D.va's Defense & Durability as a Tank; Input & Suggestions

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Since the patch D.va huge glaring flaw is her defense. There was a pinned post discussing her issues but I'm not sure what resulted from it. Any D.va discussion has been overshadowed nowadays by nerf junk rat, kill mercy's rez, and why did Jeff Kaplan troll us with don't shoot a reflecting genji.

I'd like d.va players to sound off and get some constructive suggestions and input.

I'd like to see something like recoverable armor since she's in a meka, ala zarya and sym.

My only other question is where does blizzard see d.va going. She's not the same tank she was and now she's more offensive in return.
Newest D.va is best D.va yet
inb4; "DVA HAS PRO PICKRATES" "SHE IS NOT MAIN TANK SHE A OFF TANK" comments. Alright now with that out of the way, my here are my thoughts on D.va.

10/28/2017 01:42 PMPosted by Crestren
I'd agree that D.va should be tankier as shes more DPS than tank but the problem with her previous 'tank' was that it strayed too far from what she originally was, an aggressive dive tank like Winston. Aka, she wasnt supposed to be defensive, but the nerf in Jan and the DM change soon after rectified that. She was a bully tank, then changed to a defensive tank, then back to how she originally was but less tankier.

But you do have a point as they basically nerfed two of her tanking aspects; armor and DM, yet still expect her as a tank?Not only that but her massive critbox plays no favor towards her especially since DM and armor are nerfed. You ever think that she had high armor for a specific reason? It was to balance out how massive it was. I think this post summarizes it pretty well.

10/25/2017 10:28 AMPosted by JohnnyOxide

D.Va's kit had synergy around her crit point.

She could use her high mobility to get in close to an enemy and do high damage with her cannons, but doing this exposed her weakness to that enemy. Defense Matrix (which was still a click at this point) was there to cover her approach. Her armor was there so that she could stand up to the incoming fire of the enemy team while boosting.

This was the 'bully' aspect of D.Va. She would either force the enemy she flew up on to run away or be chewed up by her cannons. If SHE chose to chase after to secure a kill, that would put her at risk since her armor and Matrix would be used up by then. The safer option was for her to withdraw and heal. That's where the commensurate risk/reward came in.

Making Matrix a toggle upset this dynamic because she could shield herself indefinitely and it took away much of the risk of her chasing people down.

The developers attempted to fix this by gutting her armor. This just made people rely on Matrix ALL THE TIME, play D.Va defensively and play her as a "Matrix Bot".
D.Va players TOLD THEM this would happen, and they didn't listen.

So the developers doubled down and nerfed Matrix (which is what they should have done instead of gutting her armor).

Now we have D.Va, who's supposed to be a tank, without armor, without a strong defensive ability, still keeping the centralized hit box. Just now she gets periodic bursts of moderate damage, but gets annihilated herself under enemy fire.

She's in a state NOBODY asked for.


And heres a visual video for what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2Vs-VK35RE&t=0s

@3:30 explains about the critbox while at @6:30 shows how squishy she is compared to other tanks. And id like to suggest something down below.

10/27/2017 10:44 AMPosted by NoOne

would be nice if micro missiles switched to a low damage small aoe slow as an anti personal grenade.


Im bringing this up because realistically, we cant have burst damage and have tankiness altogether with mobility, but if we can change missiles into another effective and useful way that can sync better with her primary fire, it would be great. One thing I would note is that with this change it can help drive off flankers away (because we need more counters to a certain duo) and help protect her team from them or disrupt enemy team when diving instead of always melting squishies.

In summary, D.va is more DPS rather than a tank. Even her launch version had some tanking aspect that wasnt DM focused thanks to the armor. Her damage is fine, her tankiness? Take a look at the garbage bin outback. She needs some armor back, a critbox reduction and a possible missiles QoL changes.
11/02/2017 09:55 AMPosted by Crestren
inb4; "DVA HAS PRO PICKRATES" "SHE IS NOT MAIN TANK SHE A OFF TANK" comments. Alright now with that out of the way, my here are my thoughts on D.va.

10/28/2017 01:42 PMPosted by Crestren
I'd agree that D.va should be tankier as shes more DPS than tank but the problem with her previous 'tank' was that it strayed too far from what she originally was, an aggressive dive tank like Winston. Aka, she wasnt supposed to be defensive, but the nerf in Jan and the DM change soon after rectified that. She was a bully tank, then changed to a defensive tank, then back to how she originally was but less tankier.

But you do have a point as they basically nerfed two of her tanking aspects; armor and DM, yet still expect her as a tank?Not only that but her massive critbox plays no favor towards her especially since DM and armor are nerfed. You ever think that she had high armor for a specific reason? It was to balance out how massive it was. I think this post summarizes it pretty well.

...

And heres a visual video for what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2Vs-VK35RE&t=0s

@3:30 explains about the critbox while at @6:30 shows how squishy she is compared to other tanks. And id like to suggest something down below.

...

Im bringing this up because realistically, we cant have burst damage and have tankiness altogether with mobility, but if we can change missiles into another effective and useful way that can sync better with her primary fire, it would be great. One thing I would note is that with this change it can help drive off flankers away (because we need more counters to a certain duo) and help protect her team from them or disrupt enemy team when diving instead of always melting squishies.

In summary, D.va is more DPS rather than a tank. Even her launch version had some tanking aspect that wasnt DM focused thanks to the armor. Her damage is fine, her tankiness? Take a look at the garbage bin outback. She needs some armor back, a critbox reduction and a possible missiles QoL changes.


More of this please. Any input that got lost due to all the nonsense polluting the forums can be piggy backed here! Thanks for the input.

A lot of the points you bring up I agree with. She's in flux right now and I hope she gets addressed soon.
IMO she should get 100/400 back for defense instead of 400/200. Roadhog should be the only character with 600 health.
11/02/2017 10:16 AMPosted by Crusher48
IMO she should get 100/400 back for defense instead of 400/200. Roadhog should be the only character with 600 health.

Don't forget he has a hp recovery ability that reduces damage taken.
Crestren I wholeheartedly agree. with the later stuff, I used to main D.Va from December till August when everyone figured out that Dm was extremely powerful and then to counter the DM I used Orisa even though she was considered weak. the reason is I could force the D.Va to waste DM and afterwards with her slow movement and large crit box I had no trouble killing her for outside of her guns effective range and this alone gave us an advantage over the other team. while I never played original D.Va I do know that 400 armor 200 hp D.Va was not as overpowered as some say. for her t bully every one she needed a healer on her 24/7 not just a zen orb as that was not enough healing. after the nerf she was entirely reliant on Dm for any tanking as a single burst from tracers pistols would remove the armor layer and 1.5 more would kill her. I know as I used this tactic to de-mech good D.Vas as it is hard to keep a blinking tracer Dmed. Then they gutted DM wile changes needed this is where our opinions start to differ. I feel that the single us DM was wast full as a 4 sec ability while the toggle could be used more efficiently. one way that might be able to fix both problems is to modify armor as a whole it is currently effective on only 4-5 characters while in the effective ranges. not even tracer is fully affected by armor until 13 m where her damage drop off is. if the armor was effective until 15 hp this would help 4 heroes that are currently in need of a little assistance. secondly, i would change Dm to 4 one sec charges or 8 .5 sec charges the will have a recharge rate of 2sec DM/5sec recharge with a .5 sec cooldown between activations. the will fix the inefficiency of the one-off and the near permanence of the toggle while your Idea for the missiles is good I would remove them in exchange of tightening the spread on her guns which are only effective at 5 m on 200 hp heroes and 10m on every else but D.Va and RoadHog (not accounting for the fall off at 10m which will cut the DPS in half).

Tldr
-good post I agree
- buff armor
- convert DM into charges/remove the post-Jan nerf DM buffs
- remove missals and fix the guns (we have been complaining about them since the nerf and they were never that great)
and by buff armor I mean in general not just D.Va's armor but she needs more
I had a ton of fun with her, yeah the suit dies quick but no other hero can save your healer from flankers and go kill out of position supports at the same time. Very engaging to play I'd say and easy to do well with.
Only downside is she is a pretty good ult charge for the enemy. :7
11/02/2017 10:31 AMPosted by spiritof76

Tldr
-good post I agree
- buff armor
- convert DM into charges/remove the post-Jan nerf DM buffs
- remove missals and fix the guns (we have been complaining about them since the nerf and they were never that great)


It's a dang shame when you gotta be baby d.va to do long range, consistent, effective damage.

I think charges would be a great idea, ala doomfist. He gains armor for using his abilities. She should gain more length in matrix as a result.

I like missiles but i'd be okay with a trade off if it a applied a slow debuff in return for a damage reduction so it's not super busted, something like McCree's stun grenade.
11/02/2017 10:45 AMPosted by Siamawich
It's a dang shame when you gotta be baby d.va to do long range, consistent, effective damage.


I know right I de-meched a D.Va as Mini D.Va and how i did it was i shot her out side of the range of her glitter guns it was pathetic.
11/02/2017 11:32 AMPosted by spiritof76
11/02/2017 10:45 AMPosted by Siamawich
It's a dang shame when you gotta be baby d.va to do long range, consistent, effective damage.


I know right I de-meched a D.Va as Mini D.Va and how i did it was i shot her out side of the range of her glitter guns it was pathetic.


the d.va player probably didn't see you as well. her field of vision and attack is so limited to straight ahead. She's got that huge crit box so you can take damage from all sides and not know it.
it is limited the other player saw me but I was outside of effective booster range and she had already used most of her DM + I was on the cart but I was alone (it was quick play)
Remove the micro missiles and increase her armour to make her an offensive tank.

Remove the micro missiles and revert the defense matrix change (or buff its recharge time or some other aspect of it)

Or they could do something that rewards active play and for X damage dealt you gain X charge on Defense matrix, but increase its maximum cap. The abiltiies could both be placed on longer cooldowns and have "For every 500 damage blocked with defense matrix, decrease micro missiles cooldown" and "For every rocket hit on an enemy, increase the resource meter of defense matrix by 0.2s" (Suggested numbers, it would need to be balanced better)
I think so far most d.va players want something that rewards being active in compensation of having a longer duration for DM. But is it a easier said then done thing for D.va?

I think something like charges as mentioned here would be good. 1 charge could = .25 a sec or something like that. She only has abilities and two that could contribute to it.

Oh yeah also. Bump and Happy blizzcon weekend! Enjoy your fave games!
D.Va doesn't need a buff, she has a high pickrate at all levels of play.
They could also try to make her DM some kinda kirby thing where the amount of dmg eaten is returned via her rockets to make the rockets less...underwhelming. It wouldn't make her more tanky, but at least the rockets would potentially be good then.
11/03/2017 09:10 AMPosted by LionRoar
D.Va doesn't need a buff, she has a high pickrate at all levels of play.

IKR...smh

11/03/2017 09:15 AMPosted by Endlave
They could also try to make her DM some kinda kirby thing where the amount of dmg eaten is returned via her rockets to make the rockets less...underwhelming. It wouldn't make her more tanky, but at least the rockets would potentially be good then.


^ that's a novel idea but it would lean to her being more offensive and we are playing a tank

What could work if whatever is absorbed is converted into some bonus armor.
11/03/2017 09:54 AMPosted by Siamawich

11/03/2017 09:15 AMPosted by Endlave
They could also try to make her DM some kinda kirby thing where the amount of dmg eaten is returned via her rockets to make the rockets less...underwhelming. It wouldn't make her more tanky, but at least the rockets would potentially be good then.


^ that's a novel idea but it would lean to her being more offensive and we are playing a tank

What could work if whatever is absorbed is converted into some bonus armor.


I like the idea but I dont think i'd work with D.va especially the mechanics of DM itself. The moment a projectile comes in contact with DM, it gets deleted as Dva fires lasers at the projectiles. Plus, absorbing damage is Zarya's thing so.

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