Group of one-tricks beats actual pros in comp match

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This is a pretty lopsided example that proves a different point than you think it does. Let's compare:

  • The "OT" team has 6 GMs at a team rating of 4330 versus 5 GMs and 1 Master at a team rating of 4205. It was mentioned in an interview with Blizzard that high level players (GM/T500) feel that even SR differences of only a few hundred points within their own skill tier is too much of a skill gap for an even game, so they are automatically at a considerable disadvantage.
  • The "OT" team has a group of 5 with one solo player, and they are communicating with each other constantly. The 5 stack is clearly good at working together, and the constant communication is a large part of that. The opposing team has a 2-stack, a 5-stack and a solo player. We do not see their side to see how well they communicated, but one can safely assume that a lack of playing experience together factors in heavily, as it does in everyone's daily matches.


There are a few observations that can be made from this match:

  • The SR rating system correctly determined the favorite and the underdog. The lower rated team (opponents) were handily beaten by the higher rated team (One-tricks).
  • All players involved are incredibly skilled no matter how many heroes they play. This point was never in doubt in regards to Fuey500 and this video only reinforces that fact for all parties involved.
  • When something is working, stick with it. The OT team's "off-meta" picks clearly worked for the situation they were in, so swapping was not necessary.
    All hero picks should be given a chance before changes are made.
  • And last, but not least, almost as if Blizzard had said it themselves a few days ago: Teamwork, communication and coordination are the key to winning a team-oriented game. I do find it funny that the OT team actually notices that they have excluded their solo Zenyatta from their communication, and that he has been speaking to them as if they were actually in team chat. Considering that the ban was for a lack of communication and coordination with teammates,
    it is a bad look to not take the high road and involve that player in all discussions.


So, in conclusion, plenty of points are illustrated in this video, but certainly not that any pick is good in any situation.
11/14/2017 10:42 AMPosted by FriendlyFire
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox91-xAdeno

Did it with bastion and symmetra on king of the hill.

How much evidence is needed for people to stop believing the pro-meta is required to win in competitive queue? Or will no amount matter as they dogmatically stick to their beliefs?
Dude no one is saying that the meta is required to win in competitive queue, what people are saying is you shouldn't one trick in solo queue because you're going to upset 5 people if you start getting countered and refuse to play anything else.
11/14/2017 10:55 AMPosted by skudoops
One tricking isn't even the issue, it's one tricking and REFUSING TO CHANGE OR LISTEN WHEN IT IS NOT WORKING.

I cannot believe this has to be said so many times.
so one tricking lol

Also Blizz WTF HAPPENED TO THE MOBILE VIEW EVERYTHING IS BOLDED
11/14/2017 12:56 PMPosted by TheReinhardt
11/14/2017 10:55 AMPosted by skudoops
One tricking isn't even the issue, it's one tricking and REFUSING TO CHANGE OR LISTEN WHEN IT IS NOT WORKING.

I cannot believe this has to be said so many times.
so one tricking lol

Also Blizz WTF HAPPENED TO THE MOBILE VIEW EVERYTHING IS BOLDED


No the problem isn't the one tricking itself, it's that you refuse to change even when being countered. You can still try to have one character you play every single match, every single comp, every single map/rotation but once it isn't working if you keep playing that character, despite being heavily countered and not having an impact, you are throwing the game.

The end of the day the 1 tricking isn't the problem, it's the effect, the eventual throw when the 1 trick is countered, that's the problem.
11/14/2017 01:30 PMPosted by skudoops
No the problem isn't the one tricking itself, it's that you refuse to change even when being countered.


I think the bigger issue is who gets to decide when you are being "countered"? It makes me uncomfortable thinking that a vocal guy on my team can decide that my hero is getting countered too hard in his estimation, and I have to change to make him happy or risk getting banned.

11/14/2017 01:30 PMPosted by skudoops
The end of the day the 1 tricking isn't the problem, it's the effect, the eventual throw when the 1 trick is countered, that's the problem.


I'm not going to call out names, but most of us have seen the clip by now of one semi famous streamer freaking out about the "one trick" and saying horrible things in chat, and then choosing the one tricks hero so they couldn't have it. The one trick (who got banned) simply played Reinhardt instead and went about the game, while the antagonist spewed more corrosive stuff in chat while playing the hero that is supposedly the problem in the first place. Who got banned? The one trick. The victim got the blame, the bully got rewarded, and if anyone was throwing it was the bully.
<span class="truncated">...</span>so one tricking lol

Also Blizz WTF HAPPENED TO THE MOBILE VIEW EVERYTHING IS BOLDED


No the problem isn't the one tricking itself, it's that you refuse to change even when being countered. You can still try to have one character you play every single match, every single comp, every single map/rotation but once it isn't working if you keep playing that character, despite being heavily countered and not having an impact, you are throwing the game.

The end of the day the 1 tricking isn't the problem, it's the effect, the eventual throw when the 1 trick is countered, that's the problem.


What if I'm a flex player then? Eventually there's gonna be a game where no matter what hero I switch to I'm going to be countered to the ground into a miserable pile of uselessness.

Should I deserve to be banned for that? I effectively threw the game despite playing to what I thought was my best efforts to win. I mean I guess I should be banned for it because that's what one tricks do as well.

Hell, perhaps the right choice was to stick to the first hero that was considered countered and maybe things would've gone better later in the match if I didn't listen to my teammates constantly repeating how much my hero is being countered and that I should switch off or be reported for poor teamwork.

Things aren't so black and white as a lot of people want them to be. Having the one trick arbitrarily switch when you perceive them as being countered can make the situation worse than if they stayed on their one trick hero. Or it could've made it better, who knows? Pressing "H" to switch isn't some magical button that'll guarantee you a better chance at winning.

Who are you to decide whether or not someone is throwing the game based on subjectively emotional conclusions whipped up in the heat of a match?
Team Canada did run a bastion and a torb in the World Cup. It was pretty glorious.

Teamwork makes the dream work.
11/14/2017 12:42 PMPosted by omnic
11/14/2017 12:29 PMPosted by Dharma
...

5 people need to learn your play style?
Are you using a mic and letting them know your play style so you can more effectively call plays with the other 5?
No?


The irony of people that only play 1 character saying anybody else is inflexible is too great.

Yeah, the symm one trick refusing to ever switch is super flexible over the person that plays multiple roles.
yeah come on. if you queue into sym one trick #3994 you've gotta be kosher with the attack tele strat or you're selfish!

what do you mean we have no tanks? don't look at me, I only play one hero xd
11/14/2017 01:51 PMPosted by NoLifeGamin
...

No the problem isn't the one tricking itself, it's that you refuse to change even when being countered. You can still try to have one character you play every single match, every single comp, every single map/rotation but once it isn't working if you keep playing that character, despite being heavily countered and not having an impact, you are throwing the game.

The end of the day the 1 tricking isn't the problem, it's the effect, the eventual throw when the 1 trick is countered, that's the problem.


What if I'm a flex player then? Eventually there's gonna be a game where no matter what hero I switch to I'm going to be countered to the ground into a miserable pile of uselessness.

Should I deserve to be banned for that? I effectively threw the game despite playing to what I thought was my best efforts to win. I mean I guess I should be banned for it because that's what one tricks do as well.

Hell, perhaps the right choice was to stick to the first hero that was considered countered and maybe things would've gone better later in the match if I didn't listen to my teammates constantly repeating how much my hero is being countered and that I should switch off or be reported for poor teamwork.

Things aren't so black and white as a lot of people want them to be. Having the one trick arbitrarily switch when you perceive them as being countered can make the situation worse than if they stayed on their one trick hero. Or it could've made it better, who knows? Pressing "H" to switch isn't some magical button that'll guarantee you a better chance at winning.

Who are you to decide whether or not someone is throwing the game based on subjectively emotional conclusions whipped up in the heat of a match?


Why would you be banned after you listened to the team and tried changing it up?

And yes you can tell if that zero headshot widow is doing anything just by the kill feed and lack of fire.

Basically no picks + bunch of deaths to d.va/winston etc = Please change you are being ineffective.
Team Canada did run a bastion and a torb in the World Cup. It was pretty glorious.

Teamwork makes the dream work.


Professional OW team with has practiced using bastion/torb strats vs random solo queue team. Seems like a legitimate comparison.
11/14/2017 12:51 PMPosted by Poytheon
11/14/2017 10:42 AMPosted by FriendlyFire
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox91-xAdeno

Did it with bastion and symmetra on king of the hill.

How much evidence is needed for people to stop believing the pro-meta is required to win in competitive queue? Or will no amount matter as they dogmatically stick to their beliefs?
Dude no one is saying that the meta is required to win in competitive queue, what people are saying is you shouldn't one trick in solo queue because you're going to upset 5 people if you start getting countered and refuse to play anything else.

That's wrong .. You gonna upset 5 people because they all 5 want to play dps. If you're one tricking tank or healer no one will say a word.
11/15/2017 11:58 AMPosted by skudoops
Team Canada did run a bastion and a torb in the World Cup. It was pretty glorious.

Teamwork makes the dream work.


Professional OW team with has practiced using bastion/torb strats vs random solo queue team. Seems like a legitimate comparison.


That sounds like there should be MORE Bastion/Torbs so that everyone can get used to playing with them effectively.
11/15/2017 11:58 AMPosted by skudoops
Professional OW team with has practiced using bastion/torb strats vs random solo queue team. Seems like a legitimate comparison.
So, how did they practice? Did the whole team practice Torb and Bastion? Or just specific players? Inquiring minds want to know. Did they get the same team member to play Torb each time they practiced? Isn't that like a player that plays Tor...nevermind.
k.

one video, where a stack beat a bunch of randoms that happened to have 2 pros that were not even trying from what I could see.

show me a video of 6 torb 1-tricks vs 6 pros, both sides actually trying.
11/14/2017 02:03 PMPosted by Miscanadian
Team Canada did run a bastion and a torb in the World Cup. It was pretty glorious.

Teamwork makes the dream work.


dont know about the bastion match, didnt see that one, but the torb match was a clear throw, they had given up and were just putting on a pitiful show.
E-sports hurts the game because it inadvertently enforced a meta.
Who will the regular players look up to to become better at the game? Pros.
Pros run a set of specific heroes because it works best with their playstyle and strategy now what do you have? Players thinking that the heroes pros use are the most optimal way to play the game and climb ranks.

This is what's hurting the one tricks/off-meta players because apparently they're not allowed to touch the game if they don't play Genji or 76 or Tracer or Winston, else they get suspended or even banned. This is what's hurting the game's balance, this is also the root cause of bad behavior because if they don't see you run meta heroes they think you're throwing the game.
11/14/2017 10:45 AMPosted by Zeleros
Because meta slaves will always be just that, meta slaves

The more intelligent and creative people will triumph in the end


Thats a very contradicting statement because one-tricks I would not see as creative as you can only play a single hero, making you less versitle than meta players. I play flex so I go in between meta and non-meta heros
11/15/2017 12:31 PMPosted by TinyTauren
11/14/2017 10:45 AMPosted by Zeleros
Because meta slaves will always be just that, meta slaves

The more intelligent and creative people will triumph in the end


Thats a very contradicting statement because one-tricks I would not see as creative as you can only play a single hero, making you less versitle than meta players. I play flex so I go in between meta and non-meta heros


One tricks are those who're tired of people pushing what they want with them.
11/14/2017 10:48 AMPosted by Deus
You think 1 game is enough data to close this debate? No.


Prolike Chro actually has multiple videos on his channel called "the worst comp" or something similar, where he wins with off-meta team comps, some where he's in a group, some where it's just randoms that decided a 4-6 dps meta was the way to go
11/15/2017 12:37 PMPosted by Variann
11/14/2017 10:48 AMPosted by Deus
You think 1 game is enough data to close this debate? No.


Prolike Chro actually has multiple videos on his channel called "the worst comp" or something similar, where he wins with off-meta team comps, some where he's in a group, some where it's just randoms that decided a 4-6 dps meta was the way to go


he cherry picks matches, winning 1 in 100 does not make it viable.

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