every match based on performance. And your MMR and SR changes as your season goes on.

That's how I see the blizzard's rating system works.

What you are suggesting is, somehow, MMR tracks your match history and up to a certain point, it decides... "ok you start losing now".... and match you with 5 people on your team that "some how" will guarantee that you will lose, AND at the same time guaranteeing all 12 players on either team have similar SR/MMR range?

Can you explain to me HOW in your world forced loss streak works?

10/06/2017 04:23 PMPosted by Plague
10/05/2017 11:54 AMPosted by Stebung
I repeat, the matchmaker is not actively seeking out people on winning streaks just to make them lose. It's just not feasible as an actual feature.


And how does the SR/MMR system "tries to find fair match that would have 50%/50% probable outcome". Guess it?


As I've said, MMR is matchmaker rating, it's hidden and most likely based on your hero average stats, performance, and other stats that we don't know. But in a general sense it measures your performance, like your SR, but way more complicated and in detail.

So they match 12 people with similar MMR/SR together and form 2 teams.

It's basically like in a relay running race. They found 12 people running within 30-35 seconds range and divided into two 6-man teams. So how is this not fair?

However if you ask me whether MMR/SR is a reliable for representing a player's skill level, that's an entirely different discussion. It has nothing to do with match making.
There are too many factors at play when you participate in competitive match up. I would say it's impossible to pre determine some elements of the system.

It's not perfect, and you can pretty much let go of any hope that it will ever be.
10/06/2017 11:24 AMPosted by xsun
10/05/2017 11:54 AMPosted by Stebung

Which is the entire topic! People here thinks having a win streak results in a loss streak! I already explained the reason might be your streak brought you up to an MMR range you don't belong in, and you won't perform as well against much better opponents. But even then, the match should still be close to 50/50 with odds only slightly against you, because there might be someone JUST like you on the other team, and you might still win. It's completely up to your own and your team's performance to decide match's outcome!

I repeat, the matchmaker is not actively seeking out people on winning streaks just to make them lose. It's just not feasible as an actual feature.
The problem is, if MM works as we imagined:
1) the win streak should not existed at beginning. However there is people practiced a lot with another account, if you win a lot with winning rate 80%+, that is to say you should be in a other level.
2) Even this the system is not going to push you dramatically, it should be gradually journey. There should be winning rate 80% -> 70% -> 60% -> 50% -> 40% -> 50% something like this. (not 80% -> 20%.) In this case you should not have losing streak.
3) As you said because someone got luck and positioned higher than she/he should be, even this he/she should not have very long losing streak.
conclusion: If the MM system works as we imagined (no as intended :P), we should not have very long losing/winning streak. The MM system is created to eliminate the streak not create it.

The reliability of the performance MMR/SR is in question from the beginning.

A lot of problem would be solved if they didn't choose to use performance based SR for a TEAM game.

DPS cannot perform well without tanks blocking and healers healing for them.

Tanks cannot stay alive to perform if DPS don't return fire and healers heal them.

Healers cannot perform if tanks and DPS don't protect them from flankers.

Every class is dependent on each other, it makes no sense to have a SR system based on performance.

That's why the win/loss streaks you mentioned happens. People are being placed all over the place.

But it has nothing to do with matchmaker. Everyone is getting bad matches. And people climbed despite that. So yes some people get unlucky streaks, but it's problem with bad MMR/SR system not rating people properly, so matchmaking seems completely random, on top of that, the lack of any hero/role preference does not help either.
I support and empathize with this thread.

Performance based SR has to go.

I've dropped 300 SR from last season for no reason other than the fact I had too high a winrate. *cough* around 52 at the time.

Make fairer games with everyone around your *SR* not a controlled environment based on MMR. 25 for a win 25 for a loss after placements.

Makes it feel rigged. Second account placed higher :/

Also: ROLE SELECT. Guilds?/Teams. In game messaging on console!
I had my season high at 2650, it was nice but I felt I could go higher. Currently at 2400 after losing ~10 in a row with no end in sight. Meanwhile I had a ~10 game winning streak last season, a good chunk which I had no business winning. This ranking system is an absolute joke and I've been playing less and less. Getting put in unwinnable games is not my idea of a good time.
lost 3 in a row after hitting 2497
1 thrower
2 lvl50 mercy main who thought he knows how to play mcree with only 1hour total play time
3 solo healing + dps party

never lost 3+ games in a row from 23xx to 2497, but yea.. i dont know what to say.
this is 2nd time this season, where I was 1 win away from Plat, only to get on losing streak.
dont think its forced losses, just the match making logic is broken....

lots of constructive suggestion have been offered on the forums, but no feedback received from the OW Team.

I understand there are toxic players, I understand that the developers do not want the player base to jump the gun when they offer feedback, but I think the developers are overlooking the fact that most players are just plain frustrated with the lackluster match making system. Couple with the fact that alot of players put in alot of thoughts to offer suggestions to improve the system, but the lack of responses is extremely discouraging.

The initial fear for the improved punishment system also seems to be wearing off, and the toxicity is coming back in waves.

I really like the core gameplay of this game, and so are a lot of other players, but its harder and hader to wanting to come back.
10/09/2017 03:03 PMPosted by Stebung
10/06/2017 11:24 AMPosted by xsun
...The problem is, if MM works as we imagined:
1) the win streak should not existed at beginning. However there is people practiced a lot with another account, if you win a lot with winning rate 80%+, that is to say you should be in a other level.
2) Even this the system is not going to push you dramatically, it should be gradually journey. There should be winning rate 80% -> 70% -> 60% -> 50% -> 40% -> 50% something like this. (not 80% -> 20%.) In this case you should not have losing streak.
3) As you said because someone got luck and positioned higher than she/he should be, even this he/she should not have very long losing streak.
conclusion: If the MM system works as we imagined (no as intended :P), we should not have very long losing/winning streak. The MM system is created to eliminate the streak not create it.

The reliability of the performance MMR/SR is in question from the beginning.

A lot of problem would be solved if they didn't choose to use performance based SR for a TEAM game.

DPS cannot perform well without tanks blocking and healers healing for them.

Tanks cannot stay alive to perform if DPS don't return fire and healers heal them.

Healers cannot perform if tanks and DPS don't protect them from flankers.

Every class is dependent on each other, it makes no sense to have a SR system based on performance.

That's why the win/loss streaks you mentioned happens. People are being placed all over the place.

But it has nothing to do with matchmaker. Everyone is getting bad matches. And people climbed despite that. So yes some people get unlucky streaks, but it's problem with bad MMR/SR system not rating people properly, so matchmaking seems completely random, on top of that, the lack of any hero/role preference does not help either.


YES! I've been saying this every way I know how but getting down voted because logic is too hard here, people would like to get emotional and complain that Blizzard is out to get them.

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